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Old 03-30-08, 06:35 AM   #26
alecw35
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Heres the hub innards from my Grifter.
Theres one Pawl on top of there
a diamond shape bit.
Then you can see the other one rusted in place.
Took them both out and lubed them.
It works ok.
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Old 03-30-08, 08:43 AM   #27
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Just a thought: This line of SA Hub questioning/info. is obviously relevant to R20 owners/fiddlers, but for future referencing, it may be obscured by the thread it's developing in--perhaps it should be continued under a more findable, new heading. Something like "SA 3 speed overhaul questions"?

Also, other threads have begun to approach this stuff (i.e.-http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=348873&highlight=hub+sa) so it might be a good addition.

I'm glad you're talking about this stuff: I'd like to be more familiar with my AWs and any maintenance.
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Old 03-30-08, 09:53 AM   #28
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"Um, cuz that's what the cool kids ride..."
You hit the nail right on the head. Would there be as much interest if some of the great minds of cycling (Sheldon, Dave Gray etc.) and lesser lights like those of us on this list, hadn't set their hands to improving them?

When I bought my 1st R20 I didn't give any thought to why I wanted one. Thinking back, perhaps I wanted to join a worldwide club of like minded individuals.

In some ways, modding a 20 is an art form. Starting with the same basic canvas, we can take it anywhere our imaginations, skills and wallets will allow. At street rod events it's fun to look at all the various interpretations of the '32 Ford. I like the ones that look almost stock but have subtle improvements. That's probably why I still have the chainguard and chrome fenders on my 20. I think hopped up flathead V8s are way cooler than Hemis or small block Chevys. So, I've kept the cottered cranks and stuffed S5 guts in the AW shell instead of alloy cranks and a derailleur or Nexus.

There are many challenges to turning an R20 into something better and overcoming challenges is very satisfying. If all I wanted was a good, small bike I'd just put fenders and a rack on a Dahon Speed P8.
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Old 03-30-08, 10:00 AM   #29
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Just a thought: This line of SA Hub questioning/info. is obviously relevant to R20 owners/fiddlers, but for future referencing, it may be obscured by the thread it's developing in--perhaps it should be continued under a more findable, new heading. Something like "SA 3 speed overhaul questions"?
But would it belong in Folding bikes, Classic & Vintage or Bicycle Mechanics? I'd like to see a separate Forum for all things relating to hub gears. Including sales and wants for hubs, parts and tools.
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Old 03-30-08, 04:08 PM   #30
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If you (or Jur) had bothered to read the Fault Finding PDF that my file suggested that you download, you would see that this adjustment isn't even mentioned as a possible cause for this problem.
Oops, somehow I got the impression the hub was well lubed. I stand corrected.
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Old 03-30-08, 05:39 PM   #31
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MnHPVA Guy and alecw35 -

Thanks a lot for your input. I took apart the hub this evening, and the problem was exactly what you guys said it would be. The pawls were rusted into place. One of the pawl springs was broken too. I had to WD40 the pawls to get them to un-freeze. Then with a lot of cleaning, and some lubrication, I had it all cleaned again. I had to fashion a replacement spring, since the LBS is closed. It works very well for the moment. I'll have to get a couple of replacements soon.

Anyway, after a whole lot of cleaning, and some more lubing I put it back together.

I now have all the gears working well, thanks to you guys. I appreciate it.

That was the first time I'd ever opened one of these hubs, so the information I got from you guys (and from the other resources on the web) was invaluable.
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Old 03-30-08, 05:44 PM   #32
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Oh BTW, this bike was to be my wife's birthday present. She absolutely loves it!!

She's most taken with the vintage character of the bike.

I'm sort of jealous at the moment. I'm going to have to find another at a decent price. These bikes are addictive!!
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Old 03-30-08, 07:44 PM   #33
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Glad we could help.

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I'm going to have to find another at a decent price. These bikes are addictive!!
Where are you? I might have an R20 for sale in Minneapolis but I won't ship. I bought it for my wife. But she thinks just because she has a modded Moulton MkIII, a Robin Hood, a custom built mixte and custom built recumbent, plus the backs of 3 of our tandems, that she doesn't need another bike. She must be suffering from early onset dementia.

Last edited by MnHPVA Guy; 03-30-08 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 03-30-08, 08:12 PM   #34
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Hmm....I wish I was back in the midwest about now. I'm in Boston.

I quite understand about not wanting to deal with the hassles of shipping. However, if you change your mind I'm certainly interested in purchasing another 20.
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Old 03-30-08, 08:29 PM   #35
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But she thinks just because she has a modded Moulton MkIII, a Robin Hood, a custom built mixte and custom built recumbent, plus the backs of 3 of our tandems, that she doesn't need another bike. She must be suffering from early onset dementia.
ha ha, sig material!
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Old 03-31-08, 12:30 PM   #36
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always wanted a mark 3 moulton.
but had some F frames.
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Old 03-31-08, 01:06 PM   #37
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The Mk III was an F-Frame but with a triangulated swingarm. I also have a very ratty early Series 2 Deluxe that I was planning to cobble into a recumbent. But now I think turn it onto a stripped down Speed 9 with a modern cassette.
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Old 03-31-08, 03:14 PM   #38
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ha ha, sig material!
That's her list. Mine's quite a bit longer. Might create bandwidth issues for those on dial-up
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Old 03-31-08, 05:35 PM   #39
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Well the wife does not want me to change the fork/headset. She wants to keep the essence of the vintage Twenty as far as possible. In the interests of safety I insisted on keeping the new alloy wheel. I'll also have to figure out a way to improve front braking. The new Kool-Stop pads are fine, but not really good, because of the extra-long reach calipers. Maybe a new caliper (also long reach) will help.

Next part of the project is to clean out and wax the fenders and handlebars. There's some spotting on the outside of the fenders, but they are really rusted on the underside. It's going to take some work before I can seal and wax them. Some touch-up paint work will be next, then we're done.

Got to find one for myself that I can perhaps hot-rod.
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Old 04-01-08, 03:40 PM   #40
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"Incidentally, once folded, my bike rests quite steadily on the rear wheel and rack. Hasn't fallen over yet."

Yohannrjm: I've got the rack back on my twenty and cannot balance: the bottom of the stock Pletscher rack is sort of rounded and just doesn't do it. What kind of rack do you have?
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Old 04-01-08, 05:21 PM   #41
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I have the stock rack. But the bottom of mine is broad and flat. I don't have the fenders on, and I have the handlebars turned to counterbalance the front wheel.

Bear in mind that when I say it is steady, I mean that it won't fall over unless it is tipped. Since I store it in the basement it is out of the way.

If it keeps falling over you could just lean it against something. Remember, this won't work in a car or in any other useful situation anyway.
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Old 04-02-08, 03:12 AM   #42
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The Mk III was an F-Frame but with a triangulated swingarm. I also have a very ratty early Series 2 Deluxe that I was planning to cobble into a recumbent. But now I think turn it onto a stripped down Speed 9 with a modern cassette.
Oooh, if we're going to talk Moulton hot-rodding....

I'm going to do one of the Mini Moultons I have out with 305 wheels (apparently they'll fit), and a hub gear that'll get me nice high gearing at the top end. Ideally an SA8, but I have just laid my hands on an SRAM Elan 12, which works well ratio wise, but is reckoned to weigh a ton and be unreliable - we'll see when it arrives. On the "hub gear forum" front, I wish that too, since I would LOVE to find someone who has actually experienced the Elan 12, and who might be able to help me find a shifter for it.....
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Old 04-02-08, 11:35 AM   #43
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305 wheels
<snip>
SRAM Elan 12
Have you calculated the spoke length yet?
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Old 04-02-08, 12:06 PM   #44
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Well the wife does not want me to change the fork/headset. She wants to keep the essence of the vintage Twenty as far as possible.
Good for her.

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I'll also have to figure out a way to improve front braking. The new Kool-Stop pads are fine, but not really good, because of the extra-long reach calipers. Maybe a new caliper (also long reach) will help.
Tectro makes a sturdy looking dual pivot brake with a 1020 reach. However I don't believe anyone in the US imports it.

I'm planning to add braze-ons to a spare fork so I can use V-Brakes. But before I do, I want to try using a "Travel Agent" in reverse, to double cable tension. If the brake is stiff enough, but the ratio gain is too much, I can make a differential pulley with a little less difference.
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Old 04-02-08, 12:27 PM   #45
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Have you calculated the spoke length yet?
Nope. I don't even know what the flange diameter of the Elan is til it arrives. To say that information on that hub is sparse is not even to touch the surface of the truth!
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Old 04-02-08, 12:28 PM   #46
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Good for her.

Tectro makes a sturdy looking dual pivot brake with a 1020 reach. However I don't believe anyone in the US imports it.

I'm planning to add braze-ons to a spare fork so I can use V-Brakes. But before I do, I want to try using a "Travel Agent" in reverse, to double cable tension. If the brake is stiff enough, but the ratio gain is too much, I can make a differential pulley with a little less difference.
There are also a tidy set of dual pivots made by Alhonga that work, if you can find them. They even have the reach if you move to 406's.
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Old 04-02-08, 12:30 PM   #47
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yeah I realise the mark 3 is a f frame type of bike.
but the triangulated swing arm changes it from f shape a bit.

I used to be in the moulton owners club.

I found a 4 speed moulton 10 feet up a tree.
was wrapped in 2. But couldnt have been crashed there...as there was some trees in front.
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Old 04-02-08, 05:36 PM   #48
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Jagee - I went down and checked my Twenty. It stands because of the really uneven floor in my (unfinished) basement. I tried standing it up in a flat region, and it would not. I am a creature of habit, and I was placing it against a slightly raised portion of the floor. My rack is also slightly curved, but the uneven floor allows it to rest evenly.

So, actually it will not stand on the rack and wheel, except in exceptional circumstances.
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Old 04-03-08, 06:42 AM   #49
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So, actually it will not stand on the rack and wheel, except in exceptional circumstances.

Thanks for letting me know. I was head scratching for a little while... I'm thinking of building a compact, open box to fit my R20 into in the basement--something easy to slide it into when folded. Maybe I could use it for the car too. A stowing box.

I found a 4 speed moulton 10 feet up a tree.

Alecw35: Did you ever figure out what the bike was doing up in the tree? What an image!
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Old 04-03-08, 11:14 AM   #50
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Well to be honest the tree was in the railway cutting.

So the bike was at nornal height but since of the steep slope it was 10 feet up the tree.
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