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Old 04-09-08, 02:13 PM   #1
sahadev
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Sigh!! Time to sell my modded R20...

As some of you know I recently completed building out a Raleigh Twenty (pics here). It was great fun and IMHO the bike turned out well.

Unfortunately, having been unemployed for many months now, I need to sell this bike to pay a bill or two. It has been a great experience, one I will repeat in the future, but now it is time to find a new home for it.

The big question for me is, "What is it worth?" How do you price something like this? I have put a fair amount of money into it, but I do not really expect to recoup those expenses. I have never seen any bikes for sale with which to compare it. So I thought I would ask the knowledgeable folks here at the Folding Forum for their opinion and input.

Here are the specs:
Frame - 1974, everything replaced except folding bolt and nut; kickstand, chainguard clip and steering limiter removed; spray can enamel green and black, Nason clear coat
Rear wheel - SA8 hub (new) laced into BMX rim(used), 20x1.5 Kenda Kwest tire(used), tube(used)
Front wheel - Wheel hand built by Fleming w/ QR(new), 20x1.5 Schwalbe Marathon(new), tube(new)
BB - Shimano UN-72 68x113(used), Phil Wood retaining cups(new)
Crankset – CPI alloy 46T 175mm(new)
Pedals - System 1(inexpensive, used)
Chain - SRAM 1/8"x1/2"(new)
Brakes - Nashbar dual-pivot caliper(new) mounted on homemade drop bolt on rear w/ MTB lever(used), Tektro V-brake on front w/ own lever(used)
Cables - Jagwire(new)
Fork - Sun EZ Sport 20" recumbent fork(new)
Headset - Cane Creek S2(new)
Stem - Zoom, adjustable angle(new)
Bars - Flat bar(used) w/ bar ends if wanted
Seatpost - Kalloy 400mm(new)
Saddle - Foam/gel(definitely used!!)

What do you think? What could/should I sell it for? The sales venues that I have envisioned would be - this forum, Craigslist, eBay. Any others that I haven't thought of? More pics can be taken if needed. Any and all input and suggestions would be welcome.



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Old 04-09-08, 03:57 PM   #2
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I'm not sure how much you should ask for it, but you could probably get a better price if you finished it up by replacing the gel seat and adding cheap platform pedals and handgrips. That way it looks like a finished product and not a fixer-upper.
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Old 04-09-08, 05:48 PM   #3
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I am really sorry to hear about your woes. I hope that goes better very soon.

Not being in the US, I don't have a good feel for it's worth. But I agree, just get a cheapie saddle and some grips before advertising.

I would guess what with the 8sp hub etc, it should fetch above $500? Or something not too far from a roughly equivalent Downtube?
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Old 04-09-08, 05:52 PM   #4
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Sorry you have to sell - but there's always the delicious prospect of doing it all again with another one soon...

I concur with the above and add that a matching marathon reflector tyre at the rear might help with the sale too. It's a pain to add more cost before selling, but that old adage 'you have to spend a bit to make a bit' rings true - a bit like dressing a house for potential buyers.

It's hard to quantify 'worth' with these things - they are a niche bike and you'll likely never get back quite what you spent on it - kind of the same as restoring a cultish but generally unknown or unloved car; it's might be special to you but not to everyone. Restoring a rare sports car might be something where you get a return on your investment, and this I think would translate to a more desirable bike like a Moulton. But most people - certainly the people on these boards seem to like doing the build themselves so might not be your target market.

So who is? I think there is a market for such a nicely done bike - there is a demographic people like to get old things that have been restored properly that don't want to do it themselves, and billing it as a capable modernised utility bike should get you plenty of interest as long as the price you ask is realistic - ie less than a brand new Dahon with similar specs which is what will be on most people's radar as the pricepoint they'd like to undercut.

Good luck with the sale - you can always be happy in the knowledge you put another twenty back on the road and where it's meant to be - in use!
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Old 04-09-08, 06:00 PM   #5
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Hey sahadev,
I've been looking for one to hotrod for a while. While this is already a completed project, I'm still interested. Depending on the price, I may be able to purchase it. I am in Boston, however, so it will have to be shipped.

Unfortunately, I just bought a Raleigh Competition to fix up, so my purchasing power is limited at the moment. I am in the process of selling a couple of my bikes (space issues), so that may change. Still, you might be able to sell it for a good amount somewhere closer to you.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I hope they clear up soon.
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Old 04-09-08, 09:49 PM   #6
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Thanks for the feedback guys, it is appreciated. I do have a saddle, grips and pedals that I can put on, and I will give some thought to matching the tires. There is a swap meet in our area in a week or two that would be a good source for parts.

I will try CL first and see what kind of response I get. I am in the SF Bay Area, so there are a lot of fellow bikers and interest in bikes. The Twenties on CL in the past have sold quickly, but they were original condition, not modified.

$500 seems high, buy hey, I can always start high and find out what the market will bear. That still won't cover what I spent, but I have not been expecting to recoup my costs. I will post what I am able to sell it for.

yohannrjm - I am in the same boat as you are, I also have a Competition to assemble. I have all the parts ready to go. As soon as the R20 is gone I will put it on the block as well. I will PM you about pricing the R20. I would like to have it go to an appreciative home.
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Old 04-09-08, 10:04 PM   #7
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Best wishes to you. Hope you get back on track soon.
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Old 04-09-08, 10:41 PM   #8
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$500 seems high, buy hey, I can always start high and find out what the market will bear. That still won't cover what I spent, but I have not been expecting to recoup my costs. I will post what I am able to sell it for.
It may be; I thought of a Downtube 8sp. The R20 has some collector's value, even if not original, perhaps more so if already hot-rodded, plus it seems outfitted with same, equivalent or better parts than a Downtube.
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Old 04-11-08, 06:50 PM   #9
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I might be interested in that bike. I don nid no stinking bodges or saddles or peddles or handlebars either. I've already got spares. Too bad you're not in my area, though, ie southern Arizona. I don't know how to safely buy a bike like this by mail. I mean if I sent you money, who's to say I'll ever hear from you again? Nothing personal, but you're just a name on the internet. Perhaps others can advise me on how this is done - and maybe it's sold already anyway.

I've got my new single speed Swift. If I get this one, I'll have two 20" folders. I'll get a collection of 'em like my hero, Jur!

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Old 04-11-08, 07:59 PM   #10
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I might be interested in that bike. I don nid no stinking bodges or saddles or peddles or handlebars either. I've already got spares. Too bad you're not in my area, though, ie southern Arizona. I don't know how to safely buy a bike like this by mail. I mean if I sent you money, who's to say I'll ever hear from you again? Nothing personal, but you're just a name on the internet. Perhaps others can adviswe me on how this is done - and maybe it's sold already anyway.

I've got my new single speed Swift. If I get this one, I'll have two 20" folders. I'll get a collection of 'em like my hero, Jur!
I can vouch for him. I have had a transaction with Sahadev. He's an upstanding guy.
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Old 04-11-08, 08:21 PM   #11
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I've got my new single speed Swift. If I get this one, I'll have two 20" folders. I'll get a collection of 'em like my hero, Jur![/QUOTE]

watch out werewolf, this is how it starts, 1, then 2, then 18

as of yesterday, I am the proud owner of 3 folders counting>>

as far as buying bikes from the people on these forums, I have never had any problem and was always pleasantly surprised, for the most part, a bunch of good people
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Old 04-11-08, 08:35 PM   #12
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Thanks, Sesame. You know him personally I take it? Sahadev - is everything working good - like the rear brakes, the used bottom bracket, the hub gear?

Can anybody give me some insight about how I might like this bike compared to my new single speed Swift (which I like)? How does the weight compare? Is it suitable for a big guy like me - about 250 lbs. including clothes and some gear? I've been ogling those R20's on this forum, like on Jur's photo journals...
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Old 04-11-08, 08:42 PM   #13
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I like the look of the stem. Where are these sold? Need one for my Chzek (sp?) folder which is not on the road yet.
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Old 04-11-08, 09:06 PM   #14
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Thanks, Sesame. You know him personally I take it? .
I sold him a set of tires online. And he's the one who gave me the lead on the Moulton frame which I'm restoring. We're not social friends.

You'll be fine dealing with him.
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Old 04-11-08, 09:16 PM   #15
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I'll get a collection of 'em like my hero, Jur!






....i wish i was someone's hero....
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Old 04-11-08, 09:17 PM   #16
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Not hero material, I'm afraid... I just have a big mouth...
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Old 04-11-08, 09:18 PM   #17
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I've got my new single speed Swift. If I get this one, I'll have two 20" folders. I'll get a collection of 'em like my hero, Jur!
watch out werewolf, this is how it starts, 1, then 2, then 18

as of yesterday, I am the proud owner of 3 folders counting>>

as far as buying bikes from the people on these forums, I have never had any problem and was always pleasantly surprised, for the most part, a bunch of good people[/QUOTE]


What folders do you have, Doco? How do you think this bike compares with our new Swifts? Ha ha - is this the beginning of a mad folder addiction? Where's that psycho piano player from that 1930's perils-of-marijuana movie!?
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Old 04-11-08, 09:20 PM   #18
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Not hero material, I'm afraid... I just have a big mouth...
OK, but your photo journals are great - and you live in such an exotic part of the world - tho I guess it seems quite normal to you, living upside down and all.
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Old 04-11-08, 09:21 PM   #19
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....i wish i was someone's hero....


Location: Oz



OK, you're my hero, too!
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Old 04-11-08, 09:28 PM   #20
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Location: Oz



OK, you're my hero, too!






At last!!........ someone has noticed me





BTW, werewolf,

If Jur's achievements are true, he's one fit elderly gentleman
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Old 04-11-08, 11:09 PM   #21
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werewolf,

Everything works just fine on the bike. I am having Phil Wood retaining cups installed tomorrow.

The BB is used, from eBay, but feels good and solid. The rear brake is new from Nashbar, and the hub is new from AEBike.

Shipping is easy enough. There is a LBS that does a very good job. I can ask for a quote to ship to AZ if you are interested. I shipped a Mtn Bike to Washington state last fall and it was $65 for boxing and shipping.

PM me if you are interested and we can discuss this further.

Sesame, thanks for vouching for me, even though we've only met on the side of a deserted road at the scene of an accident. Now I'll have to help with the Moulton! It's a tough job, but somebody has to do it.
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Old 04-12-08, 10:53 AM   #22
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I might be interested in that bike. I don nid no stinking bodges or saddles or peddles or handlebars either. I've already got spares. Too bad you're not in my area, though, ie southern Arizona. I don't know how to safely buy a bike like this by mail. I mean if I sent you money, who's to say I'll ever hear from you again? Nothing personal, but you're just a name on the internet. Perhaps others can advise me on how this is done - and maybe it's sold already anyway.

I've got my new single speed Swift. If I get this one, I'll have two 20" folders. I'll get a collection of 'em like my hero, Jur!
Paypal is a good way to handle transactions over the net. You set up an account and pay with a credit card. The other person sets up an account and recieves the money through Paypal. If you never see the bike, you can stop payment or contest it like you could a credit card.
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Old 04-12-08, 10:54 AM   #23
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Sounds good, Sahadev. I'd like to have a geared bike in addition to my present single speed. Unfortunately, this place has been down a lot lately, and I'm waiting for some feedback for my questions about how the R20 compares with my Swift, and whether there are any weight restrictions on it. Jur, you have both the Swift and the R20. Can you give me some spiritual advice on this subject? I've got to head north to Phoenix now. I'm going for a quick bike ride first. When will I be at a computer next? Tomorrow I guess...
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Old 04-12-08, 09:01 PM   #24
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Sounds good, Sahadev. I'd like to have a geared bike in addition to my present single speed. Unfortunately, this place has been down a lot lately, and I'm waiting for some feedback for my questions about how the R20 compares with my Swift, and whether there are any weight restrictions on it. Jur, you have both the Swift and the R20. Can you give me some spiritual advice on this subject? I've got to head north to Phoenix now. I'm going for a quick bike ride first. When will I be at a computer next? Tomorrow I guess...
The R20 doesn't have weight restrictions in the modern sense, it is 'just' steel.

Compare... that's hard. My Swift is my light-weight go-fast, while the R20 is my commuter workhorse, quite heavy (about 17kg). So they are not at all in the same category. The R20 feels very solid, dependable, but that is so dependant on what you do with it while building it up. Perhaps the easiest thing to say is the frame is solid as, no flexing, nothing. It can take punishment.

The best part of the R20 is thw creative part and the pleasure of riding something while having cult status is totally unique.
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Old 04-14-08, 01:48 PM   #25
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Thanks, Jur.

DLBroox - You can contest a PayPal payment just like a credit card? I didn't know that. I know very little about PayPal. As I just told Sahadev by email, it's a hassle setting up a new PayPal account. I had one before, but rarely used it, and then it stopped working for no known reason, so I'm setting up a new one now, or trying to anyway. Apparently it takes at least several days to do that. That seems odd these days of instant electronic payments, doesn't it?
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