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Old 04-29-08, 01:51 PM   #1
LittlePixel
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My Raleigh Twenty/650c

Over the next n months I'll be boring the pants off you guys with morsels from my next build - a non-folding Raleigh Twenty frame I picked up for £4.99 GBP last year that's destined to become some sort of road-bike with possibly 650c (ISO 571mm) wheels, or if that's too tall and order, 559mm (MTB) or 520mm sized wheels.

So this will be the thread that I'll be adding stuff to as and when it happens. At present all I have done is source a 24" fork, grid off the bridges, stays and shorten the lower head-tube so the front of the bike doesn't get too high with bigger wheels. And remove the paint with a blow-lamp (thanks Jur!).



So here she is - naked as the day she was born up in Nottingham. Primer is just to stop the rust. I plan to get into the car-body filler next - smooth out a few of those seams, dings, scrapes... maybe even fair-in the bigger welds. Then it's component sourcing. I'm thinking period Campagnolo record at the moment, to turn her into a 7-speed derailleur fun-machine. Never really liked front derailleurs and seven is plenty I'm sure.

Once that's done it'll be time build some wheels (possibly in 'pursuit' style - 650 back, 520 front) and see where I need to get a new brake bridge brazed on. And also where to put the pesky tube-shifter. Then paint, possibly by yours truly if his 80s Devilbiss Airbrush can be coaxed into life, then clearcoat, build, ride, smile...

Of course - it won't be that easy or straightforward. It never is. I predict 68% of parts I find don't fit. That's what happened last time. Anyway - I hope you enjoy following the build. If I ever finish it...

Artist's impression(s) of possible finishes here:

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Old 04-29-08, 03:42 PM   #2
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Really look forward to seeing you build it up--looks like you're well on your way.
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Old 04-29-08, 04:49 PM   #3
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Gentlemen, Start your boners...


Yes... Finally, we get to see a bike styling master at work! Do your Thang Lil'pix!

R-20's
: They give me WOOD!

come check the progress...
http://web.mac.com/phatatude/Green_S...enty_Blog.html
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Old 04-29-08, 07:36 PM   #4
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This will be fun to watch!

<gets popcorn, lines up a nice seat>

BTW: What's the secret Dr. Jur blow-lamp paint removal trick? For that matter, what's a blow-lamp in Yankee English?
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Old 04-29-08, 07:55 PM   #5
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowtorch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_gun

LP: I like the 2nd pic's style better... except I have come to like stems that are perfectly horizontal. So all 3 my folders have them. Somehow it complements the forward flowing lines better.
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Old 04-30-08, 01:02 AM   #6
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What about a braze on mount for the front deraileur.

Be nice if you welded a gear hanger to the drop out too.
Or even remove the rear drop outs and moved the chainstays so they place the BB at the proper height for the 650 wheels

could also make it so the frame angles. Steering and seat tube are at more racy angles.

since you would be running 3 cables through the frame. What about cutting a hole in the frame then screwing a plate on there. So its easier to install the cables. And the plate could have ferrules in it so the gear cables come out as the inner wire. Then a under BB plastic cable guide.
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Old 04-30-08, 05:45 AM   #7
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@ Phatatude: I'm just a guy with a bike and Photoshop you know... Mind you don't give me an ego problem!

@ Sesame Crunch: Propane can with flamethrowing nozzle on the top + Wire brush. Point; wait till paint bubbles then rub down like a swedish sauna.

@ Jur - The 'track stem on the first stem is too much I agree. Looks cool on a track bike but I don't think I'd go that direction either - I like a nice straight one too - and quill if possible. I don't think an Ahead would suit the pseudo retro look on this one.

@alecw35 - All good stuff yeah - I wish I had the facilities to do my own brazing as your hanger and dropout suggestions are spot on. I'm a little less sure of the big changes you suggest. I think it might be easier to actually fabricate from new to make a frame with the bigger changes you suggest.

Thanks for your kind words guys - More news when I have it.
Quick question - does anyone know if an old Campag crank (square tapered) would fit ok onto a new Shimano BB. I'm toying with the idea of trying a Campag axle with the raleigh cups but this - naturally - may not be a goer.
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Old 04-30-08, 10:38 AM   #8
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Ive got a campag athena crank on my Raleigh flyer racer. The cranks from the early 90s. I didnt get the bb with it. So fitted it to the shortest BB axle I had, is a cup and cone BB. It sits away from the frame. As campag use short BB axles. I have got a campag axle now. But havent fitted it yet. Have only been up and down the road on it so far. It seems solid with no creaking.
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Old 04-30-08, 04:20 PM   #9
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Nice Art Work!

I like the the Red team paint scheme, and it is most appropriate for the '70s vintage frame.
Still trying to understand how you would fashion a faux chrome head lug with rear triangle to match.

The Panasonic colors look very nice too, but to me they link to the 80's
A particularly nice thought to remember Sheldon in the details.

Agree with Jur regarding the horizontal stem or perhaps a few degrees upward. In actual practice , consider a "north road" bar in a shallow drop configuration. I recently went to a conventional drop bar on Five-Twenty and it doesn't agree with me at all.

--Retro Guy
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Old 04-30-08, 11:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phatatude View Post
Gentlemen, Start your boners...


Yes... Finally, we get to see a bike styling master at work! Do your Thang Lil'pix!

R-20's
: They give me WOOD!

come check the progress...
http://web.mac.com/phatatude/Green_S...enty_Blog.html
Hey now! There are some things best not shared.. I'm talking about the "wood" thing of course..
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Old 05-20-08, 02:20 PM   #11
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Yes less talk of morning wood plz!

Okay so here's an update; I got hold of some wheels for some test fitting; a pair of 520s from an Airnimal and a 650c for the rear; I think this may work well - the rear might be better with teeny-bit-smaller 26" mountain size as I think I can source matching Panaracer tyres and Velocity rims for the two disparate sizes that way. Anyone that follows my bike posts must know that something like that really matters to me!

So here's some pix. There's a pair of flipped north-road bars for spice (though I don't intend to use that stem) and a couple of test bridges made by dremelling a Berol pen tube to fit.

What's next? Hmm... Sourcing parts is all a bit Catch 22; Can't decide on BB solution and width till I work out what the optimum chainlines are; Can't do that without the right rear hub, etc etc... Need to get some brake calipers to sure up the bridge placement and then get the lot off to someplace that will braze them on along with some cage bosses, derailleur boss(es?) and perhaps where they can chrome the dropouts and forks. Lots and lots still to do then but I'm not in a rush; Looking forward to the arrival of a pair of Terry forks most generously donated by the true 520 originator - Guy Retreau. Once I have those babies I can get the headset, and front end a bit more together which will be interesting. I may well be stealing Phatatude's stem solution too, though my hope is to get the stem riser threaded so I can still fit a period quill stem rather than an a-head which I'm not sure would fit the style of this build. (ie to pass it off as an original item).


Side profile. Shaping up nice with pursuit wheel mismatch and flipped northroad bars.


Other forks in shot are 24" mountain-bike forks. These are basically too big for the 520 size - would need überlong reach calipers and I want to fit little road ones.


The forks test-fitted here are actually 20" Pashley trike forks (for 500a wheels). They are a few mm short for the job. At a pinch they'd work if you did a bit of grinding at the crown (Danger! Danger!) but I'm more than sure that the 24" Terry forks will be perfect so no need to put my life at risk with auto-separating forkage.


Test-fitting prototype brake/stay bridges, made from pen tubes ground with the trusty Dremel.

Last edited by LittlePixel; 05-20-08 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 05-20-08, 02:47 PM   #12
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If you straightened the forks some, the clearance would increase a bit.
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Old 05-20-08, 03:00 PM   #13
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I think those forks are made from cast pig-iron though so finding ways of bending them without a proper vice (I don't have a proper vice) might be difficult. The dropouts on those forks are pretty crap too so I think they'll be going back to the shed once I have the forks off one of these in their place:

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Old 05-20-08, 04:40 PM   #14
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I like the look of the inverted north road bar. I may have to "borrow" that idea.
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Old 05-20-08, 04:48 PM   #15
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I like the look of the inverted north road bar. I may have to "borrow" that idea.
Quite a few people over at the fixed gear gallery have done this mod and since I had a pair lying around I thought I should try it. I've never got on with full drops - I don't like going that low, but these are a nice compromise and offer similar positions to the Nitto moustache bar. After this shot was taken I chopped about 3" off the ends and fitted them to my Brompton. (link goes to pic of setup) Once they've got some tape on them they work pretty well - they feel purposeful without knackering your back.
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Old 05-21-08, 12:09 AM   #16
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yeah be like a vintage racer

I tried 20" MTB forks. Think if you could get normal forks but the same length as suspension forks. They would fit. If you know what I mean. I havent seen such forks.
I would suggest Raleigh Vektar/ wildcat forks. They have longish blades and steerer tube. But are old and rare. Not top quality either. I had them on my Grifter
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Old 05-22-08, 10:17 AM   #17
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I have a "Terry" Designed Bianchi at my house right now. I am tryin to sell it for a friend. It has the smaller sized wheel in the front like the one above. I didnt know anything about it, but those are supposed to be advantageous for women.
Hey lil'pix, I may head up to the LBS to see if that stem riser can be threaded for ya (I have an extra one). Its raining and it's sizing up to be a pretty boring day here so nuthin' better to do but help a friend acrossed the pond.

R-20's : A two piece bike that brings people together...
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Old 05-22-08, 06:24 PM   #18
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The deal with terry bikes is that they use a smaller front wheel so they can have a petite cockpit length; a full size wheel would interfere with the pedals at that size - hence 520 iso wheel. They seem to have ditched it now though - all their new bikes seem to be 650c on front and rear - ie just a 7/8 scale bike instead of a normal size with small front end.

Phatatude - that's a mighty generous offer and one which I'd love to take you up on - but maybe hold on to your horses just a wee moment till I get the forks and size up the situation in terms of what I'm gonna definitely need to build up the front. Don't get me wrong - your offer is sweet - I just wouldn't want to put you to all that effort if my steerer turns out to be long enough already...
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Old 05-22-08, 07:58 PM   #19
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gotcha...
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Old 05-23-08, 02:02 AM   #20
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I am not catching all the details here, but are you looking for forks? Maybe I should send you the one from my basement for a 24" folder. It is still there. Chrome I think. Came from one of these http://www.denrustneeike.no/home.asp (not this exact one..). Also has got a new 522x28 (i think it is) tire from a sale. Need it for the front? colour is black rubber with brown sidewalls. Need it?
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Old 05-23-08, 02:52 AM   #21
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Thanks for the offer badmother! It's really generous (though less so if it *was* the one in that pic! ) esp being chrome, but I already have some forks winging their way across the atlantic as I type donated generously by the true 520 originator - Guy Retreau.

So really many many thanks (I can't get over the generosity of the great people in this forum) but may I respectfully decline in a bid not to fill the shed with even more rainy-day Twenty parts? Maybe you can fit them to something cool yourself...
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Old 05-23-08, 05:48 AM   #22
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Was hoping I could dump some of my "just in case" stuff with you you know! Posting it feels better than throwing it (as I guess a lot of peopel think I should do..)
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Old 05-23-08, 08:09 AM   #23
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I was delighted to receive Pixels leftover Merc bits after he stripped his Merc Frame and donated the parts for the price of a couple of beers.

So far I only used one of his old inner tubes when I got a puncture, but I have enough spares to make that bike last me the rest of my life probably. Some parts like forks, I only anticipate might come in useful after a head on crash with a concrete wall.
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Old 05-23-08, 08:58 AM   #24
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You know that side view pic reminds me of Grahame Obrees "Old Faithful".

http://www.richardpettinger.com/cycl...ree/obree_tuck

Looks good. Needs a washing machine bearing BB though!
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Old 05-23-08, 10:38 AM   #25
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I watched the Obree movie 'Flying Scotsman' just last week actually...
It is remarkable how similar the geometry is..
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