neilfein

Hello everybody,

My first post to this forum!

Having just started a bike-train commute, and I'm thinking about maybe getting a folder so I can travel from site to site at work. The mountain bike I commute on is really more of a touring bike at this point (front and rear Tubus racks that are worth more than the bike), and the train station I go to is seedy enough that I'm nervous leaving my bike locked up there.

Edit: See post #12 below for an update to this list.

• Looking to spend $300-700
• Steel frame - I'm 5'7" and 200 pounds
• 20" wheels - they seem a good compromise between speed and folding size.
• Rear rack (or one is available).
• Gearing - enough to handle decent hills, but I don't commute over mountains. (That's what my 1988 hardtail is for.) 18 speed or similar.
• The ability to add lights is important, but I suspect any folder can handle that.

The Dahon Boardwalk D6 looks to be more or less what I'm looking for (I see it got some love on this forum), but what models should I be considering? Brands I can find at a dealer near home (NJ or eastern PA) get special consideration, of course.

I apologize for the laundry list. Bicycling is not new to me by any means, but folding bikes are; I'm still figuring out what questions I need to ask. Thanks!

chainstrainer

The Dahon D6 has only 6 gears, I believe, not 18, but unless the inclines are long and steep I'm not sure you'd need 18 gears.

Have you seen the recent thread on the Novarra FlyBy at REI? It is a Dahon-based product that is very similar to the $1000.00 Dahon MU XL, but REI is selling the FlyBy for $599.00. Both have an internal 8-speed Shimano Nexus hub - no delicate derailleurs to be banged around in transport. If you are an REI member (if not, $20 gets a lifetime membership) you receive a 20% discount through March 30 - that would be about $479.00. There is an REI about 52 miles from you in Marlton.

Speedo

If you are serious about doing the multi-mode commuter thing, the you should think more seriously about 16 inch wheels. The most compact folds are in the 16 inch class. The ease, and compactness of the fold are critical in that multi-mode commuter application.

See if you can find a Brompton, a Bike Friday Tikit, a Downtube Mini, and a Dahon Curve to test. The Brompton has the best fold of the lot. I've only ridden the Tikit and the Brompton, and I think the Tikit ride is better. I believe the Downtube Mini is the cheapest, and there is a thread about it here in the folding forum. If you search I believe there is also a thread about the Dahon Curve.

Be careful. Hanging around in the Folding Forum warps your view of what a bicycle should look like!

Speedo

neilfein

It looks sweet, but I'd like to stick with a steel frame. I may check out an REI dealer anyway, so I can actually try one of these out. I've never ridden a folding bike, let alone tried to fold one up!

Dahon.Steve

Don't be afraid of an alu folder. It's more important to choose a good quality supension seat post like the ThudBuster or a Brooks Champion flyer.

At your price range, you can forget about buying a Brompton or Bike Friday as those approach over 1k. However, it's not the end of the world and since you'll be taking NJ Trainsit NEC, you'll have no trouble boarding with the bike folded. Either 16 or 20' inch folder will work out fine.

jur

... frame.

Look no further than a Downtube. Though the Downtube components are lower on the bling hierarchy, the frames are among the best. They have earned an excellent reputation.

mrbrown

Yes, 16-inch is a good choice if you plan to do multi-modal. While I like my 20-inch Dahons, I find that in a cramped space, the 16-inch Dahon Curve really makes a difference. I ride a D3, but the new SL looks sweet too (lighter, 8-speed Nexus hub instead of 3-speed Sturmey-Archer, significantly more expensive than the D3 though). The Curves are made of alum though.

For 20-inch, a Speed D7 or Vitesse D7 is a good choice for the money. Go with the Speed D7 if you want Chromo-steel. I still think aluminium is fine but to each his own.

This is me on the train with my Curve, my former Vitesse and my MU P24.

chainstrainer

Well there you go, Neil. Mr. Brown's Dahon Mu P24 has not just 18 gears but 24 and it is only a little outside your budget range. Aluminum, though.

neilfein

I'm starting to lean towards a Dahon bike. The P24 and the speed both look worth checking out. It's time for me to find a dealer and test-ride one.

rhm

Since I see you're in NJ like me, I assume you're contemplating taking the bike on NJTransit trains, which I do twice daily.
When you take a folding bike on the train, you're very close to the tolerances of what will, and what won't, work. My bike, a Downtube Mini, is very close to the point where, if it were an inch wider, it would not fit on some trains, while if it were two or three inches longer, it would not fit on others. Specifically: on the older trains you can put a 16" wheel bike on the overhead rack without inconveniencing anybody, but a larger bike is going to cause problems up there. On the new double-decker trains you can put a 16" wheel bike in the empty space in the center of each coach; the seats in the front half of each coach face forward, and those in the rear half of each coach face the rear, so in the center there's a forward facing one that's back-to-back with a rear facing one, and you can put a small folding bike in there no problem. But it's tight! My Downtube Mini fits fine, but when I put a rack on it, it didn't fit any more. Possibly a bike with 20" wheels will work; but I'm not sure. I suggest you borrow one and try it out before you commit yourself to that.
Most coaches have an area where a passenger with larger luggage can sit; if your bike is too big, you will need to sit there. There are a coupld problems with that plan: If those seats are taken, you stand; or the conductor may ask you to get off the train. Best case scenario, you get a seat; but it faces to the side, rather than to the front or back; you cannot relax, so you cannot sleep on the train... which is a cost too high for me!
My advice? Don't be afraid of 16" wheels; I've had no problems with 'em.
Rudi

neilfein

Hmm Something to keep in mind. Is there a significant difference (except for sizer and compactness) between the handling and rolling resistance of 20" and 16" wheels?

neilfein

Updated laundry list. (Changes in italics.)

• Looking to spend $300-700
• Steel or AL frame - I'm 5'7" and 200 pounds,
• 16" or 20" wheels - they seem a good compromise between speed and folding size. 16" will be better for going on the train in rush hour.
• Rear rack (or one is available).
• Gearing - enough to handle decent hills, but I don't commute over mountains. (That's what my 1988 hardtail is for.) > 8 speeds. I need to test-ride an 8-speed.
• The ability to add lights is important, but I suspect any folder can handle that.
• Fenders

mrbrown

I find my 16-inch bike twitchier to handle. Smaller wheels do that. I've ridden it at speeds of up to 56kmh and it feels less stable. That said, the smaller wheels mean more agile handling.

I don't feel much difference in the rolling resistance between my 16 and 20 inch bikes.

The 20 inch has a more comfortable ride and feels more like a big bike in terms of ride but one gets used to the 16-inch ride fairly quickly.

A lot depends on the choice of tires. My D3 has Big Apple tires, and they REALLY make a difference in comfort. Even though the Curve D3 is a 16-incher, the Big Apples absorb a lot of the road vibrations, and make the ride great. They are heavy tires, no doubt, but a worthwhile trade-off. I believe the Curve SL ships with Marathon Racers, which are thinner, and I suspect are used to lighten the SL model and increase speed.

Note that the MU P24 is rear heavy, due to the weight of the SRAM Dualdrive hub in the rear wheel and the 8-speed cassette there.

I do like having all the gears to play with on my P24, but lately, I've gone back to my Curve (cos I added a new handlebar bag), and I find 3 speeds adequate for a commute, both full and mixed. There is a simplicity in having less gears that I find useful in the hustle and bustle of urban riding. Being able to change gears while stopped at a traffic light is also cool (how I love hub gears). 8 speeds is probably more than enough, unless you have many hills to climb.

Yeah fenders and racks rule. It's been raining a lot lately here, and all three of my bikes had fenders which saved the day. I have racks for two of my three bikes too. The Curve recently got a handlebar bag attached instead of a rack. Because the funky custom rear fender my LBS old uncle installed for me got in the way of installing the Arclite rack.

neilfein

The next logical question is about potholes. Is there a difference in how 16 and 20" tires would handle them? Of course, I try to avoid them, byt NJ in winter and early spring is pretty lousy with potholes and cracked pavement.

rhm

The Dahon Curve comes with a rear rack, doesn't it? Can anyone comment on how useful it is? I had that rack on my Downtube Mini for a while, but it was basically useless. There was nothing I could put on it that didn't cause heel strike issues, and it increased the folded width of the bike a tiny bit, which turned out to be a pain in the neck. I've also used a seatpost rack; I still use that sometimes; but it's not a really good solution. I ride with a messenger bag.

My mini has dynamo lighting and fenders; wouldn't ride without 'em.

omnirider

I'm in the same boat as you, just starting a bike-train commute and have been shopping for a folding
bike. I came across a useful buyers guide at https://www.foldingcyclist.com/folding-bike-buyers-guide.html
There are quite a few bikes listed in your range. But now I can't decide between a Dahon,
Swift, or Downtube. I'm curious about an adequate gear requirement for hills too. I think I need to
test ride an 8-speed as well. Is the consensus that 8-speeds is enough to handle decent hills?

rhm

In my opinion, 8 speeds is enough; but I don't go over any serious hills. If a bike doesn't have a low enough gear, you can adjust the gearing by switching the chain ring to a smaller one, or the rear cog to a bigger one; but of course this kind of thing can get expensive.

More problematic is the fact that most folders have a short wheelbase; going up a hill in low gear you can easily pull the front wheel off the road.

Mr. Smith

Have a look at Strida. I can't get near one, but maybe you can. Looks like a design that makes a lot of sense for bus/train commuters and in your price range, or at least very close to it. I would think compact size is key if you're not going too far. There's others I don't know much about like CarryMe, etc. Those are just too compact for me, so I never looked closely at them.

Edit: Forgot it's single speed... Still might be worth a look though.

makeinu

Keep in mind that having more speeds doesn't benefit you if the extra ones are just duplicates. Most 8 speed internal hubs have ranges similar to typical 16 speed derailleur setups because 8 speed internal hubs have 8 unique speeds.

I think the general consensus of this forum is that, despite being visually striking, wheel size doesn't really seem to have enough influence on any one aspect of ride quality to draw conclusions independently of other design characteristics.

That being said, you might want to ask about particular bikes instead of 16" or 20" diameter wheels in general.

rhm

I agree with that. Well said, too.

folder fanatic

It appears that several Dahon models would fit the bill for you.

All my present bikes are the simple internal hub basic "city bike" ones. I tend to keep off excess junk off the bikes, but I can install necessary things like a removable battery powered lights, extra bags (mostly made by me), and emergency tools very quickly as activity warrants.

Slight in my experience. I have good tires on all my bikes, not just the 16 inchers. The tire width is more critical in traction than in comfort. For suspension, I tend to use sprung saddles.

The trick with using rear racks on smaller wheel bikes is how you load the rack. Instead of mounting items so that the wide part of the package sticks out from side to side, I narrow it by packing it from front of the rack out over the rear of the bike. I do avoid my heels striking the package when strapped.

All my bikes are smaller wheeled folding ones (1 20" and 2 16" or 305 and 349 tires), with Sturmey-Archer AW three speed hubs. I live in an area with rolling hills. Both my Dahons have rear racks and fenders (they came with them), my Brompton did not since it was the no frills stripped down model. I find that 3 speeds are fine for me providing the bikes are geared properly for the terrain that I cover at a daily basis. The gearing is achieved by having a miid-forties chainring (2 44t, 1 46t diameter) and a 13t-14t rear cog. While I can climb most hills surrounding my house, I will probably increase the size of my rear cog on all three bikes to about 16-20" in diameter when I get around to it. I find all my bikes are very stable in handling characteristics. I do not stand up on my pedals going up hills so that might accout for the lack of unintentional wheelies.

If you have no preference in the frame's metal, I would recommend the Dahon Curve D3. It does come with fenders and the rear rack (though I would double check with your dealer).

JugglerDave

I'm using a Downtube IX NS on bike+Amtrak+bike commute. Each way is 1 mile flat, 25 minute train, then 3 miles "downhill" in the morning and "uphill" in the PM. The hill is no joke (profile attached), with a max grade of around 15-17% for a short bit. I now have the strength to do most of the hill in the 3rd gear of the Downtube, with only the shortest steepest 50 ft in 2nd gear. When I was shopping for bikes the low gearing is what sold me -- even the internal hub version had a lowest gear inch of 38 (?), but the IXNS was as low as 28. I've done this for over one year and 100+ round trips (that's 300 folds and unfolds too).

Dahon.Steve

This is interesting.

I didn't know the trains on the NEC had this kind of problem. There's always plenty of space in the handicap spot which is where I bring my full size bike. A folder will easily fit there and if worse comes to worse, you can stand in the middle of the car with the bike folded.

I guess you're the expert but I happen to think the Strida or CarryMe would have no trouble because they would both fit in the overhead rack. In fact, the CarryMe would fit right between your legs while sitting down.

DLBroox

Truer words were never spoken!!

jur

I suppose you mean hanging around in the Folding Forum clears your view of what a bicycle should look like?