brakemeister

think Dahon has some patents on the curl .... I dont think its a patent issue .. but as Josh Hon said, they want to test and retest and make it better yet, before they actually put it in production and sell it.

I lust for that bike , but I can wait a year longer and than get a better version

thor

chainstrainer

Bump: I just read that the Dahon Curl has arrived and the production model will debut at the Taipei Cycle Show in March 2009:

vincentnyc

wow...a cheaper alternative to the brompton where u can pack this folding bike in any suitcase w/o taking its apart...this will give brompton a run for its money!!!!

jur

I don't think this will be a cheaper alternative to the Brompton. Expect to see a similar price.

joseff

Too bad the chain is on the outside...

brakemeister

dont get your pants in a curl ....... they probaly show it but its not gonna be anywhere for sale in this year .... for heavens sake most of the 09 models are not even available ....

thor

Dahon.Steve

I predict this bike will be over 1K! Yup, start saving your pennies because it's going to be very nice. Lets hope they make it fire engine red with an eight speed hub. I also hope they come out with a 20' and 26' inch version.

I think the Curve SL has seen it's last days because the new Brompton LookaLike has to come with the Shimano 8 speed

makeinu

Yup, but do expect:
-much smaller fold (as much smaller than the brompton as the brompton is smaller than the 20" bikes) or much bigger wheels (hopefully 406 big apples)
-more standard and better components
-lighter
-cheaper for old model years

So is the Brompton's:
brompton_chain.jpg

In any case I'm not really concerned about it because I seem to get along just fine without chain oil. I'm more worried about the mess made by the rim brakes!

EvilV

How do you take care of your chain's then?

makeinu

1. Use full fenders to keep things clean.
2. Store bike in a warm dry place after riding in the rain to inhibit rust (might not be possible with a nonfolder).
3. Keep a straight and well tensioned chainline (might not be possible with a derailleur or chain tensioner).
Rustproof chain might help too, but my other chains have been getting along just as well.

I commute year around about half a mile from a salt water body and consistently get about 100mm of precipitation per month with the hottest months being around 33C and the coldest months around -2C.

makeinu

Here's a side-by-side with the wheels scaled to match:
compare.jpg
And Brompton with a Mu SL:
bothfold1.jpg

feijai

I think you need to scale the Curl even smaller: it's probably got Dahon 16" (305) tires, not the bigger Brompton 16" (349) ones. You can even see this in the picture -- the tire thickness strongly suggests it.

So I took the liberty of scaling the Brompton for those tire sizes. Assuming that's correct, and my math is right, the result is, well... it just can't be...



EDIT: I meant 349, not 355, sorry.

folder fanatic

I own both a Brompton and 2 Dahons as I stated many times before here and elsewhere. I noticed several major differences in each company's approaches to their bikes that should be compared and contrasted. Here they are:

The Dahon Way

• Dahons offer much in the way of value and wide range of wheel size for the prices of their models.

• The Dahon corporation has adopted a rapidfire, ever changing yearly model changes by vastly modifying it's folding mechanisms, model offerings, and even whether the model in question will be included or dropped completely.

• This dizzying means of a business that is totally dependant on an huge, constant and rapid growth pattern might not be able to be sustained in the present fashion if this global downturn continues or gets worse-even at the affordable prices offered. Even if most people are drawn to Dahons for their affordablitiy factor, long-term unemployment has a way of dampening demand on mass consumption of a product that changes too much year to year and can't get folding parts for.

The Brompton Way

• Brompton offers some things that Dahon never could.

• Each bike is handmade in their own factory with local people of their community (London, England). Employment and even interaction with customers is kept within the borders of a first world country.

• Their own factory (apparently a single one) is not up to full capacity yet. Ir does have potential to do so, but the company operates on a far more conservative approach than Dahon ever could.

• There is only one frame type (with some titanium parts offered now) since the company has been founded. That means that the bike can be “backwards upgradable” or new parts added to the old bike as needed. This is a critical departure from most other bike companies, including Dahon. My 2 old(!)-2 & 5 years-Dahons cannot have their folding mechanisms replaced now without going to a machine shop to make a part up-more expensive than the bikes are worth. So I only expect to keep both of them for a few more years before I forced to discard them. I can easily purchase any folding part for my Brompton with ease-and install them myself!

• The Brompton is far more compact and is more adaptable to the circumstances and situations I place it in due to it's more balanced squarish folded package. A big plus if you have to squeeze into public transit without being noticed, or walk down or especially up steep stairs when there is no elevator working. My Piccolo is close but a bit more awkward for carrying since it is more rectangular.

I find that the key complaint or comparison here is price. Yes, my Boardwalk was only 200 dollars. My Piccolo was 450 dollars. Yes I can still use them-they still work fine for now in regard of the folding mechinisms. But what happens when the aluminum folding parts fail eventually? What happens if I cannot just run out and get another bike because of personal finances prevent another purchase of any bike no matter the price? I don't have this fear with my Brompton. I am sure people will start looking for durability and the ability to be fixed when broken if this downturn continues or gets worse. So Dahon's real or true hidden price is actually far higher than the original purchase prices up front. Both Dahon and Brompton got their starts in the recessions of the 1980s. If this one (whatever it proves to be) changes or morphs into a major Depression, consumer's habits might be changed permanently to a far more prudent, conservative mold as it has been doing for the past several months-more Brompton like.

Dahon could opt for a different track. Offer more $200-$300 US dollar simple steel basic folding bikes that appeal to the new poor and downtrodden former middle class that does not change at all from year to year (a bike model similar to the Boardwalk S1 that stays the same forever and never gets "upgraded"). Offer parts for that model always. And the options to add a new drivetrain, saddle or whatever to make it more comfortable to the customer.

Dahon could offer it's Brompton alternative. But it is not and never could be a Brompton. Remember Merc anyone?

makeinu

Nice work!

However, the OP reported an "18 inch" wheel which usually refers to the ISO355 Birdy size (Brompton is actually ISO349). So although obviously things are subject to change on a preproduction bike, I think the most likely explanation for the tire proportion is 355mm Birdy rims with Big Apples. After all, Dahon is a big fan of that tire and it is available in 355s.

invisiblehand

What Dahon part is unavailable here in the states?

My memory of the old Brompton is failing, but I would be surprised if Brompton lacked (lots of) aluminum parts.

Merc was a great bike. Indistinguishable from the old Brompton in any important aspect that comes to mind -- I had both. And parts are still available -- you can use Brompton ones if you want to pay double or triple the price. Remember, Anita stopped selling them due to legal pressures not market pressures.

makeinu

You're absolutely right that the Brompton offers some distinct advantages that the Curl will not have (particularly in long term aftercare). But surely you can admit that the Curl will have advantages too (namely a smaller fold with bigger and better tires, more standard components, a lighter frame, and more opportunity to buy old models at a discount).

To me each of the two philosophies have their places and the better one depends on the user's intended usage for the particular bike. I personally very much like the Brompton business philosophy and for those that have no problem vigilently standing watch and hefting around your Bromptons like a mother with child, I would agree that the Brompton is probably offering more than Dahon ever could. However, small as the Brompton bike is, I'm still not willing to keep a package of its size on my person at all times as would be necessary to insure that I receive the long term benefits of its conservative design. After all, the only qualities remaining after a bike is stolen is the price and past enjoyment so unless you are willing and able to protect your investment, sacrificing price, features, etc for the long term is just flushing money down the toilet.

I'd love to have a Carryme built and sold by Brompton.

At the very least, I suppose, a steel frame can be repaired in ways an aluminum one cannot. But more to the point I'm sure there are lots of bits on older Dahons which are no longer available due to design changes (for example, trolly wheels). On the other hand, Bromptons, it seems, have stayed much more consistent, with many of the same ancient parts being used in 2009 that were being used in 1989, with Brompton even custom building many themselves as their part suppliers went out of business (many, no doubt, having been established in 1889 ).

folder fanatic

Here is photos of the parts in question (at least for the Boardwalk-but applies to the Piccolo too):

Starting clockwise from the left, I already contact Dahon for the frame latch and the handlebar one. No longer made. The seatpost one is a mayble if I go through alot of trouble contacting dealers myself. My stem latch is obsolete and I would have to replace it with a poorer 1 piece version if needed. And I could not do the work myself. I would have to take it to the LBS and pay money I might not have at the time. I already replaced my Brompton's wingnut and clamp system myself with ease. Like I told my mother about her old (only 5 years old) DVD player-they don't get fixed anymore. I bought her another one. I do admit I did not expect to keep the Dahons as long as I have to be fair. But circumstances have changed now and I have different expectations now. They are always utility in usage intent and should have been sold long ago and now must be serviced only by me. Not like a few years ago.

My Brompton was very easy to maintain myself. I had to end up having one of the Dahons always at the shop over the same span of years. I am planning to take the Brompton in for professional servicing by a Brompton mechanic very soon-it's first since it's purchase over 3 years ago. It's parts and upkeep costs to me is far less over the years than the Dahons. I don't know anything about the Merc as I never even seen one in person. I only can evaluate bikes that I actually use.

tcs

The Curve in the picture has Schwable Marathon Racers (no need to guess -one can read the markings on the tire), most probably in ISO355.

tcs

tcs

According to Brompton's web site, their optional lightweight front and rear forks are manufactured in China out of Russian titanium. They say their new proprietary gear hub is manufactured in Taiwan.

tcs

feijai

Compare the tire and rim thickness to the Brompton's 349s. I think there's no way those are 355 (*bigger* than the Brompton). Those are 305 tires, same as the other Dahons. Which makes this one heckuva small bike.

invisiblehand

That is disappointing. It would be a shame to have an unusable bike because the latch broke and is irreplaceable ... at least without a terrible amount of trouble.

General question to the forum: Has Dahon commited to supplying parts to newer models?

True. Brompton is remarkably consistent in the ways FF wrote.

makeinu

Good points.

Dahon.Steve

As someone who put thousands of miles on the 305s, I prefer the Brompton 349 because they are just softer. Then again, the suspension has a lot to do with this.

I still think this bike can take a lot of Brompton customers if they price it right. The Dahon Curve was overpriced and the gray color was unimaginative. I can just imagine these bikes flying off the shelf if they are priced under $700.00 dollars.

Let's hope Dahon makes a 20' inch version of this bike because it won't be much smaller than a Brompton. I wonder if it has suspension?

Amuro Lee

The design patent of the folding mechanism of Brompton expired long time ago...
https://www.freepatentsonline.com/4182522.html

Dahon boss praises Brompton
https://www.bikebiz.co.uk/news/26434/...aises-Brompton

Andrew Ritchie stepped down from the post of managing director last year.
https://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle4364276.ece

The marketing strategy of Brompton seems changing recently, too.
https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/498598-brompton-s-new-year-news-letter-2009-a.html
https://www.brompton.co.uk/uploads/br...chure_2009.pdf

tcs

Yep, I did. With the Brompton's @ ISO37x349, I'd say those are either ISO40x355 (a size in which the Marathon Racers are currently manufactured) or ISO32x305 (a size in which the Marathon Racers are not currently manufactured).

I hope they're 355s - otherwise the saddle-to-handlebar distance is likely to be too short for most European and American riders.

Great fun; time will tell.

Best,
tcs