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Old 06-25-08, 06:20 PM   #1
Elad63
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Raleigh Folder

Is it possible to change the rear cog on the orginial Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub. I have alot of hills in my area, and would like to be able to get up most of them. Were would you buy a replacement cog, if available. The bike rides excellent on the flats and slight inclines, but when the hills come, I'm off the bike. Also how do you update the steering and keep the orginial fork. My folder is a 1972 Raleigh Folder.
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Old 06-25-08, 07:00 PM   #2
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Those back cogs are very common. I would expect any LBS to either stock a few or be able to order them right in. They are also commonly available on ebay. The cogs are common to SRAM, Sturmey Archer and even a few others, plus even some obscure coaster brakes. Recognisable by the 3 half-moon tabs that engage.

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturm...her-parts.html

Scroll down.
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Old 06-25-08, 07:00 PM   #3
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....Where do I start?

Best thing to do is check out Sheldon Brown's article on Raleigh 20s and get aquainted with these bikes, then sit back and wait for the R20 owners to answer your post.
As far as I know Harris Cyclery have larger rear cogs for the SA hub, also check out their site for info on Sturmey Archer parts etc.

With the steering, I assume you mean handle bars? There are numerous ways to change them for a modern set up so you can use MTB style bars or even racing drops with aero brake levers. The simplest way is to use a seat post the same as on your bike, turn it upside down, insert the narrow end into the fork steerer and tighten it with the quick release lever, then use a modern head stem of appropriate size on the wide end and mount the handle bars of your choice. You may need to cut the post to the correct length to suit your taste, and also, you might want to weld an extension onto the narrow end so you have more of the insert inside the steerer for peace of mind. I use this method and have had no problems, and that's after daily commuting, touring and fast bunch rides on my Raleigh 20.
Many R20 owners use other methods, which I'm sure they will tell you about, in fact when it comes to modding the R20......when and where does one stop!!
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Old 06-25-08, 07:04 PM   #4
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Ha beat ya
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Old 06-25-08, 07:05 PM   #5
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Yes - the Sturmey archer hub can take lots of different sprockets - Harris Cyclery in the US will sell you one with any number of teeth on it so you can lower your gearing and get up those hills. It's an easy(ish) install - there's a tight steel split-ring 'aka circlip' that keeps the cog on that needs to be released with something like a screwdriver, then you can pull it off and offer up the new one.

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturm...her-parts.html
How many teeth does the one you have have?
Looks like a pristine Raleigh Twenty you have there!

You can update the steering and keep the original fork, though you'll probably lose the quick fold 90 functionality; Any 1" quill stem will fit in the headset so you can find something you like and appropriate bars to follow.
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Old 06-25-08, 07:06 PM   #6
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Darn it - beaten to the post by the antipodean Twenty boys!
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Old 06-26-08, 05:13 AM   #7
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Thanks guys, I've had the bike for about a month or so, just started commuting on it. The steering is the major problem, very stiff handling. I took a look at your websites and others, there seems to be no one set way in modifing a R20. I plan on getting some alloy rims and transfering the SA onto it. I doesn't seem to be a major project. Anyone with any tips or suggestions, would be great.

Thanks again
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Old 06-26-08, 06:09 AM   #8
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The Raleigh Twenty came with a plastic headset that didnt' age well. The forks aren't bad; not great, but good enough. The easiest way to improve the steering is to get a threadless headset, and put together a hybrid headset on your existing fork. You keep the threaded top nut from your existing headset, but change everything else over to the threadless one. Someone, remind me of the size: is it 1"?
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Old 06-26-08, 08:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elad63 View Post
Thanks guys, I've had the bike for about a month or so, just started commuting on it. The steering is the major problem, very stiff handling. I took a look at your websites and others, there seems to be no one set way in modifing a R20. I plan on getting some alloy rims and transfering the SA onto it. I doesn't seem to be a major project. Anyone with any tips or suggestions, would be great.

Thanks again


Elad63,

The QR lever might be too tight, which would effect the steering, maybe loosen it a bit, but not too much so it's too sloppy and dangerous.

One of the popular mods is to remove the Raleigh crank set and bottom bracket and replace them with a Shimano un72 BB or the more expensive Phil Wood BB and 26tpi cups, so you can put modern cranks on. I think the ideal spindle length is about 114mm. Sheldon's info covers this in depth. Some guys get the BB shell re-threaded to 24tpi, so it will take any 71/73? mm BB, that means getting your LBS to help.

With the head stem and long post, I've been experimenting with some 22.2 mm steel tubing and a pipe bender to make something like the "swan-neck" stems that Bike Friday use on their Pocket Rocket model. It means I will be retaining the original nylon bush and QR lever, rather than going threadless or quill type stem.

Alloy rims make a big difference in terms of weight and braking...and they look better IMHO.
Speaking of brakes, most of us R20 owners have updated them with either road calipers or better quality BMX units. As the R20 usually came with 451mm rims these can be used with little work needed to make them fit, if however you want to change to 406mm rims, then you will have to make "drop bolts" to reach the smaller rims. On my wife's R20 we are using the 406 rims and Avid V-brakes, so we've had to braze on the bosses.

I'm sure you will get a lot of helpful advice from all the other R20 guys, so take time to work out what you want to do....then get addicted!!
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Old 06-26-08, 11:24 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by stevegor View Post

...
One of the popular mods is to remove the Raleigh crank set and bottom bracket and replace them with a Shimano un72 BB or the more expensive Phil Wood BB and 26tpi cups, so you can put modern cranks on. I think the ideal spindle length is about 114mm. Sheldon's info covers this in depth. Some guys get the BB shell re-threaded to 24tpi, so it will take any 71/73? mm BB, that means getting your LBS to help.
...
I've had success replacing the BB by using an inexpensive 73 mm UN54 BB, and grinding all but 3 rows of threads off the cartridge and filing away some of the plastic retaining cup's threads (and narrowing the 76 mm shell to 73 mm). That way I didn't have to rethread the BB shell so I can use my original crank and BB cups, but I can always replace it with a modern one. Plus, I modified the cheap part (the BB) rather than the expensive one (the frame). Here's a link:
Raleigh 20 BB

-S
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Old 06-26-08, 12:22 PM   #11
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Hi Stevegor

was thinking about the stem your making
what about welding a stem extension to your tube
maybe cut up a 25.4mm quilled stem.
so the 22mm tube will slide inside the top part.
easy to do

wouldnt have to use a stem bolt if your using the clamp.
maybe run the brake cable through the tube.
with a modified brake noodle to get past the mudguard
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Old 06-26-08, 02:05 PM   #12
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my gosh, a wealth if info, looks like I have alot of searching to do.
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Old 06-26-08, 07:33 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Squeazel View Post
I've had success replacing the BB by using an inexpensive 73 mm UN54 BB, and grinding all but 3 rows of threads off the cartridge and filing away some of the plastic retaining cup's threads (and narrowing the 76 mm shell to 73 mm). That way I didn't have to rethread the BB shell so I can use my original crank and BB cups, but I can always replace it with a modern one. Plus, I modified the cheap part (the BB) rather than the expensive one (the frame). Here's a link:
Raleigh 20 BB

-S
Yes, that is another excellent way of doing it....SEE, the R20 boys are bright sparks


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Hi Stevegor

was thinking about the stem your making
what about welding a stem extension to your tube
maybe cut up a 25.4mm quilled stem.
so the 22mm tube will slide inside the top part.
easy to do

wouldnt have to use a stem bolt if your using the clamp.
maybe run the brake cable through the tube.
with a modified brake noodle to get past the mudguard

Too many head injuries from too many accidents .......I just can't visualise that 2nd bit.....
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Old 06-26-08, 07:44 PM   #14
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Sorry to waffle on, but with all the info gained from Sheldon and all the rest of us R20 nutters, we really do need a specific web page where we can all send our experiences, triumphs and defeats when rebuilding these odd little Pommy bikes, so new R20 owners can access all this wealth of knowledge.

If I wasn't such a computer dinosaur and so braindead I would offer to set it up and edit it on a regular basis, in fact if somebody could tell me how to do it, then I'd give it a try.
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Old 06-26-08, 07:53 PM   #15
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I adjusted the headset (original nylon) just as you would a traditional headset to loosen up the steering a bit. Although not as responsive as a new bearing headset, there was some improvement. I also added a Soma extra long 1" quill to threadless adaptor. This allows you to choose a stem and bars. It is 22.2mm in diameter and dropped right in. Inexpensive and effective.
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Old 06-26-08, 07:57 PM   #16
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I adjusted the headset (original nylon) just as you would a traditional headset to loosen up the steering a bit. Although not as responsive as a new bearing headset, there was some improvement. I also added a Soma extra long 1" quill to threadless adaptor. This allows you to choose a stem and bars. It is 22.2mm in diameter and dropped right in. Inexpensive and effective.
I used my R20 with original headset for a while; I cleaned it and regreased it, and carefully adjusted it, and it worked fine, very freely rotating.

PS for a website, we could simply put all the info here and sticky the thread.

To the OP: Check my sig for my R20 mods. There are some tips there.
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Old 06-26-08, 08:15 PM   #17
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Ha beat ya

....and yes, you did, Jur.....you will probably do the same next Jan for the Alpine Challenge

....and what the blazes is a sticky thread?...is that when the nut won't come off the headstem?

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Old 06-26-08, 08:28 PM   #18
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....and yes, you did, Jur.....you will probably do the same next Jan for the Alpine Challenge
Are you going? Because I am, and I am not... not on the Sunday, but I will be doing it solo on the Saturday, with SWMBO doing support. Much cheaper, it's not on a Sunday, I get to choose the food, no crowds, no one to scorn you if you don't finish... fancy going on the Sat instead with me?
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Old 06-26-08, 09:10 PM   #19
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Are you going? Because I am, and I am not... not on the Sunday, but I will be doing it solo on the Saturday, with SWMBO doing support. Much cheaper, it's not on a Sunday, I get to choose the food, no crowds, no one to scorn you if you don't finish... fancy going on the Sat instead with me?
It's all in the air right now, I've been climbing a local mountain lately, but struggling a bit with old war wounds from 3 yrs ago which might prevent me doing the AC.....watch this space.
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Old 06-27-08, 03:55 AM   #20
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I cleaned and regreased the retainer as suggested, and put a adjustable stem from a MTB I had lying around. Gave me alot more reach. What a major improvement. I also changed out the Qr's with some pivot bolts used for securing a shock on a FS MTB. It seems to work ok until I find something else. I kept hitting the QR's with my knees. The bike is slowing coming to life, I will most pics later this evening with improvements.

By the way if using the standard quill will I still need to use the QR, or can I put some spacers in and get rid of the QR
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Old 06-27-08, 06:58 AM   #21
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I cleaned and regreased the retainer as suggested, and put a adjustable stem from a MTB I had lying around. Gave me alot more reach. What a major improvement. I also changed out the Qr's with some pivot bolts used for securing a shock on a FS MTB. It seems to work ok until I find something else. I kept hitting the QR's with my knees. The bike is slowing coming to life, I will most pics later this evening with improvements.

By the way if using the standard quill will I still need to use the QR, or can I put some spacers in and get rid of the QR


You shouldn't need the QR as the wedge of the quill will keep the stem tight

....hey Guys...looks like another R20 newbie is about to be seduced into the dark world of modding R20s, poor fella, he'll be addicted before he realises what's happening
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Old 06-27-08, 09:30 AM   #22
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I have been looking at folding bikes for sometime now, I tried the Citizen (did not like) and two others a Otoyo (a foldable BMX ), and a Atala, I liked the u shaped Atala, but it did not really fit me well, plus it was very heavy.
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Old 06-27-08, 12:15 PM   #23
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I tried a couple of different rear sprockets on my SA 3-speed hub and then finally converted my Twenty to usea SRAM 7-speed hub. Looking back, I think I could have stayed with the 3-speed. The new hub is pretty cool, but really not necessary for the style of riding I do. I have a page on my web site showing my Twenty. http://www.lennytaylor.freeyellow.com/Twenty.htm
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Old 06-27-08, 12:31 PM   #24
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oh stevegor you dont understand my description of making a stem

have to make one up and post a picture.
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Old 06-27-08, 02:26 PM   #25
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updated pics are on my Flickr account, used various parts lying around. Nothing to crazy, or expensive YET.....

Looking at other orginial Raleighs, my crank doesn't seem to have the same design.

Can I use a spindle from another cottered crankset that takes a double and use the the new spindle and cranks on my folder, giving me a double up front. I see some mods with FD's, what size would the FD be.

I see now how the sky is the limit with all the thinkering possible.
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