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Thread: Folding Helmet

  1. #1
    Senior Member Silverexpress's Avatar
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    Folding Helmet

    I'm in search of a more packable and discrete helmet for commuting - my current Giro is also taking quite a beating bumping into things as it hangs from my messenger bag or bike rack. What do you guys/gals think of this one...

    http://www.spgear.org/gear/5186/edel...ng-helmet.html

    It's made for climbing, so I figure it is probably overspec'd for cycling.

    Are there others?
    Regards,
    Jose

  2. #2
    Senior Member Indie's Avatar
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    Whoa... you actually meant a folding helmet.

    I wouldn't use something that's not a bike helmet. The types of impacts they're tested for may be very different. For example, I understand that one thing that bike helmets are tested for is sliding on road surfaces without snagging (which could break the wearer's neck). Climbing helmets may be more similar to skate/stunt helmets, because I imagine they'd be subject to more direct impacts (such as falls, or falling objects). Unlike skate helmets, they may not be tested for some of the kinds of horizontal falls and skids that wheeled travel entails. Similarly, this is why you're not supposed to wear a hockey helmet for biking.

    Some kinds of sport helmets are interchangeable -- I used a bike helmet for riding a horse when I was a kid, and you'll see that a lot in therapeutic riding programs too. I wouldn't use a horseback riding helmet on a bike, though, for the reasons I stated above.
    Last edited by Indie; 08-13-08 at 10:15 AM.
    Sterling - 1976 Triumph Trafficmaster 20" folder

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    rhm
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    The manufacturer's website:
    http://www.edelrid.de/index.php?opti...id=365&lang=en
    doesn't say anything about bicycling, and nor does the (downloadable pdf) owner's manual for this helmet; but then again bicycle helmets are rare in Germany anyway. You can contact the manufacturer with your question from that web page (I didn't).

  4. #4
    Life in Mono
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    Stash is a folding helmet for bikes

  5. #5
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Nice ... although it looks like there are no US retailers.

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    Does anyone know where to get a Scott Fuga helmet? It looks pretty compact

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indie View Post
    Whoa... you actually meant a folding helmet.

    I wouldn't use something that's not a bike helmet. The types of impacts they're tested for may be very different. For example, I understand that one thing that bike helmets are tested for is sliding on road surfaces without snagging (which could break the wearer's neck). Climbing helmets may be more similar to skate/stunt helmets, because I imagine they'd be subject to more direct impacts (such as falls, or falling objects). Similarly, this is why you're not supposed to wear a hockey helmet for biking.

    Some kinds of sport helmets are interchangeable -- I used a bike helmet for riding a horse when I was a kid, and you'll see that a lot in therapeutic riding programs too. I wouldn't use a horseback riding helmet on a bike, though, for the reasons I stated above.
    Oh bull. If people can't even prove that bike helmets unequivocally enhance safety then how do you intend to argue that noncycling specific helmets are any worse?

    It seems to me that the key distinction of cycling specific helmets is that they are made to be as light as possible while still providing protection for a single impact. Since skate/stunt people presumably intend to hit their heads very often, they require more durable helmets in order to protect their wallets and the compromise is weight. I seriously doubt that using a noncycling specific helmet while cycling would be any less safe. As is often quoted, the purpose of a cycling helmet is to protect you in the case of a fall (not a crash) and it's easy to imagine that just about anything would do the trick.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
    Nice ... although it looks like there are no US retailers.
    www.alternativevehicles.com (the Pacific Cycles distributor) says they will soon be distributing the stashkit helmet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverexpress View Post
    Are there others?
    Keep 'em coming folks. I'm looking for a good folding helmet to mount my lights.

    Although I'm personally skeptical about the protective properties of cycling helmets, I can't help but admit that if we all walked around on our tip toes (as we are when perched atop a properly fitted bike) we probably would be in greater danger of cracking our heads open, simply by virtue of the fact that it's more difficult to balance on your tip toes. Moreover, since lights are a very important safety measure when cycling at night, mounting them atop a swiveling head seems to provide maximum visibility and is, thus, a perfect reason to wear a helmet.
    Last edited by makeinu; 08-13-08 at 01:18 PM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Indie's Avatar
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    In general I would say that any helmet is better than no helmet. But if you're buying a helmet at all you might as well get one that was designed to protect against the types of impacts you'll be likely to face in your chosen activity.

    If you're not convinced that helmets improve safety, then don't try to argue the finer points. Let people who want to wear them discuss them. If the original poster has already decided on wearing a helmet, I think it would be a good idea to encourage wearing the safest kind of helmet instead of one that's not suited to the job.
    Sterling - 1976 Triumph Trafficmaster 20" folder

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indie View Post
    In general I would say that any helmet is better than no helmet. But if you're buying a helmet at all you might as well get one that was designed to protect against the types of impacts you'll be likely to face in your chosen activity.

    If you're not convinced that helmets improve safety, then don't try to argue the finer points. Let people who want to wear them discuss them. If the original poster has already decided on wearing a helmet, I think it would be a good idea to encourage wearing the safest kind of helmet instead of one that's not suited to the job.
    Are bicycle helmets designed to better protect against the types of impacts you're likely to face in cycling? My impression is that they are not designed to better protect against such impacts but to better fit the economics of such impacts. As I said, I thought the most striking characteristic of bicycle helmets was that they are disposable and light weight.

    Although I personally wear a helmet, I would say if you are unequivocally convinced about anything regarding the safety of bicycle helmets (for or against) then don't try to argue the finer points because if you've thus far been unable to discern the great deal of uncertainty there is on the topic then how will you possibly handle the even more delicate aspects?

    Neurosurgeon Dr. Michael Schwartz said the following in his expert testimony which led to the passing of a mandatory helmet law in Ontario:
    "I have no concrete suggestions for improving helmets. It is always a compromise. You could make a helmet that would be far more efficient or far more likely to cushion the impact, but it would be bigger and heavier, and if you made it big enough and heavy enough nobody would wear it. There is always a tradeoff between size and convenience and effectiveness. Right now we are at some sort of level of convenience that still provides protection."
    "There is excellent evidence in the medical literature that shows helmets will mitigate the effects of falling off your bicycle and striking your head. They are designed to reduce the G-force administered to the brain when the head strikes the ground and they are likely effective if the person falls from the height the head is at when a person is cycling. If a cyclist is accelerated by a car, swept up on the hood of the vehicle, to a speed of, say, 40 or 50 kilometres per hour, then the helmet will not work and will not prevent a severe or even fatal head injury. So I think everybody should wear helmets but should have a realistic expectation about what they can or cannot do."

    I have no idea what the safest kind of helmet to wear when cycling would be, but I'm fairly certain that it isn't a cycling specific helmet. So I don't necessarily think that cyclists should always prefer cycling helmets when there could be other helmets out there offering a better compromise of safety, comfort, and convenience for a given user.
    Last edited by makeinu; 08-13-08 at 02:06 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Indie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makeinu View Post
    "There is excellent evidence in the medical literature that shows helmets will mitigate the effects of falling off your bicycle and striking your head. They are designed to reduce the G-force administered to the brain when the head strikes the ground and they are likely effective if the person falls from the height the head is at when a person is cycling. If a cyclist is accelerated by a car, swept up on the hood of the vehicle, to a speed of, say, 40 or 50 kilometres per hour, then the helmet will not work and will not prevent a severe or even fatal head injury. So I think everybody should wear helmets but should have a realistic expectation about what they can or cannot do."
    Excellent quote, thanks, although I'm not sure I'd interpret that to mean that there's some kind of helmet on the market that's safer than a bike helmet. I took it to mean that a helmet isn't a magical miracle device that will save you from all injuries; it's just something that will protect you from some common occurrences that would lead to far more serious consequences without a helmet than with one. (Even if a helmet could protect your head in the case of being swept up on the hood of a car at 50 km/h, your neck would probably be broken. Obviously a helmet can't do everything.)

    If there is a better helmet for biking than a bike helmet, given what Schwartz said about convenience and comfort being the limiting factors, I'd tend to suspect a motorcycle, motocross, or full-face BMX helmet rather than one designed for climbing. If that climbing helmet was ideal for cycling, or as good at protecting from cycling type injuries as bike helmets are, someone would be making that design and having it certified for cycling. It's smaller and more convenient than the bike helmets on the market.

    Climbers, like cyclists, should probably also be aware that their helmets can protect them from some things but not everything. If your partner above you loosens some small rocks and they fall on your head from twenty feet up, you'll notice when they hit your head, but you won't need stitches or have a concussion. If you fall a hundred feet and land on your head, the helmet probably won't make much of a difference.
    Sterling - 1976 Triumph Trafficmaster 20" folder

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indie View Post
    Excellent quote, thanks, although I'm not sure I'd interpret that to mean that there's some kind of helmet on the market that's safer than a bike helmet. I took it to mean that a helmet isn't a magical miracle device that will save you from all injuries; it's just something that will protect you from some common occurrences that would lead to far more serious consequences without a helmet than with one. (Even if a helmet could protect your head in the case of being swept up on the hood of a car at 50 km/h, your neck would probably be broken. Obviously a helmet can't do everything.)

    If there is a better helmet for biking than a bike helmet, given what Schwartz said about convenience and comfort being the limiting factors, I'd tend to suspect a motorcycle, motocross, or full-face BMX helmet rather than one designed for climbing. If that climbing helmet was ideal for cycling, or as good at protecting from cycling type injuries as bike helmets are, someone would be making that design and having it certified for cycling. It's smaller and more convenient than the bike helmets on the market.

    Climbers, like cyclists, should probably also be aware that their helmets can protect them from some things but not everything. If your partner above you loosens some small rocks and they fall on your head from twenty feet up, you'll notice when they hit your head, but you won't need stitches or have a concussion. If you fall a hundred feet and land on your head, the helmet probably won't make much of a difference.
    Well I, for one, am perfectly happy to consider the merits of each helmet individually regardless of CPSC bicycle certification and I don't think I'm alone.

    That being said, here is another foldable helmet marketed in japan for earthquakes:
    http://tatamet.com/

  12. #12
    Senior Member stevegor's Avatar
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    RE: Folding helmet.

    Sammyboy once mentioned he had a folding head.

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    Dahon just came out with their Pango folding helmet. It will be available Mar 2010. It looks just like the Elderid design. same price.

  14. #14
    tcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by extracrispy View Post
    Dahon just came out with their Pango folding helmet. It will be available Mar 2010. It looks just like the Elderid design.
    And it could be the exact same product, or it could be built to the same design but with different materials and/or dimensions.

    edit: On second look, the Dahon seems to have substanially more ventilation, and they mention an available fitted rain cover.

    tcs
    Last edited by tcs; 10-26-09 at 07:16 AM.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

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    tcs
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    A more protective helmet, if one wants to move in that direction.

    tcs
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  16. #16
    Archiboy tblott3's Avatar
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    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    www.lott3metz.com

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    Senior Member echotraveler's Avatar
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    i bet a moutain helmet would protect the same as a bicycle helmet if not more... it looks freaking cool!
    and the dahon looks sweet too!
    Last edited by echotraveler; 10-27-09 at 01:13 PM.

  18. #18
    mermaids are nocturnal Nightdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    And it could be the exact same product, or it could be built to the same design but with different materials and/or dimensions.

    edit: On second look, the Dahon seems to have substanially more ventilation, and they mention an available fitted rain cover.

    tcs
    They actually use slightly different panels, but are identical in their folding method. Both helmets were designed by a French design firm, Pulsium.

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