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  1. #1
    Member vogtro's Avatar
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    Dahon Mu 24 with SRAM Dual Drive...Any good?

    Well I used the search function to get more info about the Mu P24 with limited success...

    On paper, the Dual Drive sounds pretty good... 24 speeds, ability to shift at stops, lack of a front dérailleur.

    Does anyone have any real world experience with this drive train, or with the Dahon Mu P24 in general? Would this bike be high maintenance versus something like the Mu XL? Thanks for the replies.
    Last edited by vogtro; 08-16-08 at 09:18 AM.

  2. #2
    The Metropolis, UK
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    The SRAM dual drive is used on a number of top end folders. It's an excellent gearing system. This is a high-end Dahon bike ideal for commuting and longer distances.

  3. #3
    Member vogtro's Avatar
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    Thank you for your reply. Has anyone had any first-hand experience with this drive train? The nearest Dahon vendor is 200 miles from me...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by vogtro View Post
    Thank you for your reply. Has anyone had any first-hand experience with this drive train? The nearest Dahon vendor is 200 miles from me...
    Yes, it's excellent. Search here or Dahon.com and you'll find plenty of positive comments.
    Dahon Jetstream XP '04 with DualDrive- folding not boring. And an '07 Dahon Cadenza- rather splendid too.

  5. #5
    The Metropolis, UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by vogtro View Post
    Thank you for your reply. Has anyone had any first-hand experience with this drive train? The nearest Dahon vendor is 200 miles from me...
    Yes I've tried it twice on a Dahon Speed Pro and Bike Friday Tikit. It's a really good system in my opinion.

  6. #6
    Member vogtro's Avatar
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    I guess my greatest concern would be over durability. It seems there is more to go wrong with this setup...but maybe I'm wrong. While I've heard that it's generally rare for a hub to go, when it does it often leads to catastrophic failure. Is that not such the case with this, since it has the combination system? Could you theoretically use the derailleur as a "back-up" (which would make it more suitable for touring) if the hub goes?

    I'm also worried about the derailleur going out of whack after the fold, or after bringing it on plane trips. Is this typical or is it less of a bother with the lack of a front derailleur?
    Last edited by vogtro; 08-16-08 at 04:45 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by vogtro View Post
    I guess my greatest concern would be over durability. It seems there is more to go wrong with this setup...but maybe I'm wrong. While I've heard that it's generally rare for a hub to go, when it does it often leads to catastrophic failure. Is that not such the case with this, since it has the combination system? Could you theoretically use the derailleur as a "back-up" (which would make it more suitable for touring) if the hub goes?

    I'm also worried about the derailleur going out of whack after the fold, or after bringing it on plane trips. Is this typical or is it less of a bother with the lack of a front derailleur?
    The derailleur still works if the hub won't shift (eg broken/faulty clickbox). The derailleur's as reliable (or not) as any other derailleur, it's standard parts. And the hub's sealed and pretty much maintenance free.

    For plane trips, ditto...derailleur's no more and no less vulnerable than an derailleur-only drivetrain. I've read it's advisable to remove and protect the DD clickbox and shift rod though, search here for info.
    Dahon Jetstream XP '04 with DualDrive- folding not boring. And an '07 Dahon Cadenza- rather splendid too.

  8. #8
    Member vogtro's Avatar
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    StuAff, thanks this is very helpful...

  9. #9
    Senior Member mrbrown's Avatar
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    It's an excellent bike, a real workhorse. I ride it every day for work and for long recreational rides and pootles. The gearing is very adequate for most road conditions and hills.

    The hub is trouble-free. For travel, the click box and pin should be protected. There is a stopper you can get that protects the pin. As for the rear derailleur, as long as you keep the chain clean, it should be ok. The hub and rear d are independent.

    The Marathon Racer tires are a nice mix for comfort and speed though you can get Big Apples if you want more comfort.

    I highly recommend it for commuting and touring.
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    I have a 2008 Mu P24 with Dual Drive. The one thing I did was swap out the 11-32 cluster for a 11-28 cluster to tighten up the gear. You will notice that there is a lot of gear overlap. You probably get 13-14 usable gears. That said, it is very good for longer rides with up and down terrain. If I were to look at a new Mu, I might have one made for me with 10 speeds 11-34 gearing instead of the dual drive.

  11. #11
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    My tuppence: if you're going to deal with a RD, avoid the weight of an IGH and add a FD. Much lighter solution, esp. if you're carrying the bike up stairs.

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    Member vogtro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maunakea View Post
    My tuppence: if you're going to deal with a RD, avoid the weight of an IGH and add a FD. Much lighter solution, esp. if you're carrying the bike up stairs.
    In terms of the two bikes in question (Mu XL, with the internal 8sp gear hub, and the Mu P24, with the Dual Drive):

    Mu XL Sport - Rear 8 SP Gear Hub WITH fenders: 26.4 lbs

    Mu P24 - Dual Drive, w/o fenders: 25.96 lbs

    So in fact the weight difference is negligible, if not in favor of the P24 w/ DD, when you consider the weight of the fenders.

    Dahon doesn't have a small folder with a FD, to my knowledge, however, the Mu P8 (w/ a 8 sp RD setup): 24.2 lbs

    Now that's a good 2 lb difference.

  13. #13
    Member vogtro's Avatar
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    Well after a lot of sitting and brewing over it this is what I've come up with:

    Mu XL


    Pros

    - Simple internal gear hub configuration
    - Less fragile Drivetrain (lack of derailleur, cassette)
    - Less anticipated maintenance
    - More gears available to shift at stops (8 vs. 3)

    Cons

    - Weight
    - Less gear range
    - Costs more
    - Complete breakdown if hub fails

    Mu P24

    Pros

    - More wide, versatile gear range
    - Better Price
    - lighter weight (marginal)
    - Easier wheel removal (?)
    - Rear Der. can still be used if click box, cable damaged

    Cons

    - More maintenance, due to presence of derailleur & cassette
    - More fragile drive train (more exposed in the event of wreck or transport damage)
    - No mudguards standard

    It seems the Mu XL is probably more suited as a durable commuter and light weekend rides, while the P24 is, as Mr Brown said, a more versatile bike that could easily tour.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Northwestrider's Avatar
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    I've had the Mu P24 for around 3 months or so. My longest ride was a bit over 60 miles. I stuff it into it's Dahon case regularly and put it on a airline. So far I love it. I ride for pleasure and exercise, it meets my needs very well.

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    I've had my Dahon Speed TR with DualDrive for 3 years now and no issues what so ever (Over 1,500 miles). I think the dual drive is the perfect drive for a folder. Given the short distance from crank to rear dropouts, a chain has to deflect a lot to go from a three cog front to a rear cluster. The Dual drive eliminates this deflection since the front has only 1 cog center on the rear cluster. Add in the ability to shift at a standstill and no front deraileur alignment issue and the Dual Drive is the unit to have on a folder. In fact, it was on of the key components that help me select the Speed TR

    Brian

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    Quote Originally Posted by vogtro View Post
    Does anyone have any real world experience with this drive train, or with the Dahon Mu P24 in general? Would this bike be high maintenance versus something like the Mu XL? Thanks for the replies.
    I have the Dual Drive on my Bianchi Bergamo (not a folder) but I'll give you an opinion. I found this hub makes me ignore the derailluer completely. In fact, once I set my derailluer once, I've never moved it again. I found that for the most part, I only shift the dual drive up and down it's three gears. If there's a hill, I going into it fast and as I start to slow down, I shift down and spin up the hill. The low gear of the Dual Drive allows me to go up most small hills without having to touch the derailluer.

    If I'm going down hill, I shift up the dual drive and it gives a high enough gear. I can't say enough about this hub.

  17. #17
    Senior Member mrbrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vogtro View Post

    Dahon doesn't have a small folder with a FD, to my knowledge
    There is one with an FD, it's the new Vitesse P16. It has a microshift 2-speed shifter for the front gears, and an 8-speed rear cassette with a Tiagra RD. There is a factory welded braze-on derailleur tab.

    http://www.speedmatrixdepot.com/cata...roducts_id=237

    The P16 is about 11.4kg (25.1lbs).

    Some photos from a Korean site below (found by a Dahon forummer).

    I believe in the US, the Vitesse is a D7HG. We don't get that here in Singapore. We only have the Vitesse D7 and P16. I don't know what other countries get the P16 because I don't see it on the Dahon site.

    I also use the Dualdrive in the same way as Dahon.Steve. Shifting mostly with the internal hub. In the city, with all its traffic lights, it is great to be able to change gears while stationary.

    The thing to note is the Dualdrive makes the the bike significantly rear heavier, especially when you add a rack. Some may not like how it makes the bike feel.

    I am thinking of changing my 11-34 8-speed cassette too, to an Ultegra 9-speed 12-25 for closer ratios. I am not sure if I am going suffer on the slopes though, haha!

    A friend of mine recently changed his MU P24 to a "P27". All because he wanted Ergon grips and could not find the long-short version. In the end, he changed his twist shifters to SRAM X-7 trigger shifters, changed the 8-speed cassette to a 9-speed Deore, changed the chain (original one not compatible with 9-speed cassette), and ended up with a MU P27 haha!
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    I just rode a MU P24 from Chicago to Cleveland this June. The bike did great. I like the drivetrain. Some are some unexpected things that I like with the internal hub. For one, there is no cross chaining as with a front derailure so you can truely use all the gear combinations. Also, you can shift at a standstill, like at a traffic light.

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    While not as cool as a ride from Chicago to Cleveland I just rode 22 miles to work on mine. I can't wait for the ride home. As people have pointed out one of the coolest features of this bike is the wide gear range you get by having the SRAM DualDrive hub. I had a nice tailwind on the ride in so I put it in the highest gear and was flying and it felt great. I've ridden this bike to work an average of 3 days a week since the beginning of summer and I've hardly had to do any maintenance on it outside of lubing the chain.

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    I just upgraded to the mu p24 from a Speed D7. The p24's gearing is awesome and I could really feel the difference in terms of increased speed and flexibility. I know its unfair to compare the two, but I just wanted to share the observation of the superior feel of the bike. I also live on a hill and the dual drive is a godsend of a difference and the main reason I upgraded to this bike. Shifting at stops is great and makes the riding experience so much more fun . about the only thing bad I can say is I wouldn't mind the low gear being a tad lower but I'm sure it will be next to effortless as I keep riding and my legs get stronger or an upgrade to a bigger 8 speed cassette(11-34?) might get the feel just right (for me).Tackling the hills on a D7 was tough, the p24 is like butter. And I got a great deal on it with an included touring rack...I'm a happy camper..I highly recommend.

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    I am in the market for a quality folding bike but have had many-many concerns about Dahon's products. I fell in love with a 6 speed M-style Brompton, but am concerned with the fact that I will be riding it on very hilly terrain in-and-around Los Angeles. I feel like 6 speeds won't be enough at times and haven't been able to get used to the shifting of gears when taking a Brompton for test rides.

    Currently, I've gotten around L.A. and Pasadena's hilly terrain just fine with a both an early 70s 10 speed Fuji road bike and a mid 90s Jamis Earth Cruiser with a 7 speed internal hub.

    However, reading this thread has had me reconsider Dahon's Mu line.

    Any thoughts or recommendations are most appreciated!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrodyne View Post
    I am in the market for a quality folding bike but have had many-many concerns about Dahon's products. I fell in love with a 6 speed M-style Brompton, but am concerned with the fact that I will be riding it on very hilly terrain in-and-around Los Angeles. I feel like 6 speeds won't be enough at times and haven't been able to get used to the shifting of gears when taking a Brompton for test rides.

    Currently, I've gotten around L.A. and Pasadena's hilly terrain just fine with a both an early 70s 10 speed Fuji road bike and a mid 90s Jamis Earth Cruiser with a 7 speed internal hub.

    However, reading this thread has had me reconsider Dahon's Mu line.

    Any thoughts or recommendations are most appreciated!
    Yeah the Dahon's are great, and since you live in the LA area, I'm sure you could easily find one to test drive since the company is based out of SoCal. I prefer Dahon because they are "midsized" (20 in. wheels) and "midpriced" compared to say the Brompton's or Bike Friday. Although I would love to have a Bike Friday tikit sometime in the near future after a save a few more pennies.I'm from the Bay Area and our terrain is probably similar and I find the mu p24 a perfect fit for my needs. the Speed Tr is a good option as well if you have a few more dollars lying around and prefer a few more options. good luck!

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