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Old 09-18-08, 12:15 PM   #1
somnatash
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Bromton improvments or changes

Hi,
next to the already discussed hub there will be additional little changes, which I partly saw at Eurobike:
1) matt colour (very nice in matt-black)
2) a metal cage for the non folding pedal:

3) the PU saddle will be abandoned for a rail saddle:

4) a lighter wheel with double butted spokes, perhaps this will be lighter than a wheel with AeroHead-rim from Velocity? but rim still a flat form :-(


5) And a new bag, very nice yellow sail-like inside cloth -
6) and a wider S-bar with lighter grips (I wonder which this would be, the old grips were already extremely light.

Last edited by somnatash; 09-19-08 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 09-18-08, 01:58 PM   #2
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I wonder if they are Sapim spokes. Pashley got Sapim to make short DB spokes for their 406-wheeled TSR. DB spokes always seemed an easy way to cut some weight from the Brompton if available but the minimum order requirement precluded it being an aftermarket option.
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Old 09-18-08, 03:42 PM   #3
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I wonder if they are Sapim spokes. ...
I guess so since Brompton uses Sapim spokes and nipples on current wheels.
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Old 09-18-08, 06:07 PM   #4
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I like the little cute brompton motif on the saddle!
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Old 09-18-08, 06:45 PM   #5
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As always, the improvements are incremental, which is a good thing I guess (or bad, depends on how you view it). So the new rail saddle will be standard? I think they are still going the Pentaclip route? I was hoping they would switch to direct-pull brakes this year.
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Old 09-18-08, 08:14 PM   #6
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I never realized the Brompton had a wonky saddle. Glad to see they're switching to what the rest of the world uses.

How much weight do you suppose the new wheels will save?

Last edited by itsajustme; 09-18-08 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 09-18-08, 09:04 PM   #7
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I like the little cute Brompton motif on the saddle!
+1

Very classy.

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Old 09-18-08, 10:00 PM   #8
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Hi,
next to the already discussed hub there will be additional little changes,
What hub changes? Are they going to an 8 speed hub?
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Old 09-19-08, 01:44 AM   #9
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What hub changes? Are they going to an 8 speed hub?
No, it is a 6 speed system. Have a look here:New BWR 6-speed hub from Brompton

Last edited by PDR; 09-19-08 at 02:59 AM.
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Old 09-19-08, 02:20 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by itsajustme View Post
I never realized the Brompton had a wonky saddle. Glad to see they're switching to what the rest of the world uses.How much weight do you suppose the new wheels will save?
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Originally Posted by bykerouac View Post
...So the new rail saddle will be standard? I think they are still going the Pentaclip route? ...
They say weight saving is about 85g (that includes a new front hub and aluminium instead of brass nipples).

I do not like the shape of the old saddle but I would not call it wonky. For a saddle with thick foam it is farly light (252 grams). I was told that the old saddle will be abandoned so I suppose the rail saddle will be standard (look at the lower part of the saddle: grip-aerea), perhaps next to the standard Fizik saddle on ti-models. To me it looks like they stay with old-standard seatposts plus microadjustable pentaclip and are not going to built-in-clamps-posts now.
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Old 09-19-08, 02:34 AM   #11
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All minor improvements to the Brompton offering. Like a number of people here I am a Brompton user and will defend its honour as one of the best folding bikes around and I love it. However I share the view with some others too that Brompton need to 'break the mould' a little more. There are some of us who would jump at significant upgrades or truly new innovations. Why oh why won't Brompton move to one shifter sooner rather than later and offer a true 6 speed wide range hub? Why do they refuse to introduce a truly lightweight Brompton below 9kg in the upper pricing bracket? It is far from impossible so why be so conservative in their product development? If Dahon's Curl proves to be a worthy contender and of course Bike Friday's Tikit is a worthy challenger as a compact folder, Brompton do need to up the ante as good as they are at the moment. I do stress 'at the moment'
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Old 09-19-08, 02:47 AM   #12
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... Why oh why won't Brompton move to one shifter sooner rather than later and offer a true 6 speed wide range hub?....
Yeah, thats strange isn't it? Even more if one considers that they were involved into the development of the hub. One wonders why they did not try to work on the new 8 spd from SA - so that this will be ready for bromptons right away?
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Old 09-19-08, 02:48 AM   #13
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Complacency?
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Old 09-19-08, 02:52 AM   #14
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Perhaps? Perhaps there are some advantages in this "dual drive" set up? I mean there are other "dual drives" on the market. Or the costs for development of the 2 sprocket and dérailleur still have to come back in?
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Old 09-19-08, 03:55 AM   #15
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Agreed on dual drives. I've test ridden the SRAM 27 speed dual drive on both a Dahon Speed Pro TT and a TR and its fantastic. Similarly the current Brompton 6 speed dual system is very nice and efficient, it's just those ugly gear shifters take away from an otherwise lovely bike!
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Old 09-19-08, 05:00 AM   #16
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I'm quite sure it's the efficiency thing. A single epicyclic gear instead of 3 means less drag. Personally, however, the difference is so small that I wouldn't go for it in a million years if it meant 2 shifters. I guess it could also be robustness - the original SA hubs will run for 50 years and more with ease - I doubt the newer multis will achieve the same.
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Old 09-21-08, 06:18 AM   #17
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Agreed on dual drives. I've test ridden the SRAM 27 speed dual drive on both a Dahon Speed Pro TT and a TR and its fantastic. Similarly the current Brompton 6 speed dual system is very nice and efficient, it's just those ugly gear shifters take away from an otherwise lovely bike!
I like the Dual drive and my Bianchi Bergamo made me realize that I don't really need a lot of gears. My 24 speed Bergamo is basically a three speed bike since I only use the Dual Drive and not the derailluer anymore. In other words, once I set up the derailluer so that I could have a comfortable all around second gear, there was never a need to go up and down the cassette. The dual drive with its high and low gears are all I need.

I think the Brompton maybe onto something with this wide three speed gear. I would take a wide three speed bike over an 8 speed Nexus if the low can drop to 24' inches because the Strumey Archer hub was too high for huge hills. They would keep the middle at 56' inches and leave the high where it is today. Brompton can ship the bike with several cogs so people can find a comfortable direct drive much like what I was able to do with my Dual drive.
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Old 09-21-08, 07:41 AM   #18
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I think the Brompton maybe onto something with this wide three speed gear. I would take a wide three speed bike over an 8 speed Nexus...
Then just fit a SRAM P5 or S-A SRF5 and never, ever use gears 2 & 4!

However, the 110 year history of geared bicycles tells us that the ratio jumps in such a super-wide three speed will be uncomfortably large for nearly all riders.

tcs

PS - The theoretical and actual efficiency of bicycle gear trains can sometimes be surprisingly different.
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Old 09-21-08, 10:01 AM   #19
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...
However, the 110 year history of geared bicycles tells us that the ratio jumps in such a super-wide three speed will be uncomfortably large for nearly all riders.
...
I doubt its going to be sold as a 3spd, the hub accommodates 2 sprockets so probably only 6 spd. Still wide steps though. It looks like that set-up is not meant for touring /frequent sifting/longer trips but the commuter who would be, happy (like many) with eg. 2 Spd but has "that hill" on his way.

Quote:
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...
I think the Brompton maybe onto something with this wide three speed gear.
A next step could be a 3 sprocket cassette which leaves the brommi with 9 even steps and hopefully one combined shifter then.
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Old 09-21-08, 10:43 PM   #20
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If the updated wide range Sturmey 8 lives up to the hype, and the shifter is improved, in regards to tactile feedback, legibility, quality of materials, etc...it would then be the perfect hub for all small wheel folders, including the Brompton.

The 28 hole variant, with its narrower chainline, as used on the Downtube Mini, should be possible to accomodate with the 19t sprocket that Sturmey offers. As a perk, the 19t sprocket would allow for a smaller front chainring, saving weight and improving the effectiveness of the chainguard.
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Old 09-21-08, 11:10 PM   #21
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My perfect folding bike would definitely be very nice in matt-black, the official Ninja color!
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