...Personally what hsj did was quid pro quo. He came on gave info on the shop and gave recognition the owner was helpful. He also posted constructive feedback on his experience with the bikes.
vincentnyc's intentions to go in and timewaste purely on the basis of he didn't like the shop's online feedback and they sell electeic bikes as a justification frankly is very sad.
u assume i go there to waste time huh? did u realize when i first go there was just to look at the curve and one of the guy ask me if he could help me...i said no...i was just looking around. he offer me a test ride on the curve...u see i never "ask" like u said. i guess u easily skip over where i said i support one of the courtesous lbs where i bought a couple of things from them. so i'm done arguing with miss goody tootshoe over here.
Vik your last 2 posts make perfect common sense. It is different if you test ride a bike with some kind of intention of buying now or in the future. Also, one could test ride and if they like a bike then at least try to ask the owner can they compete with online vendors.
makeinu I agree it is in a shopowner's interests to provide test rides and accept the risk of timewasters. However that doesn't make it right to intentionally timewaste does it or to come on here and declare you are going to go into NYCwheels and try out their bikes just because you decide you don't like the sound of the shop. Does an intelligent regular like you really justify that behaviour? I'd be frankly surprised if you do and your analogy to adverts on a website server is totally flawed logic. A bike shop owner is a human being and also a resource in the shop whilst a website advert is a virtual object. It doesn't bear comparison.
Dealing with timewasters is not just a NYC phenomenon by the way, it's a worldwide one
I'd like to add that at least hsj had the decency to compliment the owner of the shop and feedback his experience on the bikesbut one other poster on this thread is being totally stupi in their comments and selfish in their intentions. It doesn't make it right just because a small business owner should facilitate product demos or tests.
First of all I'm sure that owners of small IT businesses would think that the situation bears comparison rather well and I'm quite surprised to see folks around here minimize the very legitimate value of virtual goods/services given the sometimes vehement opposition to the illegal duplication of protected intellectual (ie virtual) property. Vik used the word "expectation" and the truth is that that correct expectations are worth quite a bit. Is the forum really free or will something be had in return? Is the test ride really free or will something be had in return? What is the probability that something will be had in return? The answers to these questions are very valuable tangible assets (a fact which the world is obviously still struggling to grasp as it reels at the tremendous losses of money invested in the wrong expectations); So asking customers to reveal their full intentions is asking for charity. I hate to say it because I agree that it's rather disrespectful to the human condition to commodify private thoughts, but modern retailers are the ones that started this game. It would be nice if we could all just be upfront, but I doubt you'll get any bike shop to honestly reveal, for example, the profit margin on their bikes or to rightfully advise their customers to invest their money for later instead of spend it. For years retailers have used modern technology to leverage the value of virtual resources like information to extract greater profits and, now that personal computers have somewhat leveled the playing field, retailers are simply getting a dose of their own medicine (and don't tell me about innocent small shops; they also benefit from the economies of scale, business savy, and market research of their suppliers). After all, where is it written in stone that the retailer should always be the one to profit in the retailer/customer relationship? I like to think of myself as a very honest customer, but I have no qualms about deriving greater benefit from an offer than other customers or even the provider just as I'm sure your favorite honest shop has no qualms about charging higher prices than the discount competition, knowing full well that the customer might save money elsewhere. We all have to put food on the table.
Second of all, quite frankly I think it's a poor business decision for shop owners to take on 100% of the risk of owning display models. Obviously the availability of free test rides over rentals or returns that require shipping benefit the manufacturer more than the shops and many retail industries have their demos and displays provided by the manufacturers. If bike shop owners have failed to negotiate similar terms then I can't say I have much sympathy for them because it would seem to be just one more example of what, in my experience, is bike shop owners shirking their responsibilities as businessmen and I, as a customer, have absolutely no intention of bearing the consequences of such failures for them. If you can't take the heat then stay out of the kitchen.
Third of all, although it's probably not my place to say because I'm obviously not Mr Nice Guy either, I agree that Vincent has been acting like a bit of a stup around here. Bad mouthing discount online retailers like Performance Bike for their stocking issues and shipping policies along with stocking dealers like NYCEWheels that don't charge shipping both alike, all the while barely even understanding the value of the products themselves. A good local shop that can demonstrate their aptitude and willingness to service your bike is usually well worth the slight MSRP markup. While I don't object to playing hardball, a test ride is a golden opportunity to see what you're going to get as a paying customer, not just in manufacture, but also in assembly, service, etc; a golden opportunity which Vincent seems eager to squander.
Hi guys, I like this Forum much.
I am always stunned by the amount of respect, intelligence and willingness to help. I also enjoy the threads where there is a little poison to find, a little tenseness in discussion, as this "anger" often comes along with a special quality of clearsight, the ability to make precise distinctions, which is not so easily found in harmonic atmosphere.
Then sometimes a little troll plays around here, wasting my reading time by asking misguided questions, which could be answered by himself by spending some seconds searching the net or the like. Or the troll stresses my nerves by not taking the time by accusing other members...well, then I realise how very seldom this happens in comparison and how intelligent, patient and forbearing you blokes are and I like the Forum even more
I guess if some of u feel inferior answering "stupid" questions, maybe the forum mod should make a separate section for noobs and experts. That way for some of u so call expert are not annoyed by "stupid" questions. Some if u so call experts sure make noob welcome here.
If you have a problem with that then perhaps you'd like to make a thread about it instead of obsessing over it with your sig and stalking me like a lunatic.
LOL! It seems that you like dishing it out, but when the heat is on you, you get annoyed! Frankly I am not surprised that you would take the side 'tough cookies' approach by saying that using LBS's in the manner that vincent uses them is fair game. Sounds like something you would do.
Originally Posted by makeinu
For a bike without a derailleur you really don't need to oil the chain at all and I don't oil the chains on any of my folding bikes.
Sorry eastbiker I would disagee. I would hazard a guess from reading makeinu's posts on this forums that he would be a demanding buyer and analyse everything to death but that he would also buy in the end; at the right time in the right place and then be a loyal customer.
Sorry, you are right. But please don't take it personally. People tend to wander off-topic here and I personally like that mods are not ultra strict with that. Still you did a good thread start and if I was near that shop I would be glad to have that info you gave