Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    4,248
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Schwalbe 20x1.6" Marathon Sumpreme

    I've just installed these on a NWT with DM18 Alex Rims. They take repeated installation to seat correctly, a bit of silicone lube on the bead and replacement of the cloth velox rim tape with something narrower. It's not that they seat tight or are hard to get on, they aren't, it's that the bead has a hard time seating evenly on the rim. Same thing happened with Schwalbe Big Apples on these rims.
    First go around with the Big Apples difficulty seemed to coincide with the rim tape riding high out of the spoke well. Replaced it and they went on evenly. Similar thing with the 1.6" Supremes.

    I haven't taken them out for a ride yet but there's a disturbing variation in the side wall width at one spot where it looks like two fabrics overlap.

    Curious if other folks have used these, I'm new to 20" folding bikes and the associated tires but at $60 a tire the things shouldn't go wop wop wop while riding. Be back with feedback, roads nice and wet right now.

  2. #2
    aka Phil Jungels Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    North Aurora, IL
    My Bikes
    Road & Hybrid
    Posts
    5,485
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Don't tell me that! I'm waiting for mine to get here.......

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    4,248
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey, you get to tell me how good yours are and I'll just think I was unlucky. They're pumped up to about 75psi. Ok, back from short ride up and down a wet long hill, they've been inflated for 1 1/2hr. I gotta say the tread and ride is exactly as advertised, fast and smooth, and feels secure, although I"m not in the mood to slam on the brakes 25mph down a wet road with a drop into a ditch with brambles or cars going 45mph. I don't think a person would need to get a narrower hi pressure tire for fast touring.
    The ride back is through a muddy parking lot and over some metal grate. They are fast tires and not slippery,,although mud is slippery anywhere. I got the 700x35 Supremes for a friends bike and was very impressed with the handling although the very slight out of roundness was similar it wasn't noticable riding. It IS on one of the 20"x1.6" wheels that has the perturbation.

    The only other tires I've had on the bike so far with a few hundred miles riding are the 1.75 Kenda v-Monster and the 2.0 Big Apples which will fit in the rear triangle of the NWT, I've got a fat/Llama front fork with this bike so anything big will fit there. These are noticably faster rolling than the Apples and Kenda, for some reason the Kenda feels slower than the big Apple, maybe the small blocky treads squirm a bit.

    But that sidewall lump/indentation is still there and does generate a wop, wop, wop. It causes the width of the tire to vary as there's a 1 1/2" patch on the sidewall that's narrower than the rest of the sidewall and that's where the tire is out of round. The tire is seated properly after the above procedures. It's not like a casing failure on an old tire, it's an obvious transition of width as though there was another piece of material underneath it with an angled end. The slight variations in the good one make me think I don't have a one in a thousand boo boo but something that's in the bell curve of their production.

    Kind of a pisser as I'm heading out on Tuesday and I really am not too keen on a couple days of wop,wop,wop as the other tires are fine.

    I've owned dozens of bikes and used to own a bike shop so I'm familiar with variations in a product. This is kind of like those old cheapo sewups where the tread and rim tape wandered all around the tire. Except it's not out of round or funny tread, the material is all high quality, it's one 1" 1/2" spot of slight indentation.

    Hiho.

    I do have to give Schwalbe compliments for lightning fast service over the internet. With the fast delivery I"ve got a $68 wop wop tire and one $68 non-wop wop tire.

  4. #4
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    My Bikes
    Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
    Posts
    5,181
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have the same issue with a Marathon Racer. To fix the issue, over-inflate the tire until the bead sets in the rim. I inflate the tire to about 140-150 PSI then "blip", the last part of the bead will set, and I deflate the tire to an appropriate pressure.

    Just keep your eye on the spot. Sometimes there is no sound ...

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    4,248
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I didn't have the problem with the 26x1.5" marathon racers on my other bike. It's specific and noticable on these rims and tires. It doesn't happen with the Kenda tires. I'm a little shy about putting 150psi into tires rated at 60-85lbs with a hand pump when my head is 12" from the tire.

    What kind of rims do you have?

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    4,248
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    oh heck with it. It's both tires. I noticed the one with the narrow sidewall section and figured it was that one but it's also the front one also where the side wall fabric overlaps about 1/2". I deflated it and remounted it and it's the same. The circumference of the tire drops abruptly at that point where the sidewall fabric seam overlaps with an enlarged section 5" away. It's a similar variation on the other tire with the obvious sidewall flat spot. The tire beads are seated correctly, it's obvious at the bead. Both tires have variations in circumferance of the sidewall at the seam and elsewhere that it affects road feedback at high speeds and normal high pressure. If they were $15 2.125 BMX tires for dirt riding it wouldn't matter but at high pressure and relative narrow road contact it's not what I want for touring.

    The Fat Apple and Kenda do not have this kind of variation, it's obvious spinning the tire and riding. I think these variations could be acceptable in a fat 700c tire but at relatively high pressure (for a 1.6 tire,,rated pressure) and 20" diameter it stands out way too much riding on ashphalt, wop,wop,wop.

    high ho and to the fat ones!

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    4,248
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ok,,it's possible I'm too sensitive for my own good. Rode into town and back, 24m. with the supreme on the back and Big Apple on the front and it's all fine. I can feel a tiny 'woop, woop,woop' on the back wheel but it's acceptable so I wonder if some of this is that it was on the front where there's less weight it's more noticable. I wonder if the perturbation would be less noticable with panniers/weight on the front.

  8. #8
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    My Bikes
    Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
    Posts
    5,181
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    I didn't have the problem with the 26x1.5" marathon racers on my other bike. It's specific and noticable on these rims and tires. It doesn't happen with the Kenda tires. I'm a little shy about putting 150psi into tires rated at 60-85lbs with a hand pump when my head is 12" from the tire.

    What kind of rims do you have?
    Alex rims ... I can't remember the precise model. But they are the standard model that BF uses.

    If it makes you feel better, before I actually tried pumping the tire to almost 100% maximum I talked to a bunch of old mechanics and bike restorers including an exchange with the Harris Cyclery guys. Essentially, their answer was that they have done it in the past with no issues.

    From Sheldon ...

    Seating a Tire that Dips Inward

    If your tire dips inward at one spot, it is usually a sign of an unusually tight fit. This may make it a bit of a struggle to install the tire, but it also means that you can get away with considerable overinflation with no risk of blowing the tire off the rim. Indeed, the best way to seat a "dipping" tire is by temporariliy overinflating it until it "pops" into position.

    In some cases it may be beneficial to lubricate the side of the tire. This can be done with soapy water, but I usually use spray window cleaner for this, because it doesn't leave a soapy residue on the braking surface of the rim.


    I tried using window cleaner, but after doing so I experienced a rash of rim-flats due to rim tape sliding over underneath the tube. When I stopped using window cleaner, the rim-flats ceased too. My guess is that some soap seaped into the rim tape loosening the glue. Maybe I used too much, but I tried applying it with care.

  9. #9
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    My Bikes
    Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
    Posts
    5,181
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    The tire beads are seated correctly, it's obvious at the bead.
    If you are positive of this then it sounds like the tires are defective.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •