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  1. #1
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    Are Dahons really that bad?

    I have a Brompton which I bought about 2 months ago. I LOVE it and use it almost every day. For me, small fold was important because I plan to take it occasionally on small buses and subways. Anyway, I have been enjoying riding so much that my partner decided he'd like to get a new bike so we could ride together on weekends. I thought it would be great if he had a folder too, because we'd be much more likely to go on rides if it meant we didn't have to go through the hassle and time it takes to attach a bike rack to the car and attach the bikes to the rack, etc., etc. but if we could rather just put the folded bikes in the car trunk whenever we felt like going somewhere for a bike ride. The thing is that really small fold is not so important for him, as he will not be taking it on buses and subways. It just has to be small enough to fit in the trunk along with my Brompton. Of course, quality of ride is important too, as well as the ease of folding. He would also like to keep spending substantially lower than what I paid for the Brompton.

    So, anyway, today we visited a bike shop to check out Downtubes. We test rode 3 models - all 9 speeds, 1 with derailleur, 1 with derailleur and suspension, and 1 with hub. The range of speeds on the model with the hub was ridiculous to me - the low gear no where near as low as I'd like for climbing hills, and the high way higher than he'd ever need. The range of gears on the models with the derailleur, on the other hand, seemed perfect. The ride on all three was fine, but nothing outstanding. I felt sort of stiff riding it, and didn't love the handlebars with the ends sticking up. But overall, it was fine. The fold, on the other hand, was just plain clumsy, and when folded it doesn't stay folded (unless you tie it with a bungy). That didn't impress Brompton-owning me, and it really turned my partner off.

    So, we were about the leave the store when the owner suggested we try out the Dahon, which I hadn't noticed. I've read and heard a lot about the Dahons, and had even put the Curve on my short list when I was shopping for my folder, but I never actually tried one out. The model they had was a Speed 7. My partner tried it out first. He was much more pleased with the folding - smaller, more elegant, and stays together, and he liked the ride, although honestly he didn't feel a great difference between it and the Downtubes we had tried. But when I took it for a ride I had a much stronger reaction. This bike felt smooth to ride, and I *enjoyed* riding it. I can't really explain exactly why, but I felt the riding position to be more natural and pleasurable, and less "upright/stiff" than the Downtube. I really enjoyed riding it. It had that fun-factor I get from riding my Brompton.

    So, here's the dilemma. Of all the folding bikes I've read and heard about, the Dahon's are the ones that I associate with the most negative comments I've come across in terms of quality. Now I'm left wondering, are there quality issues that turn up after a certain amount of riding? Do all those negative comments I've come across apply to current models of Dahons? To all models? I recently brought my Brompton into an extremely high-end bike store to have a second chainring added (granny gears), and while chatting with one of the workers about shopping for a second folder for my partner he warned me to stay away from Dahons - told me how some Dahon owner had come in for some work on his bike, and how terrible and shabby they thought it was (they sell the Tikit, but he was not trying to sell me one - we were both clear it was not in our price range - he recommended a look at the Swift, which they don't sell).

    So, my question - what's the story about Dahons? I don't want to steer my partner to get a shabby bike that won't hold up. I plan to take my partner to try out a Swift, but after that I can't think of any other less expensive folders that he should consider. Perhaps some of you may have some suggestions?

  2. #2
    jur
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    Dahons are very nice bikes, but they do require regular maintenance for some fiddly bits, most notably the handlepost hinge and latch, and to a lesser extent the frame hinge and latch. It is important that you learn how to adjust these things to avoid regular trips to the LBS.

    Other things are not particular of Dahons but still should be learnt to adjust, such as derailers for optimum shifting, and brakes.

    Dahon has AFAIK a policy that each bike before it leaves the shop must be given a good tune-up by the shop owner. In this regard it helps a lot to choose a shop owner who actually knows how these bikes work. There are a number of these shops, Bfold, Thor (Brakemeister on this forum) and J Gaerlan who are some of the most highly praised Dahon sellers.

    So no, Dahons are not really terrible, if they were they wouldn't be able to stay in business. Dahons offer good value and quality but keep a very very sharp eye on those hinge latches that everything is always nice and tight with NO play, or you may end up where you don't want to be. Other than that, if the Dahon appeals, go for it.
    My folding bike photo essays www.dekter.net/

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerrys88 View Post
    So, here's the dilemma. Of all the folding bikes I've read and heard about, the Dahon's are the ones that I associate with the most negative comments I've come across in terms of quality. Now I'm left wondering, are there quality issues that turn up after a certain amount of riding? Do all those negative comments I've come across apply to current models of Dahons? To all models? I recently brought my Brompton into an extremely high-end bike store to have a second chainring added (granny gears), and while chatting with one of the workers about shopping for a second folder for my partner he warned me to stay away from Dahons - told me how some Dahon owner had come in for some work on his bike, and how terrible and shabby they thought it was

    So, my question - what's the story about Dahons? I don't want to steer my partner to get a shabby bike that won't hold up. I plan to take my partner to try out a Swift, but after that I can't think of any other less expensive folders that he should consider. Perhaps some of you may have some suggestions?
    I think the Swift is a fine bike and probably more durable than either a Dahon or Brompton.

    The problem with Dahon is they make folders costing over 1K and others just barely over $200.00 dollars! As you can imagine, the bikes costing 1K have much better quality with good components. However, Dahon still gets trashed because their bargain bikes are the ones that sell the most and they tend to have issues with quality.

    Another problem with Dahon tends to be with the handlebar which are flexy and the seat post that slide down. However, the seat post issue can be resolved but the handlebar requires you to not ride out of the saddle. Another problem with Dahon are the lack of special parts once the bike is older than five years. However, you can always get parts, just not the ones that came with the bike.

    Personally, many bike shops try to sell the higher end Bromptons and Bike Fridays and will only push the Dahon if they think you can't afford the more expensive brands. Like you discovered, the Dahon is well made and I like the ride. The Dahon 20' inch models are actually faster than the Brompton because the frame has no suspension. I tested the Curve SL today and found that bike is faster at accleration than the Brompton.

    Tell your partner to get the Dahon Speed P8. I had that bike in a 7 Speed and regret selling it for a song. Trust me, that bike is actually faster than your Brompton but yours is probably more comfortable. The only Dahon I would avoid getting is the Espresso becuase the frame flexes too much and overall quality suffers to keep the price down.

    Just tell your partner not to stand on the pedals and put too much weight on the handlebars. If he rides it and not abuses the bike it should last for years.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post

    Another problem with Dahon tends to be with the handlebar which are flexy and the seat post that slide down. However, the seat post issue can be resolved.
    Hi Steve,

    I was wondering if you could tell us how to cure the seatpost slippage issue ? Mine is sinking like the titanic - 5mm after 10-15 of light riding.

    By the way, my wife and I tried a couple of Bromptons today, my impression ? No fun factor whatsoever, this bike is nothing but business and not in a good way, it folds fairly small but the ride quality is pretty bad, shifters and brakes are just old school, the brakes didn't work well at all and the S handle post with the flat handle bar is too low and cannot be adjusted. If I were to make a decision on a $1100 bike it would be the Mu SL no doubt.

  5. #5
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    The higher end Dahons are very good. I have just bought a Mu SL and it is an excellent ride.

  6. #6
    Senior Member GTALuigi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mulleady View Post
    The higher end Dahons are very good. I have just bought a Mu SL and it is an excellent ride.
    make that 2
    and i know of several people in town with a Mu SL as well

  7. #7
    Senior Member GTALuigi's Avatar
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    for the seat post, like any other bike with a fast release clip, you just need to adjust the tension of the clip every now and then.

    for the handle post, as mentioned above, you'll also need to perform minor maintenance to adjust it and keep it tight.

    if you are not comfortable with a wrench / screw drivers / and hex keys... then just take it to your LBS.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy C View Post
    Hi Steve,

    I was wondering if you could tell us how to cure the seatpost slippage issue ? Mine is sinking like the titanic - 5mm after 10-15 of light riding.

    By the way, my wife and I tried a couple of Bromptons today, my impression ? No fun factor whatsoever, this bike is nothing but business and not in a good way, it folds fairly small but the ride quality is pretty bad, shifters and brakes are just old school, the brakes didn't work well at all and the S handle post with the flat handle bar is too low and cannot be adjusted. If I were to make a decision on a $1100 bike it would be the Mu SL no doubt.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTALuigi View Post
    for the seat post, like any other bike with a fast release clip, you just need to adjust the tension of the clip every now and then.
    It was the first thing I had tried. No matter how tight the QR clamp is, it still slips, I have used both hands with a lot of force... and guess what ? it slips. 3 bike mechanics couldn't fix it. The frame could be defective, I don't know... anyhow I will be getting another Dahon after trying a Brommie earlier today and didn't feel the passion to ride it. It really feels like it was designed in the mid 60's... very poor ride compare to the Mu IMO.

  9. #9
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    I love my Dahons. They are as nice a bike as any non-folder you might get in the same price range. They have a basic folding design that has been tested by many years in production and thousands and thousands of Dahon riders. They have a tight fold compared to anything else under a grand.

    I tried a Downtube based on the oft-repeated "bang for the buck" and didn't get the bang part at all. Test riding like you did is definitely the way to pick the best bike for your needs.

  10. #10
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    i've got a speed pro 07, had it a year and its excellent. Can cover 18 miles over one hour no problem. Wheels have survived nasty potholes, i'm not too heavy and sometimes do ride out of the saddle but i keep most of my weight on the pedals (i'm slightly wary of the handlepost latch). The stelvio tyres are great, the other day noticed a hole in the back one 3mm wide and about 4mm deep (!) still no puncture! Plugged the hole with silicon sealant. I sold my old claud butler for 140, got the pro new for 620 so a 750 bike only 'really' cost me 480! I'll deffo get another Dahon in the future.

  11. #11
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    I have 3 Dahons. All reliable. They all ride like proper bikes, not some circus toy.

    I suspect the real reason that you come across so much criticism of Dahons is simply because they sell more folders than anyone else.

    They like to innovate, and occasionally make a turkey, but my impression is that the majority of complaints come from people who haven't bought through a bike shop, so they are buying a bike that is not properly setup in the first place.

    One problem with folders is that they do have special requirements for maintenance. There has to be compromises to make a bike fold. They require intelligent maintenance and if they don't get it, they become problems.

  12. #12
    pooh bear joose's Avatar
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    Dahon has AFAIK a policy that each bike before it leaves the shop must be given a good tune-up by the shop owner. In this regard it helps a lot to choose a shop owner who actually knows how these bikes work. There are a number of these shops, Bfold, Thor (Brakemeister on this forum) and J Gaerlan who are some of the most highly praised Dahon sellers.

    They like to innovate, and occasionally make a turkey, but my impression is that the majority of complaints come from people who haven't bought through a bike shop, so they are buying a bike that is not properly setup in the first place.

    I'd strongly recommend dealing with a LBS who sells Dahons. My bike wasn't properly set up and most of my intial problems have stemmed from that.

    For your partners needs, I would be inclined to recommend a 20" wheel bike. I have the 16" Curve D3 and I find it impossible to get the bike to be comfy over longer distances (8 miles and more). I have a sprung brooks saddle and eargon grips to improve the ride but I think the geomentry is simply more suited to short (5 miles) distance? The other thing I would be inclined to do is to go for tried and tested designs with lots of standard parts as all these things will give you less problems over the longer term. Steel bikes are also meant to give a more comfy ride as they transfer less of the roads vibrations into the rider
    Last edited by joose; 10-01-08 at 04:27 AM.

  13. #13
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    I love my Dahon. Had same issues mentioned above: seatpost slippage, frame hinge.
    Plus some that aren't Dahon-specific: off-center wheel, squeaky brake, misadjusted shifter.

    That said, I'm surprised you didn't like the DT Mini.

  14. #14
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    I have mixed feelings about Dahons.

    The good things are that they have a pretty good fold, the company updates models every year, and they cover a wide range of bike types and prices. They've gotten better at making the bikes a little more adjustable.

    The bad things are that they tend to have some proprietary parts, which a few years down the line can be hard to replace if they break; and the handleposts tend to be very flexy. So it's a bad plan to pull back on the bars, especially when climbing.

    IMO they're very good for some tasks, especially commuting and general riding. If you think you will ride 100+ miles a week, I'd opt for something a little more solid.

    One caveat on the impressions of negative comments.... Dahon is by far the largest maker of folding bikes, so in general you're likely to hear more comments (good and bad) about them than any other maker.

  15. #15
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    Joose, can you elaborate on what's uncomfortable? I still find my 20" Dahon too harsh, but not excessively so unless the road surface is really bad (with Big Apple tyres). The geometry is good, the saddle-to-handlebar length fits me just right with the saddle almost fully back in the post clamp. Are you not able to stretch forward enough on the mini?

  16. #16
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    Thanks everyone for all your responses. It appears that there are four areas of concern

    1) frame hinge
    2) handlebar hinge/latch
    3) proprietary parts
    4) seatpost slipage

    1) FRAME HINGE - is this just a matter of tightening the thumbscrew so when you close the latch it closes tighter? I don't quite understand why this is being cited as a particular Dahon problem - I mean, don't all latches work the same way (eg. the latch that I open and close to raise and lower the seat on my Brompton). This latch on my Brompton hasn't required tigthtening after 2 months of use, and I think if it ever did it would be obvious because the latch would feel loose when I closed the latch. I would think all such latches would have the same tendency to go loose over time and tightening the thumbscrew is so easy I would not consider it a problem unless it happened with great frequency. Why is the Dahon especially problematic?

    2) HANDLEBAR HINGE/LATCH - If I couldn't stand up on my Brompton pedals and pull up or put weight on my handlebars I think I would consider that a serious limitation. Again, is the latch on the Dahon designed differently from others?

    3) PROPRIETARY PARTS - I'll put that on my "to consider" list. From what I've read the Xootr Swift does not use a lot of proprietary parts - something we'll take into account when we test ride it.

    4) SEATPOST SLIPAGE - This worries me, too. It seems some (most?) avoid/fix this by simply tightening the latch, but apparently others have had no luck fixing this problem. If it is unfixable would that be covered by warranty? I would consider that a serious flaw and would want a replacement bike if it truly could not be cured by simple latch tightening.

  17. #17
    Senior Member law4jba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerrys88 View Post

    4) SEATPOST SLIPAGE - This worries me, too. It seems some (most?) avoid/fix this by simply tightening the latch, but apparently others have had no luck fixing this problem. If it is unfixable would that be covered by warranty? I would consider that a serious flaw and would want a replacement bike if it truly could not be cured by simple latch tightening.

    Boeshield T-9 is a solvated parafin wax lubricant. Used sparingly on the seatpost should prevent the seatpost from slipping.

    My swift seatpost slid down when I first got it. T-9 has stopped this from happening. It also works well as a chain lubricant/cleaner

  18. #18
    pooh bear joose's Avatar
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    chagzuki

    Firstly let me describe myself.

    I'm 30, male, reasonably fit, 5'10, 14 stones. I'm heavy for my height because I'm broad not fat.

    To improve my comfit on the Curve I have:

    • Fitted GR2 Ergon grips to reduce vibration which was making my palms and wrists ache. Also, fitting them allows me to hold the barends for a change of position. (http://www.ergon-bike.com/en/grips/gr2.html)

      I also wear bikehut extreme gloves which have heavy padding for shock absorbtion. (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/s...egoryrn_103718)

      My seat has been upgraded twice. Once from a style I use to use on my hybrid bike (45), then realised I was not stretched out enough for it to work so changed it to a Brooks Sprung Flyer, which is set as far back as possible.(http://www.brooksengland.com/shop/sh...------------42)

      My tires are at the maximum PSI which I will lower the pressure soon, I just wanted to try them out at this pressure first.


    These are all the things I have done to the bike to improve the ride.

    However, my real problems are.. and which I don't think I can solve.

    If I extend the seat post fully out for my legs, I'm really hunched over in a short space which hurts my wrists and give me quite bad backache.

    If I lower the seat enough for that to stop, my legs and knees hurt and my wrists still hurt.

    My handlebars are as high as they can go.

    For short distances, for me personally up to 5 miles its fine, over that is where I get the problems.

    I want to say that these problems are mine and don't mean that others would notice anything? The other thing to say is that I believe personally I chose the wrong size bike and I would of been better on a 20" bike so that I could of stretched out more.

    Hindsight is a wonderful thing In my defence, I was not expecting to travel the full distance home each night from work (9 miles) but I'm enjoying cycling again so much!!!

    So for me (I speak for no others) I would now choose a 20" bike so that I could stretch out more (or perhaps a Mezzo as they seem to be wide?), I would choose steel so less vibration came through the frame. Otherwise, If I was to stick to my original plan (which was to travel halfway to work on the train and halfway back for some good exercise) I would choose a Strida as I believe it would be fine upto the 5 miles I do by travelling on the train and when on the train I would have the minimum of fuss with it.

  19. #19
    Banned. folder fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerrys88 View Post
    ......The thing is that really small fold is not so important for him, as he will not be taking it on buses and subways. It just has to be small enough to fit in the trunk along with my Brompton. Of course, quality of ride is important too, as well as the ease of folding. He would also like to keep spending substantially lower than what I paid for the Brompton.....So, we were about the leave the store when the owner suggested we try out the Dahon, which I hadn't noticed. I've read and heard a lot about the Dahons, and had even put the Curve on my short list when I was shopping for my folder, but I never actually tried one out. The model they had was a Speed 7. My partner tried it out first. He was much more pleased with the folding - smaller, more elegant, and stays together, and he liked the ride, although honestly he didn't feel a great difference between it and the Downtubes we had tried. But when I took it for a ride I had a much stronger reaction. This bike felt smooth to ride, and I *enjoyed* riding it. I can't really explain exactly why, but I felt the riding position to be more natural and pleasurable, and less "upright/stiff" than the Downtube. I really enjoyed riding it. It had that fun-factor I get from riding my Brompton.

    So, here's the dilemma. Of all the folding bikes I've read and heard about, the Dahon's are the ones that I associate with the most negative comments I've come across in terms of quality. Now I'm left wondering, are there quality issues that turn up after a certain amount of riding? Do all those negative comments I've come across apply to current models of Dahons? To all models? I recently brought my Brompton into an extremely high-end bike store to have a second chainring added (granny gears), and while chatting with one of the workers about shopping for a second folder for my partner he warned me to stay away from Dahons - told me how some Dahon owner had come in for some work on his bike, and how terrible and shabby they thought it was (they sell the Tikit, but he was not trying to sell me one - we were both clear it was not in our price range - he recommended a look at the Swift, which they don't sell).

    So, my question - what's the story about Dahons? I don't want to steer my partner to get a shabby bike that won't hold up. I plan to take my partner to try out a Swift, but after that I can't think of any other less expensive folders that he should consider. Perhaps some of you may have some suggestions?
    I am a proud owner of both Dahons and a Brompton. My Dahons are the 2003 Boardwalk S1 and the 2006 Piccolo. My Brompton is the simple C or Companion model. All models are discontinued by their makers, but I don't think it will be an issue here. The Boardwalk was my first folder. I had it now almost 5 years. I can truly say that except for the first month I had it, I never really had any major problems with it. I keep it clean and adjusted myself with minimum work or mechanical knowledge. I am about to take it into the shop for a major overhaul tomarrow. But I don't think it is vastly different than any other bike. The critical thing about Dahons that everything can (and does) go wrong with the bike during the first month of ownership. Providing that you address it immediately by taking it back to the shop and fix it, it will serve you well for the rest of the time you have it. I had an nearly identical experience with the Piccolo a few years later. The bike shop was way better in handling the problem that bike had during the same time frame. And no more problem with that other bike either. My Brompton after it's initial tune-up never gave me any problem. If you look at lesser priced folders, consider Dahons-just make sure they are steel frame ones (Speed models are) and have most of the features you want in a bike. And don't skip tune ups!

  20. #20
    jur
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerrys88 View Post
    2) HANDLEBAR HINGE/LATCH - If I couldn't stand up on my Brompton pedals and pull up or put weight on my handlebars I think I would consider that a serious limitation. Again, is the latch on the Dahon designed differently from others?
    I'll just mention this one - Dahon designs are fairly unique, especially the handlepost hinge. The latch mech tends to loosen as it has a lot of screw threads which are not positively retained. This leads to some play in the handlepost which can -

    1)fold suddenly and unexpectedly OR
    2)break off at the hinge

    Neither case needs hard riding, just normal riding in the saddle. The potential for grave injury is obvious.

    That said, it appears despite this design flaw there are many many owners who never experience this problem (or they never report it, just adjust often).

    I am not aware of any other folder which has the same problem.
    My folding bike photo essays www.dekter.net/

  21. #21
    Life in Mono
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    Quote Originally Posted by joose View Post
    chagzuki

    If I extend the seat post fully out for my legs, I'm really hunched over in a short space which hurts my wrists and give me quite bad backache.

    If I lower the seat enough for that to stop, my legs and knees hurt and my wrists still hurt.

    My handlebars are as high as they can go.

    I would choose a Strida as I believe it would be fine upto the 5 miles I do by travelling on the train and when on the train I would have the minimum of fuss with it.
    FWIW (sorry a bit off topic) ... I too have a doggy back and find riding in sporty positions I used to like (ie seat above bars), now aggravates it. This is where I find the upright position (as Strida, dutch bikes etc.) is brilliant ... feels like back massage instead of torture. In this position I just keep going .. 5, 10, 15, 20 miles ..... no sweat (literally). I know for faster speeds (16mph+) wind is an issue so bend back bend - but for everyday to and from work why push it ? ... you know you'll smell unless you've got a shower at work !

  22. #22
    pooh bear joose's Avatar
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    Simple Simon

    Funny you should say that as I'm really looking into Dutch bikes as well! In a ideal world somebody would swap their Strida (3.2 and above) for my Curve. I would use that for my commute and get a lovely Dutch bike down the line for pleasure/longer rides with my wife.

    Regardless, that is I think my longer term plan

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerrys88 View Post
    Thanks everyone for all your responses. It appears that there are four areas of concern

    1) frame hinge
    2) handlebar hinge/latch
    3) proprietary parts
    4) seatpost slipage

    1) FRAME HINGE -Why is the Dahon especially problematic?

    2) HANDLEBAR HINGE/LATCH - If I couldn't stand up on my Brompton pedals and pull up or put weight on my handlebars I think I would consider that a serious limitation. Again, is the latch on the Dahon designed differently from others?

    3) PROPRIETARY PARTS - I'll put that on my "to consider" list. From what I've read the Xootr Swift does not use a lot of proprietary parts - something we'll take into account when we test ride it.

    4) SEATPOST SLIPAGE - This worries me, too. It seems some (most?) avoid/fix this by simply tightening the latch, but apparently others have had no luck fixing this problem. If it is unfixable would that be covered by warranty? I would consider that a serious flaw and would want a replacement bike if it truly could not be cured by simple latch tightening.
    1. First, you have a new Brompton and it hasn't given you any problems. In about five years, you'll feel quite differently about the amount of repairs that await you. If you ride your folder every day, I expect you'll end up buying a new one by year 4 or 5. Happens to all of us.

    The handlebar is the weak point of the Dahon folder. However, it's not really a problem because you'll notice when it's time to tighen it.

    2. Proprietary parts are not really an issue. There are still first generation Dahons still on the road since the early 1990s. Should my proprietary handlebar brake, putting a new one on is quite easy. It won't be the same color or size but will work. Other than the main frame hinge, all other parts can be replaced. Not a serious flaw.

    3. Seat Post slippage -- Not a problem. I have three Dahon's and fixed this problem easily. There's only one person on this forum who hasn't been able to fix this problem. There are quite a few solutions and this issue has been discussed and resolved on the Dahon forum.

    4. Frame Hinge -- Other than some squeeks, it's fine. You can also cure the squeeks too.
    2.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
    The handlebar is the weak point of the Dahon folder. However, it's not really a problem because you'll notice when it's time to tighen it.
    That makes sense to me, Steve, but does that also mean that as long as one keeps the latch tightened then there is no problem pulling up on handlebars when standing on pedals?

  25. #25
    Senior Member GTALuigi's Avatar
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    In the end not all Dahons are the same.

    You can't compare a $200 Dahon, vs. a $1000+ one.

    is just like buying your MTB at your local walmart for $90 vs. buying a real MTB for $1000

    If you ask people that complains about Dahons, it'll be from the group of people that bought the mid to low end variations of Dahons.

    Ask any mid high, or high end Dahon owners, and you'll get positive feedback.

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