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  1. #1
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    Am i a CRAZY to upgrade my Citizen Tokyo..

    hi all,

    i am thinking of upgrading my citizen tokyo with a 7 speed and triple crankset (maybe a disc brake will come in too) so i will have a 21 speed Citizen Tokyo. the people at citizen told me it might be doable but they haven't heard, nor done nor seen anyone did this. hey, i figured out since i spent less money on this one, why not do something fun. i like tinkering things. at first i was thinking on getting a sturmey archer since it's a drop in replacement but had a change of mind and i just want to do it one at a time. currently i have placed an order for a Selle XO seat and a 7 speed shifter/brake combination. the 7 speed cassette and rear and front derailleurs is forth coming. also i will change the crankset into a triple shimano cranksets. some might say why not just get a downtube, dahon, tikit or birdy. but it's the fun factor of working on something you think will not work and when it does work you had the feeling of satisfaction. crazy, ha.....anyone had experience with the upgrade ? i would really appreciate any input...

    thanks again,
    vic

  2. #2
    rhm
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    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
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    Go to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator and put in the numbers.

    The Tokyo already has low gears; putting a triple on the front will get you a wide variety of even lower ones, but will not get you much in the way of higher gears. So if, for example, you get a 52T large chain ring, and a 11T smallest cog, your top speed at 120 rpm will be 22.7 mph. If you just get a Sturmey Archer 8-sp hub, 120 rpm can get you up to 29.3 mph.

  3. #3
    Building a better Strida
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    I have yet to see anyone on a folder, do more than 50 rpm.

    i crank about 90 on my strida copy.. but thats all the seating posture/geometric limitations, can permit safely.

  4. #4
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    Higher Gears on my Tokyo, not lower

    Quote Originally Posted by rhm View Post
    Go to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator and put in the numbers.

    The Tokyo already has low gears; putting a triple on the front will get you a wide variety of even lower ones, but will not get you much in the way of higher gears. So if, for example, you get a 52T large chain ring, and a 11T smallest cog, your top speed at 120 rpm will be 22.7 mph. If you just get a Sturmey Archer 8-sp hub, 120 rpm can get you up to 29.3 mph.
    Heaven knows I don't want lower gears on MY Tokyo. I'm spinning on flats and downhills as it is. I haven't even used 1st gear yet. I'm already thinking bigger chainring and I've only owned the bike for a week.

  5. #5
    rhm
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCFlack View Post
    Heaven knows I don't want lower gears on MY Tokyo. I'm spinning on flats and downhills as it is. I haven't even used 1st gear yet. I'm already thinking bigger chainring and I've only owned the bike for a week.
    My point precisely. This is a good deal on a 60T chain ring; get the cheapest Shimano 105 (or similar) crank you can find on ebay, and maybe you can get over 20 mph! This is why I lobby for the Sturmey Archer 8-speed hub option.
    Last edited by rhm; 03-20-09 at 06:05 AM. Reason: The link was missing. Fixed.

  6. #6
    Pedaling fool ShinyBiker's Avatar
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    You already have an entry level bike why not just wait until the parts start breaking down then replace them as they age. I’ve been in that situation and the costs to do an upgrade up front really wear you down. You look at your cash outlays and say, “Man, I coulda had a Birdy/Brompton/BF/Dahon by now.“ You may not even have to wait until your parts die, just when something irritates you about your ride like the shifter is not shifting smoothly, brakes are making noise etc.

    One way your strategy could make sense is if you have a skeleton yard of parts that you could swap out already.

  7. #7
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    If you need wider gearing, you have 2 options: Sram Dualdrive or Sturmey 8.
    Internal Gear Hub Guru
    Currently owned hubs: Sachs Pentasport, SRAM P5 Drum, Sturmey SRF5-W , Sturmey XRD3
    Previously owned hubs: Shimano Nexus 8 speed, Sturmey AW 3 speed, Shimano 3 speed coaster, SRAM S7 Drum, Sturmey XRF8 8 speed
    Tested hubs: SRAM i-Motion 9 speed, Sturmey XRD5

  8. #8
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    thanks guys. point taken. i will hold off and just get the sturmey archer for an upgrade later. and just save some so that i can get myself a better folder (a birdy maybe ?)...

    thanks again,
    vic

  9. #9
    transport, not sport.
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    I am sure a smart upgrade right now, is to follow the leader's path.
    for 16'" wheel, why don't you just copy the dahon curve d3 set up?
    48t chainring (on the dahon curve it is a 46t)
    14t cog (or 13t if you can find one, like on the curve)
    3 speed internal hub( SA? SRAM? nexus? )
    you will get 73 gear inches high gear.
    and 40 gear lows.
    if still not satisfied with the highs, go with 53t cranks (in indonesia there is this 20 dollars only, lasco brand)
    but certainly you will get not low enough lows...

    or...

    a capreo hub and cassette?
    (I am lurking at this myself)

  10. #10
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    tedi,

    sounds interesting. i was thinking that adding triple cranks and 7 speed shimano will do the trick but i guess it's not.

    thanks again,
    vic

  11. #11
    Senior Member bhkyte's Avatar
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    Go for it, tinker with it !!!

  12. #12
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    bhkyte,

    are you with me on this one ? i am really so curious and about to hit the order button for a triple crankset 48/38/28 and 7-speed shimano cassette 13-26 and a rear/front hub with disc adapters, adding a disc brakes brake also. also you might want to know that i am planning on building a wheelset with 36 holes since i can't find hubs for 28 hole rims. i already have a selle italia seat and shimano brake/shifter on hand. i am really comtemplating but really so eager to do this and see my limitations as well as the citizen tokyos limitations. it may not work but hey at least i had fun doing it. i wanted to follow the others' advice on just getting the sturmey archer but the subborness in me is setting in and wanted to see how far i can go with the upgrades. also i am planning on putting a drop handle bars. too ambitious, ha......i will let you all know what i have decided and will send pics....

    thanks again,
    vic

    PS - see what you have done to a newbie...i just had my tokyo for about a month and had all this outrageous/imposibble plans.......

  13. #13
    transport, not sport.
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    vmaniaui,

    do you know what sounds more interesting here in indonesia?

    I myself, and some more friends, we have no difficulty lacing the 36h internal gear hub to our 28h rim.
    several bike kiosk, can do it. and asking for just rp15.000 (approx. one US dollah fifty cents!!)
    yes you read that right. one and ahalf dollars....

    come to indonesia, and I will show you those roadside artists..

  14. #14
    transport, not sport.
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    one more thing, they are not peeping into sheldon's site,,,,,hahaha

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhm View Post
    My point precisely. This is a good deal on a 60T chain ring; get the cheapest Shimano 105 (or similar) crank you can find on ebay, and maybe you can get over 20 mph! This is why I lobby for the Sturmey Archer 8-speed hub option.
    Unfortunately, I think there is no such thing as replacing a chainring on a Tokyo - got to replace the whole crank. Besides, the more I think about it, the more I think that when I bought the Tokyo, I was trying to get a "good enough" bike for as little money as possible. I got that - and, I'm enjoying it. So why mess up "good enough"? If after, say, a year, I find that I've been using the bike regularly, enjoying it on it's own terms, and am ready to move on to something better, I'll save up and invest money in a better bike.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedi k wardhana View Post
    vmaniaui,

    do you know what sounds more interesting here in indonesia?

    I myself, and some more friends, we have no difficulty lacing the 36h internal gear hub to our 28h rim.
    several bike kiosk, can do it. and asking for just rp15.000 (approx. one US dollah fifty cents!!)
    yes you read that right. one and ahalf dollars....

    come to indonesia, and I will show you those roadside artists..
    tedi - come on rub it in. lucky you. right here i think it will cost me a fortune to have someone do it. if ever i find someone. so best bet is just to make my own wheelset. that way i will learn something on the side. i bet you that the folders there are way cheaper also.....

    thanks,
    vic

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCFlack View Post
    Unfortunately, I think there is no such thing as replacing a chainring on a Tokyo - got to replace the whole crank. Besides, the more I think about it, the more I think that when I bought the Tokyo, I was trying to get a "good enough" bike for as little money as possible. I got that - and, I'm enjoying it. So why mess up "good enough"? If after, say, a year, I find that I've been using the bike regularly, enjoying it on it's own terms, and am ready to move on to something better, I'll save up and invest money in a better bike.
    i am with you on this one. that is the reason i bought my tokyo from craiglist. at first all i wanted is a cheap and decent folder that will take me from point a to b. then maybe just upgrade later. but the curiosity and the challenge somehow started to get into me (have to blame the experts in the forums). i am also thinking that since the tokyo has a nice frame why not upgrade this one. will let you know how it goes (if ever i do it).

    thanks,
    vic

  18. #18
    Senior Member bhkyte's Avatar
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    I should have explianed myself better.

    Go ahead tinker with it even if it does not make sence to upgrade the bike if you feel it may be a fun process. I personally would not go with the idea of a tripple chainring. If you do you will need a 58 tooth, or larger, to really address the under gearing. I thought that you were now considering either a SA8 internal or dual drive, as this is what you need to get decent high gears. If you can get a big chain ring cheap why not ,but if you combine it with a tripple make sure that you can find a compactable front shifter as many do not work with larger chain rings.

    Tinkering can be fun and frustrating, but it helps one learn, especially if no one has done your exact modifcation before. I have messed about with 2 Mezzos converting them to dual drive plus other alterations, and I have had a budget Mission space genie vastly upgraded from standard spec. I am considering a dual drive Diblasli with improved cockpit space as a next project.

    So yeah, go ahead and tinker, you only have time and money to lose!

    But often it is the only way of obtaining the bike you want. Even if this is the intermediate step you will better realise what you like and dont. I like many of the writters on the folding forums have obtained their relative "Valhalla " through this process. Other include EvilV's upgraded Merc, and possible Copy strida with custom luggage bag, Jurs Swift/birdie/mini/ect! , Stomatash 8 speed pantour Brompton, littlepixels Brompton/Merc than weighs nothing, to name a few!

  19. #19
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    I’m thinking of buying the citizen, but was wondering if the handle bar and stem are a standard diameter.

    From what I can see in photos the stem and handle bar are one piece.

    What I want to do is fit the swept back handle bars (like on old Dutch bikes) to enable an upright sitting position.

    If the stem and handle bar are one piece then I would have to get a new stem, so just wanted to make shore that any standard stem would fit. Suppose I would need to fit an extra long one.

  20. #20
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    ruthy,

    yes it is a standard size stem (1 inches in diameter). and you're right that it is a one piece bar.

    thanks,
    vic

  21. #21
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    OK
    I think I might go with the citizen. Getting a new long, regular fitting stem and handle bar shouldn’t cost too much.

    Do you know if there is a UK distributor or will I have to bring it back with me from the states?

  22. #22
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    not so sure about UK distributor. call the citizenbike.com 800 no. and i am pretty sure they can answer you on that one. they are pretty responsive when you call them.

    thanks,
    vic

  23. #23
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    TrekJapan upgraded his (daughter’s) Ignio folder which cost $150. Not the drivetrain though IIRC.

    Do a forum search for Ignio to find those threads.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmaniqui View Post
    ruthy,

    yes it is a standard size stem (1 inches in diameter). and you're right that it is a one piece bar.

    thanks,
    vic
    Thanks vmaniqui. And hope everything goes smoothly with your little venture.

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