ShinyBiker

Hey everyone. I’d like to do something about my Dahon Yeah and its ability to take some of the rough asphalt of downtown DC. I also do a fair number of curb drops on occasion. I’m considering installing Schwalbe Big Apples b/c I’ve heard some good things about them and their cushiness. The Yeah currently has the stock Kenda kwests 20x1.5.

Also, I’d like to keep my fenders since they do a great job of keeping rain, mud and grime off me. I have a question as to whether the Big Apples will clear my fender set up. Here’s an old pix of the back tire so you can tell me whether the Big Apples will not rub the fender:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EqgpUrE0IE...00-h/yeah3.JPG

The other option is to buy a full suspension folding bike like one of Downtube’s full suspension models. I once rode a friends specialty sports store full suspension MTB (not a walmart bike but not a LBS bike) and the ride was unbelievably cushy. Can these Big apples approximate a full suspension folder?

kegoguinness

I have Big Apples stock on my Dahon Speed P8. Can they reproduce full suspension? No. Do they handle the bumps well? Yes. They are fat and heavy, but great around here (I am in DC, too), especially after ice wedging has done a number on our roads. If you don't mind the weight of the tires, they really do ride nicely. You can't turn our sh*t roads into smooth sailing, but at least with the Big Apples, I feel the bumps a little less, and I feel confident hopping off curbs and over potholes that I'm not gonna pinch-flat.

Allen

Sadly Big Apples are no longer made.
They have been replaced with the Schwalbe Marathon.

ShinyBiker

No!

Are the Marathons as good, cushiness wise? Any other equivalents?

Allen

They are not quite as cushy (I think), but they are more puncture resistant.

I have Big Apples (700c) on my bamboo bike and the ride is glass smooth.

I have Marathons (26 inch) on my single speed and the ride does have more buzz but is still a sweet ride. I don't know how much that is from the difference in tires or from the difference between a bamboo frame and a steel frame.

BTW I live down a dirt road.

superpants

i just put big apples on my boardwalk d7 and the stock fenders don't fit any more. =(
but the tires are great.

jur

Yes? From where this news? It is still available at the web site, with no indication of having being discontinued?

Allen

I tried to order some last week for a new build.
LBS said they were no longer available.

havm66z

Just curious if a sprung saddle, or a Thudbuster would be options.

Wouldn’t help vibrations through your arms though. And you’re sort of locked into Dahons if you get the 34mm diameter Thudbuster.

WRT Big Apples, what will the Dahon Speed P8 use?

StuAff

Your LBS is talking BS. They're not discontinued. And Big Apples are not in the same category as Marathons (with the possible exception on the 2" wide Marathon Supremes). https://www.schwalbe.com/gbl/en/bicyc...oint=Tour/City
havm66z, you'll want 20x2.00...that's the standard fit size on a Speed P8.

tcs

Maybe his LBS forgot to tell Schwalbe?

tcs

Allen

Good to know, thanks.

What I'm running on my SS are the two inch Marathons.

Abneycat

Given their popularity, not only are they not discontinued, but Schwalbe has come out with some new variants lately including the Liteskin Big Apple and the Super Moto.

They are considerably nice tires. If you have decent frame clearance and can work out a fender fix, I would give them a shot before considering a new bike if you enjoy your Dahon Yeah.

jur

You can improve fender clearance by moving the fender stays on the back one to a more vertical position on the fender. This will in effect pull the fender away from the wheel. I did this on my Yeah to install BAs.

chagzuki

I like Maxxis Grifter bmx tyres. They're very light and just as cushy as Big Apples, though I don't do very long journeys so I don't know how they'd perform in those circumstances.

chagzuki

But as has been said previously fat tyres won't soak up much other than high frequency vibrations. The ride will be less jangly but potholes and the like will still be felt.

tim24k

BAs are great. Not only do I run them on two folding Dahons (20"X2.00 with fenders) but I have them on a old KHS tandem and my Surly Big Dummy.

Ciao,
o^o

Pocko

"The Big Apple began the Balloonbike trend back in 2001. Comfortable cycling without the need for expensive technology. At the time that was a revolutionary idea. Today it is a growing trend..."

? revolutionary idea ?

makeinu

I disagree. Since I started using Big Apples I fly off of curbs and over obstacles as hard and fast as I can because it's like landing on a pillow. Don't be afraid to lower the pressure. For some reason I always feel fastest and most comfortable just before the pressure gets too low to be efficient. In other words there seems to be a fine line between perfect and sluggish...between 25 and 30 psi for me.

At higher pressures I agree, but the reason Big Apples are praised over other wide tires is that they remain efficient down to very low pressures. I didn't believe it myself, even after riding on them, until I started drastically lowering the pressure.

The main disadvantages I see over a dedicated suspension is that tire performance can vary a lot with temperature/weather and tires are disposable. I think a dedicated suspension would be more consistent and cheaper in the long run if you use skinnier cheapie tires pumped up hard.

kegoguinness

Makeinu, interesting post! So, would you say at 25-30 PSI with the BA's, they don't feel mushy/grippy/slow to you, as in any slower feeling than at a higher PSI? I am tempted to lower the stock 60PSI on mine after reading your post. Thing is, I feel so damned sluggish already. But a lot of that I think has been getting back into biking shape, which I finally am after 4 months.

Abneycat

Big Apples are best run at lower pressures, although they are capable of taking up to 55-70PSI depending on model. Big Apples will only provide good results at high pressure levels if you are putting extreme loads on them, such as using them on a laden cargo bike.

Here is a snippet from Sheldon Brown's website on tires:

And a snippet from the chart of Sheldon's estimations on good tire pressure:

(Full chart and more information available at https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html)

Big Apples are designed to be run near the lower end of their pressure range. I suggest lighter riders inflating them near the very bottom of their rated pressure, around 25psi for the 2.35 models. This is my personal suggestion, but I have received nothing but good feedback from those I have suggested these tires to.

From the Schwalbe Balloonbike website:

That's about 22-36PSI, I believe.

makeinu

I think the specifics depend on your personal weight and the temperature outside, but it's easy to try the whole spectrum of lower pressures by simply neglecting to pump. In my case I found that as the pressure dropped first I didn't feel any notable difference, then I saw an improvement in comfort (which made me faster because it enabled me to pedal through the rough stuff), and then it suddenly starts to get sluggish. When I feel that drop in efficiency at the end I just pump a little to get back to the sweet spot which seems to be around 25 psi for me.

The best way I can describe the sweet spot is that the contact point of the tire finds the path of least resistance in the pavement. Like a cyclist avoiding hills by taking a detour, I think at minimal pressure the wide tire allows the contact point to detour left or right down the smoothest portion of the pavement and if the rubber is soft, like on the Big Apples, it can do this without fighting against its own internal friction. I don't know if this is actually what's going on, but the bottom line for me is that I am going faster with less exertion and when I hit something hard like a pothole the tires just squash as if I were landing on a pillow. It doesn't feel mushy/grippy/slow at all.

chagzuki

I'd thought I was alone in using really low pressures, AFAIR lower than recommended on the Schwalbe website. At times I've run the front extremely soft, I'm not sure the exact pressure but possibly just under 20PSI.

jur

I didn't like mine too soft as I would get squirming around corners. Also, too soft and I begin to bounce when pedalling. That's how I usually discover a flat - I begin bouncing. But I can't say what those pressures are.

jur
who is notoriously unrigorous at times.

ShinyBiker

OP here. Thanks for all the great responses.

There doesn't seem to be unanimity that the BAs are nearly equal to full suspension. I wonder if the weight of the riders can contribute to this? Some think that they are just "road dampeners" other are more enthusiastic. I'm 175lbs.

Based on the responses, I feel confident that I can solve the fender clearance problem, though. Decisions, decisions...