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  1. #51
    Senior Member Mr. Fly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsajustme View Post
    Personally I think a casual observer would be hard pressed to detect a difference in folded size between any of the lump shaped 16" or 20" folders whether it be Brompton or Tikit or Dahon.
    I disagree. Speaking as a bimodal commuter who shares train space with many different types of folded bikes, it is clear to me that the Brompton's folded shape, being boxy and more "regular", has a smaller effective footprint than other folded bikes like Tikits, Dahons and Citizens. A folded Brompton tucks away neatly into a corner while the other folding bikes appear to be a spawl of mechanical parts. This is especially evident when a few Bromptons board the same car - the folded Bromptons all pack up neatly in an efficient row in contrast to the folded Tikits (as an example; not to pick on the Tikit, which I recognize as a marvelous folder) that do not seem to fit as neatly together.

    Back to the original topic, I wouldn't choose to ride my Brompton "for fitness", or even over 10 miles. It's a marvelous multi-modal commuter but I have my "big bikes" for those other sorts of purpose. If I needed a transportable touring/fitness bike and packability isn't too much of a concern, I would consider the Ritchey Break Away.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Fly View Post
    I disagree. Speaking as a bimodal commuter who shares train space with many different types of folded bikes, it is clear to me that the Brompton's folded shape, being boxy and more "regular", has a smaller effective footprint than other folded bikes like Tikits, Dahons and Citizens. A folded Brompton tucks away neatly into a corner while the other folding bikes appear to be a spawl of mechanical parts. This is especially evident when a few Bromptons board the same car - the folded Bromptons all pack up neatly in an efficient row in contrast to the folded Tikits (as an example; not to pick on the Tikit, which I recognize as a marvelous folder) that do not seem to fit as neatly together.

    Back to the original topic, I wouldn't choose to ride my Brompton "for fitness", or even over 10 miles. It's a marvelous multi-modal commuter but I have my "big bikes" for those other sorts of purpose. If I needed a transportable touring/fitness bike and packability isn't too much of a concern, I would consider the Ritchey Break Away.
    As a bimodal commuter and Brompton owner you're not a casual observer. Trust me, your fellow train riders who know nothing about folding bikes aren't railing to their spouses at home about the extra 1-2" the Dahon guy is taking up compared to the Brompton guy. If you ask them then they might suddenly see a difference, but as is I'm willing to bet they view all the folders they see as either amazingly small (for a bike...if they know that's what the contraption is) or much larger than an annoyingly large backpack.

    I'll grant you that since the Brompton is probably easier to handle than many folders, it's users may tend to be more polite in tucking the bike away, but surely for a polite and diligent owner a few inches couldn't possibly be a bother to anyone minding their own business.

    You're right that shape does make a difference when stacking multiple Bromptons, but I don't think it will help you much tucking the bike into corners on trains in the US because in my experience they're typically occupied by seats or standing space for passengers whereas dedicated luggage areas, if present, remain mostly empty. Plus, as an American, I feel much more independent keeping my bike between my legs than creating a temporary bike parking area out of a cohort of folders.
    Last edited by itsajustme; 06-13-09 at 11:40 AM.

  3. #53
    PDR
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    I occasionally get strange looks, especially from other bike owners on the train..... they see me wearing my yellow florescent cycling jacket and possibly my Brooks trouser strap, but no bike.....
    Until and retrieve my covered Brompton as if by magic from between the seat backs.

    I have only ever seen on other train commuter with a tikit... a clever design but still a bulky item. For train travel the Brompton wins hands down.

    As regards the Brompton handle bars, it does say in their literature that they ought to be replaced every so often just to be on the safe side. Changing the bars on a Brompton is simple and inexpensive...... I donít know where the cracks have been appearing on the BF tikit frame but it does sound more worrying.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDR View Post
    I don’t know where the cracks have been appearing on the BF tikit frame but it does sound more worrying.
    They're appearing on one of the legs of the "aardvark". It's the black tripod which appears under the "Bike Friday" red seatmast in this picture. Trivial to swap in a new one, easier than handlebars.

  5. #55
    tcs
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    I ride the light rail with my tikit.

    My experience is showing up at a commuter rail platform with a folding bike is like going to a city park with a puppy.

    The universal comment I get is folks can't believe that a high quality, rideable bike folds up so small.

    tcs
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  6. #56
    Senior Member Lalato's Avatar
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    I tend to agree with tcs. I rode on the Chicago "L" several times during rush hour. It's a tight squeeze no matter what size your folder. There really isn't any place to stow a folder even if you wanted to so I usually stood up with my Tikit. The only times I missed a train was when there was absolutely no room... not even for a Brommie.

    I also agree that most non-folder enthusiasts think folding bikes are rather small no matter the actual folded size. I got the same comments about how small my bike was when I had a Giant Halfway as I do with the Tikit.

    That said... and getting back on topic... I think the OP has a tough decision to make and it really depends on how those test rides go. If I didn't mention it before, I would add the Birdy to the OPs list of bikes to test out.

    --sam

  7. #57
    hipster traffic dodger ChiapasFixed's Avatar
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    I insist: the OP should get both! keep them as long as he likes, then pass one or the other on if he chooses...
    its not like hes investing 25-100K in car!
    Spend 3-4 grand. Really get to know the bikes, then you can still get at least 1K back when you sell one of them, although most likely it will be so useful to have 2 folders they will both pay for themselves soon enough!
    IRO Mark V Pro, home made bamboo track bike, eddy merckx corsa extra, Airnimal Joey, UGADA Tikit

  8. #58
    Banned. folder fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
    Agreed.

    On many trains and buses, there are no bike specific parking areas at all! The OP didn't mention multimode commuting involving a train or bus but this certainly is the area where the Brompton excels.....1. New York City Commuter Bus -- This bus looks wide inside but during rush hour, almost all available space is taken by passengers standing on every available spot. I can just imagine taking a Tikit or Dahon inside this bus at 5:30 PM because a large package like that would take up the entire walking space of the bus. In most cases, the driver will not allow you to board......The Brompton although would be one of the few that would work although. Even covered, it would only take up about 50% of the walking space. There's also a spot behind the rear seat just before the rear door that it will fit nicely. Trying to lug a large folder inside a commuter bus during rush hour is the main reason I have yet to see any Dahon's or Tikits inside the cabin........2. Greyhound Bus -- This bus looks very similar to many coaches in Europe and the U.S. I take an express bus like this to work some days and the ONLY place to put a folder is in the overhead rack. There's no rear door where you can place the bike and you can forget about placing it between your legs, middle of the floor or back of the bus.....Believe it or not, the Brompton will fit in that overhead rack! I tried it once and there is someone else who commutes into the city that does this on a regular basis. Although Greyhound will allow you to store the bike underneath the bus, many commuter coaches will not.....The Brompton gives you options the larger folders don't when it comes to especially tight situations. Other than the Brompton, Strida or CarryMe, I would not want to do multi-mode commuting on the bus with another folder.
    That is the key to the real differences between a compact folding bike and a regular bike or one that folds larger. If the situation for me was like it was in 1975, I would go for a bike that was geared for performance (going up hills & long commuting to college), and no need to combine public transit with the bike. But aging and the ever present theft threat has forced me to combine bike with bus/train/taxi in most trips I do now. So I chose a bike (Brompton) that would not call attention-by being extremely compact-to itself when bagged or covered. A tikit is simply too big when folded & covered up in the crowded situations here in the Los Angeles area. I guess as I get older, I will be less a cyclist and more need to simply make connections with the limited, spread out, yet more crowded transit options around here. In most areas of the US, most bikes-even larger package folding ones-are not welcomed or the first to be booted off in a choice whether or not more people can cram themselves in fewer and fewer spots on mass transit. Size, rather than performance, makes all the difference whether or not you will be left behind.
    Last edited by folder fanatic; 06-16-09 at 05:59 PM.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Lalato's Avatar
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    I don't know, I've never been kicked off a train for having a folding bike in Chicago (Giant Halfway and BF Tikit). I did have one encounter with a bus driver which resulted in me unfolding the bike (Giant Halfway) and putting it on the bike rack so no worries there either.

    I should also note that a bagged bike, no matter the size, is rarely a cause for concern from mass transit employees.

    --sam

  10. #60
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by folder fanatic View Post
    That is the key to the real differences between a compact folding bike and a regular bike or one that folds larger. If the situation for me was like it was in 1975, I would go for a bike that was geared for performance (going up hills & long commuting to college), and no need to combine public transit with the bike. But aging and the ever present theft threat has forced me to combine bike with bus/train/taxi in most trips I do now. So I chose a bike (Brompton) that would not call attention-by being extremely compact-to itself when bagged or covered. A tikit is simply too big when folded & covered up in the crowded situations here in the Los Angeles area. I guess as I get older, I will be less a cyclist and more need to simply make connections with the limited, spread out, yet more crowded transit options around here. In most areas of the US, most bikes-even larger package folding ones-are not welcomed or the first to be booted off in a choice whether or not more people can cram themselves in fewer and fewer spots on mass transit. Size, rather than performance, makes all the difference whether or not you will be left behind.
    FF ... regardless of how much or how far your cycle, those choices will never make you less of a cyclist!

  11. #61
    Banned. folder fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
    FF ... regardless of how much or how far your cycle, those choices will never make you less of a cyclist!
    Thank you Invisiblehand. I will keep what you said in mind when I try to keep up with the younger set in group rides as I get older (I am a bit past 50 now).

  12. #62
    transport, not sport.
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    brompton vs tikit.

    I don't own either two.
    and have never ridden them, either.

    but if I had the money, I'd rather buy a brompton.
    folds smaller than any dahon.
    the tikit doesn't fold small at all.

    ride quality?
    hmm, I am not a connoisseur, am not that sensitive to feel the ride quality...

  13. #63
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    I've had my Tikit for a month now, and it has replaced my fixed-gear as my daily commute from Brooklyn to Manhattan. I know folks with Bromptons, which are beautiful bikes as well. To generalize their respective merits, I'd say that if you are an aggressive rider, go fast, hop curbs, barrel down poorly surfaced roads, then you'll love the Tikit. If you ride like a good citizen, and want your bike to be welcomed like a good citizen inside stores, restaurants and trains, you might like the Brompton. There are places where I get nervous looks from a proprietor, even with the Tikit covered up in French Horn mode. But mostly people just think it looks cool.

    I've also taken the Tikit on a business trip in the Samsonite F'Lite, and it made a huge difference in enjoying my off-time. Anyway it's my first folder and has been a blast to ride. For those on the fence about investing in a quality one, I say it's well worth it.

  14. #64
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    I use to own a Brompton S2L-X (Titanium Model) and it could be folded in ten seconds and I could run more naturally with it since it is very compact and light when folded. Due to financial reason, I sold it. The good news was I was able to sell it for $200 USD more than I paid for it new! The Japanese market is booming with Bromptons this year. The titanium model sold for $1800 last year and now it costs $2500!
    I don't own a tikit, but I don't see the value in it. It doesn't fold as nice and honestly, your better off getting a 20'' Dahon for much less (IMO). The fold is fast, but the design doesn't look like it will last as long as a Brompton with all of the moving parts!

    "keep it simple".

  15. #65
    Senior Member alhedges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Folder4life View Post
    I don't own a tikit, but I don't see the value in it. It doesn't fold as nice and honestly, your better off getting a 20'' Dahon for much less (IMO). The fold is fast, but the design doesn't look like it will last as long as a Brompton with all of the moving parts!

    "keep it simple".
    Have you ever ridden a Tikit? Or a cheaper Dahon? IMO, there is no comparison; the Tikit has a much nicer ride. Higher end Dahons are nicer - but at $1500 for a MuSL, you're not saving any money.

  16. #66
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    I use to own a Dahon Mu C9 (Capreo 9 spd set) that cost me $700. It was a nice ride, but the fold wasn't as compact as a Brompton. It took twice as much trunk space in my car. After awhile, it became a hassle to get it in the car with other stuff and I slowly started to leave it at home on trips because of it. But the ride quality was great so I would recommend it over the Tikit since if your going to get a Tikit, then I am going to assume you don't care so much how small it folds.

  17. #67
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    It's funny that this question just popped up.

    Just yesterday, I saw two men--same size, riding down the same stretch of Market St.
    One was on a Tikit. The other rode a Brompton.

    The guy on the Tikit was riding quite easily at a decent clip.
    The Brompton guy was fighting really hard to try to get to the speed of the guy on the Tikit.

    Bear in mind that it might be the rider and not the bike (although they both looked like normal guys, no spandex, no clipless shoes, entry-level helmets).

    Bear in mind, I don't own either. I've ridden a Tikit (nice ride, better than a Dahon, worse than a Swift).
    I own a Swift and a Carryme.

  18. #68
    PDR
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    I am beginning to wonder why we are even trying to compare the Tikit with the Brompton? Apart from the wheel size they have nothing in common. Different fold, different style and very different components.

    I’m not sure how well known or popular the Tikit is in the USA but over here in the UK they are something of a rarity ( I have only ever seen one at the city railway station). Mention Bike Friday to a member of the public and it would be a case of “Bike who???” whereas the Brompton is almost a household name..... or if you tell someone that you have a Brompton, they will almost certainly know that you are talking about a folding bike. Only time will tell if Tikits ever become a classic bike.

  19. #69
    Senior Member Lalato's Avatar
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    I agree, PDR. Different bikes for different needs. The common denominator, of course, is the fact that they both fold.

    Neither Bike Friday nor Tikit are household names here in the US. However, keep in mind that the Brompton has been around a bit longer than the Tikit... and we have quite a larger population here than in the UK. Brompton isn't a household name here either, for that matter. I would venture that there are great many things that are common in the UK, that the average yank would have no idea about. Me included... and I like to think I know a thing or two about what's going on in the world.

    --sam

  20. #70
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDR View Post
    I am beginning to wonder why we are even trying to compare the Tikit with the Brompton? Apart from the wheel size they have nothing in common. Different fold, different style and very different components.
    The only reason, IMO, is for people without either to make a better purchase decision.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDR View Post
    I am beginning to wonder why we are even trying to compare the Tikit with the Brompton? Apart from the wheel size they have nothing in common. Different fold, different style and very different components.
    The common logic (even among folder fanatics) is that wheel size is the most important quality of a folding or nonfolding bike. I don't think there are very many of us that recognize that this isn't really true. Hence the comparisons.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by alhedges View Post
    Have you ever ridden a Tikit? Or a cheaper Dahon? IMO, there is no comparison; the Tikit has a much nicer ride. Higher end Dahons are nicer - but at $1500 for a MuSL, you're not saving any money.
    I own a Mu SL and a Brompton so I'm qualified as a user to comment on this.

    They are both lovely bikes and the Mu SL is a marginally nicer ride than a well specced Brompton but I would not say the ride is superior at all. Of the two the Brompton is by far the most used on my commute into London on the train.

    I've test ridden a Tikit and I disagree it is a 'much' nicer ride. It is all very marginal with the Tikit having a slightly better ride and the Brompton a slightly better fold. It is down to the user in the end. Bromptons are selling faster than they can produce them even in the current economic climate. I just read another adjacent thread and some have increased in value in Japan rather than depreciated since new. It says a lot for the Brompton. It's a bit like arguing whether the Apple iPhone is better than the Blackberry Bold. They are both great phones and have their distinctive strengths and both are immensely capable smartphones. I'd apply such an analogy to the Tikit and Brompton. Both are exceptionally good folders with their own distinctive strengths.

    It's an age old argument and I notice most of the most critics of the Brompton hail from the US and don't appreciate it's price or functionality as much. Of course there are exceptions. The Brompton is not a perfect bike for every use. I have a Dahon Cadenza 08 for other puroposes and I love it. The Mu SL is being sold because I find the Brompton more indispensable on a day to day basis nonwithstanding the fact the Mu SL is a very very nice bike.

  23. #73
    Eschew Obfuscation SesameCrunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Folder4life View Post
    I don't own a tikit, but I don't see the value in it. It doesn't fold as nice and honestly, your better off getting a 20'' Dahon for much less (IMO). The fold is fast, but the design doesn't look like it will last as long as a Brompton with all of the moving parts!



  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SesameCrunch View Post



    Behave Mr Crunch!

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    If you are around 30 years of age or less, buy a Citizens Miami, invest the difference, don't touch it for any reason, in 18 years you have enough saved for 1st year of college for your newborn. And so it is.

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