oldmill

I'm new to the world of folders, and I'm looking at both of these bikes. Is one better than the other as a bike to bring on weekend trips for 10-20 mile fitness rides? And I've seen some threads saying the Tikit works as a tourer when used with a trailer. Is this realistic? At some point I'd like to get a tourer, but S&S couplers seem cumbersome and I would like to be able to use a fast-folder if it doesn't involve too many compromises in terms or range and ride quality. Thanks

vik 

I've test ridden my friend's Bromptons and I own two Tikits as well as a Dahon D7.

The reason I own Tikits:

- I can get a frame in the size I need [~58cm]
- I fold my bike a lot so the super fast fold and lack of adjustment make the Tikit the easiest to manage in that regard
- I like being able to roll the folded bike easily with one hand when in a shop and the set it down when I need two hands
- I've used my Tikit for rides up to 25kms with no issues [folks have done 80mile + day rides on a Tikit]
- ride quality is excellent so it's one of the bikes I grab most often even if folding is not req'd
- bike is hand made in the US which is rare these days
- support from Bike Friday is excellent
- a Tikit can be had with just about any option you can imagine [disc brakes, fixed gear, drop bars, IGH, etc..]

As for touring I haven't used mine for touring, but I have hauled lots of stuff with it about town. Several other Tikit owners have toured successfully using panniers/seatbags or trailers.

I also own a S&S coupled bike. The S&S couplers are nice, but they are more work than folding a Tikit by a long shot. You do get a full size bike to tour on, but you give up the fast fold and the S&S couplers are quite expensive.

feijai

There are trade-offs here. If you're talking about couplers, you're not in the league of fast-folding bikes, but rather better-riding bikes designed to pack. I would give a close look at other Bike Fridays.

That said, of the commuter (fast-folding) bikes which tour well, the Tikit is near the top of the pack with regard to several qualities that you'll find important for a tourer, and which the Brompton does not have: it has standard parts and can be repaired and upgraded easily; it comes in three sizes and can be custom fit to you; it has decent trail; and it has an unusually customer-responsive company behind it.

Besides the standard parts issue, which I think is the killer for Brompton, consider the sizing. The Brompton's effective top tube is about the same as the Tikit's *smallest* effective top tube. If you are not short, you will find the Brompton to feel cramped. The Tikit rides quite well over the moderate distances (20 miles say) I've taken it.

The Brompton's primary advantage over the Tikit -- indeed probably its sole advantage -- is ultracompact folding size, which it does brilliantly. But it doesn't sound like this is useful to you.

Stormclad

If I had to say it in one sentence: If it's your only bike, get the tikit. If it is predominantly used for travel purposes, get the brompton.

Sorry Vik, gotta disagree with you on some points, but first off,

I agree that:
It's easier to get a Tikit that fits you- The tikit comes in 3 sizes and can mount the full range of handlebars being sold for normal unfolding bikes. Brompton comes in one size and 3 types of handlebars, and you can't even change the height of the bars.

Using the tikit for rides 25km and up without issues. and ride quality being excellent- The brompton can certainly handle distances of 25km and up (i've done 80 on a brompton) but doing it on a tikit is certainly more comfortable, and with the ability to customize it to your size, it's a whole lot more satisfying riding the tikit.

But,

Super fast fold and lack of adjustment make the bike easier to manage, plus being able to roll it single handedly. - The fold is admittedly faster and simple than a brommie, but the bike seems to lose the ability to hold itself together in it's folded package over time: The metal latches need constant attention to get them back into place so they can catch onto parts of the bike when it folds. The brompton requires no such attention. Its fold stayed in place when I first bought it, and it still holds in places after using it for 1 1/2 years. The tikits catch started giving me problems after 5 months. I find that the tikits one wheel roll when folded is far inferior to the EZ-wheel system of the brompton. The brompton can potentially rest on (really small) wheels to be pushed around. I feel the strain on my wrist everytime I wheel my tikit for period of time. The japanese and german BF dealers seem to have tackled the problem by adding castor wheels to the rear rack of the tikit for additional weight support.

This topic has been discussed regularly in this forum, and I've taken the liberty of searching and linking these old threads here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...brompton+tikit

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...brompton+tikit

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...brompton+tikit

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...brompton+tikit

When's all said and done, they really are both remarkable bikes that demonstrate that a good bicycle need not have 24" and up wheels.

PDR

It might help if you told us how you intend to use the bike? Are you going to use it in conjunction with public transport or put the bike into the boot / trunk of your car?

I have owned 3 different folders and test ridden a good selection of other brands. I do like the Bike Fridays, particularly the Pocket Llama.

I currently own an S-Type 2-speed Brompton and I just love it. A really well thought out and engineered design.

There is another bike on my wish list that you could consider and that is a Pashley Moulton TSR.. not a folder, but it splits in half. I took one for a test ride and it was brilliant. https://www.tsr.uk.com/bikes/tsr30.php

vik 

My oldest Tikit is 18 months old and has been folded/unfolded countless times. I have adjusted the latching tab that holds it together twice in that time. The adjustment consists of bending the latching tab slightly. The whole procedure takes about 10 seconds - longer than it took me to write this post. My folded bike holds together without any issues.

feijai

Any chance you have a 2007 model? In 2008 Bike Friday changed the design of the tongue (or as Bike Friday calls it, the "dinosaur") which pops onto the peg and locks the bike together when folded. The new design is far stronger. After a year of abuse mine has been 100% perfect. Though: Vik's got a 2007 and as he noted, it's not a *big* deal to occasionally bend it back.

The only other item I can think of is the little handlebar stem riser catch, which bends. Since September 2008 Bike Friday had the catch made out of metal that's much thicker and I've had zero problems since. They'll mail you a new one, just call them up.

(The only other piece would be the spring steel seatmast catch, but that's relatively robust and trivial to adjust, so I don't think that'd be it.)

I think this claim is largely dependent on the surface. It's true that wheeling the tikit does require some talent: you can either lift it partially, like luggage, or you can balance it on its wheel, which requires a bit of deftness. Thus if you're wheeling the bike around on hard tile or smooth cement, or maybe industrial carpet, the Brompton's very clearly easier. But as soon as you wheel it on a street, rough sidewalk, thick carpet, or dirt or grass -- which I do all the time -- the Brompton becomes poor to unusable. You have to unfold it.

I'd given a bit of thought to how BF might attach a single Brompton-style skateboard wheel to the bottom corner of the front rack on the Tikit, and it'd make the Tikit far more competitive on tile.

SesameCrunch

In my opinion, they're both great bikes, and they'll both work fine for 10-20 mile weekend rides. Brompton folds smaller, Tikit rides better. If your rides are for fitness, I think you'll be happier with the Tikit. It's a sportier bike in terms of riding position, gearing, etc.

If you're serious about touring later on, then Tikit is the only choice, in my opinion. Rides better, less proprietary parts if you need service on the road. More frame sizes for proper fit. Much more gearing options. No contest.

Stormclad

Thanks for the advice. Appreciate it. Nope. The tikit was an '08 model and i've got the steel seatmast catch. True, it might not need much work, but should catch failure occur in the middle of a journey that requires folding, I feel that the Brompton's more squarish shaped fold lends itself to easier makeshift securing than the tikit's 'dinosaur', which looks like it needs a mallet and punch to access it. I haven't tried bending it back myself yet, but i'll give it a go.

As for the rolling, I've seen a friend use inline skate wheels to replace brompton's ez wheels, and that has helped him address the street and rough sidewalk usability. But my experience in having to transport the folded bike: Up and down escalators, lifts, subway platforms, shopping streets, the brompton has given me a more positive experience than the tikit. Of course, it would be silly to buy a bike just because it rolled around well when folded......

karprive

I was in your shoes a few months ago. I got interested in folders after looking at some Dahon models, then I did some research and came across the Tikit and the Brompton...most of the great information I found about the Tikit was from Vik's blog (...thank you Vik).

Based on my internet research, I was really leaning towards the Tikit (not a customized model because it would have been too expensive, but the Model-T without the hyperfold)...I loved how it looked, received great reviews, standard parts, etc. etc. The Brompton reviews seemed mixed...either you loved it because of its quirks or hated it because it was behind the technology curve.

Although I was really set on buying the Tikit, I needed to see one in real life...and I wanted to compare it to the Brompton, just so I could justify that I made the right purchase. I ended up going to the only Brompton dealer in my area...who also used to sell Bike Fridays. Luckily the bike mechanic still had his own medium size Tikit and they were more than happy to let me test out both bikes.

Long story short, I bought the Brompton (M6)...regardless of all the research and logic that suggested the Tikit to be the "better" bike...I just loved how the Brompton rode and felt. Additionally, all the Brompton accessories (luggage block, rear rack, e-z wheels, etc.) are extremely well thought out...and, for me, the fast, compact, and solid fold is better than that of the Tikit.

For daily commuting, I absolutely love my Brompton (especially the internal hub)...it's great on pavement and light gravel and extremely sturdy...the best thing about it is that it makes me want to be outside and ride more, as opposed to staying in and watching tv.

Regardless of spec sheets and facts, it's hard to account for "feel"...to be honest, I was a little disappointed because I really wanted to like the Tikit more than the Brompton...but I am definitely a very happy Brompton owner.

fafnir

I currently own a brompton and a tikit. Both bikes are great, I still haven't decided which one I like better, otherwise I wouldn't own both :-)

alhedges

Both the tikit and the Brompton are good bikes - but based on your description of what you want the bike for, I wonder if you shouldn't consider additional bikes. I think that there are many that would easily satisfy your requirements.

You can easily ride a Dahon 10-20 miles, they fold pretty small and pretty quickly, and are fairly inexpensive.

A BF NWT folds into a package that is not as small, and that is somewhat ungainly to carry around, but it fits easily into a car trunk. (Two will fit in the back of a Honda fit without folding the seat down). It takes about 30 seconds to fold up, which isn't an issue if you are just loading it into a trunk. More importantly, it rides like a regular bike, and I use mine for loaded, multi-day bike camping tours - it could replace the need to buy a separate tourer, as it has for me.

A Swift might also be a good choice - it's less expensive than a BF, rides well, and folds down small enough for trunk transport.

There are lots of other good choices, too.

folder fanatic

The draw for me to the Brompton is 1. Internal hub gearing (I gave up on the deraillleur system some time ago), 1. one frame size (I seem to be between 2 sizes for the multi frame selections), and 3. proven technology (it is based on the old classic Mini Cooper of the 1960s with it's rubber cone suspension system and handling characteristics) plus as you pointed out earlier the accessories really do add to the bike. The tikit does have it's appeal too, but not enough for me and my style of riding.

Don't forget the Montagues either. They are a full size "mountain" bike designed for military use originally very suited for long distance travel on less than well paved or ideal roads. For their size, they can fold down into a smallish package similar to the other 20" and less folding bikes. I myself am currently looking into the CX model for that purpose as I don't think my 2 Dahons or especially the Brompton Companion (this one I like to "baby" even though it is a tough little bike that never gave me any type of trouble for over 3 years since I bought it new) is not suited or designed for this type of hard riding.

feijai

Okay "proven technology" is an argument I can buy, but: the tikit not only has internal hub options, it has more and better internal hub options than the Brompton. Plus it has fixed and derailleur options too. And how exactly could one frame size possibly be construed as an advantage?

ChiapasFixed

wow! popular thread!
My 2 cents:
My UGADA Steampunk Tikit is equipped with double front rack, disk brakes, Alfine internal gear hub and dynamo hub plus lights.
I have used it for touring Indonesia and Malaysia, logging 100-160kms daily for consecutive weeks. No issues with carrying heavy loads, or comfort over time, or speed compared to my travel companion's New World Tourist (in fact, we concluded there were no real advantages to the NWT, as even the Tikit's relative "flex" was a non issue).
The quick fold and easy rolling of the folded package on the Tikit proved a serious advantage over the NWT when entering malls, restauraunts, catching ferries and the ocasional taxi or bus. I believe a Bromton would offer some similar advantage but I doubt it could carry the loads or offer the comfort of the Tikit.
I emerged from this trip convinced that the Tikit is a worthy touring bike, even without a trailer, and would recommend it for this purpose over a bromton or even another Bike Friday model if you plan to do multi-mode folding bike touring.

OldiesONfoldies

I own both tikit n Brompton. They are both good bikes as evidenced by many happy and satisfied owners.

But the tikit takes the cake for being able to tour better due to pannier carrying abilities. Chiapasfixed - do you have a blog n pics of your tour with the tikit? I'm planning a Trans Borneo trip in Oct with my tikit.

longlong14

i had a tikit for most of last year, rode about 300kms each month for 6 months. i would say if you are going to use the bike strictly for fitness rides and would like the convenience of a folding bike, between the brompton and tikit, the latter is clearly a better choice.
the tikit has better brakes, is easier to ride out of saddle for hills, and personally i prefer derailers which you could not get on the bromptons.(except the 2-speed versions) what i really miss about the tikit is that you don't have to make adjustments to anything once you unfold the bike, with the brompton, you have to make sure the saddle is in the right position and the seat post is the correct height, every single time you unfold the bike. tikit will also give you more upgrade options, such as a wider range of tires, disc brakes, etc. fitting wide tires to the brompton is problematic as the rear frame will have clearance issues.
however, if you're planning to do more with the bike, like commuting, taking it on and off subway/buses, errands/grocery runs, brompton will make your life much easier than the tikit. my problem with the tikit was that it did not roll very well, at least not for me. the folded tikit was not balanced and rolling it with one arm was very tiring, i had to take a break every 50 meters or switch arms. IMO it rolled only a bit better than the dahons. the tikit grocery shopping video on youtube is like one of those solve a rubik's cube in 30 seconds videos which i cannot dream to achieve without some serious training. the fold was messy and big, combined with the fact that it did not roll well folded, it discouraged me from bringing it onto the subways and into shops. with the brompton, i can roll the bike folded with two hands, one hand, two fingers, one finger, etc, and i do grocery runs with it as a shopping cart and i even shop in malls for 2 hours at a time while rolling the folded bike.
a lot of people prefer the ride of a tikit, but personally i did not find it much superior to the brompton except for the stability riding out of saddle and the brakes. the tikit felt a bit too flexy, or maybe it was that the stem had play because of the fold mechanism. (it was a 2008 tikit, with a single table in the headtube when folded, which is supposed to be better than the older ones with 2 cables) i actually find the brompton to be more stable because of this. i think ride quality is very subjective, and has a lot to do with size. if you're a larger and stronger person, tikit would definitely be a better choice, as you would not find most of my complaints to be a problem.

Stormclad

I can vouch for the internal hub option, I'm using an Alfine on my tikit myself.

folder fanatic

I returned to the Bike Friday website for some answers. It seems that others have either considered or actually placed an internal hub gear drivetrain on their own bikes:

https://store.bikefriday.com/pipermail/yak/2007-October/010142.html

https://www.bikefriday.com/node/2902

https://www.bikefriday.com/node/1705

SRAM Dual Drive 3 speed INTERNAL HUB: This is an innovation that works particularly well with the Bike Friday's 20" wheel diameter. The system looks like this: single front chainring (no front derailleur), and in the rear wheel, an enclosed, planetary gear system that performs the same function as the front chainrings, in combination with a standard 7,8, or 9 cog cassette to give a total of 21-27 gears.

The advantages: Wider gear range than a triple chainring, robust, bullet proof casing which makes it great for touring. If you climb really steep hills or like really low gears, this is it! Unlike earlier editions of this hub, you can shift it while pedaling.

The disadvantages: generally a pound heavier than a typical chainring setup, and though it is a reliable component, it is not as easy to repair on the road in the unlikely even that it fails. However, it is designed to be a fully enclosed, relatively maintenance-free system.

ROHLOFF SPEEDHUB: A completely internal gearing system: single front chainring, no front or rear derailleur, no cassette, 14-speeds evenly spaced (no overlapping) gears, yet with as wide a range as a triple chainring. Operated by a single grip-type shifter. Was developed for mountain bike downhill competition.

Advantages: Bulletproof, wide range of gears.

Disadvantages: Heavy (typically almost a pound heavier than the SRAM setup), expensive, more drag and a whirring noise which is music or menace to your ears depending on whether you're a fan or not. Needs to be run in: after the first 500-1000 miles, the oil should be changed out - a simple procedure.

The factor that made me consider the Brompton over the tikit for me is simple. The Brompton is made for internal hub gears with it's rear horizontal or near horizontal dropouts. I am not so sure with the tikit as I never saw one up close. But my guess it is better suited for the derailleur system as it probably has a vertical dropouts. That means more problems with slippage-unless you get all technical and more maintenance for me to do, which I don't care do so. As for size, I know what frame size is for a Brompton. I have bought some accessories that made my bike fit better. I straddle between 2 frame sizes as my height dictates at 5'2 and 1/2 inches. It is a real hassle to "guess" what frame will fit me best especially since I might not have a chance to try out the different frames. And being a woman, the top tubes generally don't match my inseam measurements very well. My Brompton was slightly modified to fit at the first tune-up as the brake levers were rotated upward a little bit and a new wider saddle was chosen to increase comfort. A frame would not be as easy to swap out.

The choices of what internal hub to use is already solved with the Brompton. I like the Sturmey-Archer AW one. I have been using it with other bikes for many years. The price is included with the bike. On the tikit, I am not so sure as everything is up for grabs as far as price goes. I don't use any fancy system like the ROHLOFF SPEEDHUB. It is overkill as far as my needs or even wants go.

The tikit has it's place with many people. The Brompton for others. In the period and the situations I use bikes in at present, the Brompton that I have works very well. The tikit is fine for people who are more "into" bikes than I am. Perhaps if I was 25 again, fancy free, and have much time and money to burn a tikit would work well. But I am way beyond that period in my life. And I need a bike that can face today's and the near future's situations that I have a use for bikes now. Bromptons are it. They fit wherever I go, a tikit might not.

ChiapasFixed

the seasons Tikit has dropouts specifically designed to work with Shimano internal geared hubs, with or without disc brakes. The joy of it is that the dropouts are removable, and can be replaced with Rohloff-specific, or even with derailleur hangers or specially designed fork ends for single speed or fixed gear use. All for a minumum cost on the same frame! Check it out:
https://bikefridaywalter.wordpress.co...ikit-dropouts/
The Tikit is being continously engineered!

pibach

Thanks for your report on the Tikit, very interesting. But regarding the Dahons I want to add that it can be rolled very well. I just leave the seatpost extracted when folding and rolling the bike. Then you can roll it on both the wheels, holded together by the magnet. This is very stable. It can be rolled with two fingers (1 finger is difficult though). To place it somewhere, I just put one pedal against the front wheel, then I get a stable tripod stand. Unfolding from this fold does take ~3 sec.

vik 

As noted the Seasons Tikit has adjustable dropouts to take up the chain slack. In fact you can get a Seasons Tikit with adjustable dropouts for a typical IGH [Nexus/Alfine], you can then later swap in the Rohloff specific adjustable dropouts and if you really want you can swap in a standard derailleur vertical dropout. This makes the Seasons Tikit particularly versatile as you can modify the bike radically to suit your current needs as they change.

tcs

I've swapped my tikit Model T over to a SRAM iMotion3 IGH, geared 53/16. The conversion was pretty straightforward. The iM3 is a fast, positive shifting modern design 3-speed hub and alone among the three-speed hubs currently on the market the iM3 has the advantage of an inboard shift cable.

I use this tikit for commuting, but last weekend I rode a 35 mile organzied ride on this bike. I have nothing but satisfaction to report.

tcs

feijai

I think my interpretation of this is: you think the Brompton's single size is preferable because it happens to fit you. But you claim this without even knowing if any of the Tikit's frame sizes will fit you as well. (BTW, the Brompton's frame is about the same as the size-small Tikit). Why in the world would you "swap out" a frame? None of this makes much sense.

As to customization, the Tikit is *far* more customizable than the Brompton. I think the Tikit's sizing and customizability, both from BF and after the fact, is a huge advantage over the Brompton, which doesn't fit me at all (and I'm pretty average for a male).

To each his own I suppose. I do the exact same thing (down to the same model shopping bag pannier) every time I go to Whole Foods. Though in truth when I start loading it with five bottles of water, it becomes unweildly. I do think that shopping is where a Brompton's wheel design would be really helpful. Until I get out on the brick outside.

BTW: I can't solve the cube in 30 seconds but I'm under a few minutes.

folder fanatic

The tikit did not even exist when I was in the market last for a folder (late 2005). If it did, I would have flown up to Eugene, OR and test rode one for myself if I was trying to choose between the Brompton and the tikit before I bought either one. But I am in the market now for a Montague CX which will be purchased within a year or so as circumstances permit. And as a woman who has longer legs, shorter torso, shorter hands & fingers, I have to be a bit more careful when I actually order a speciality or not well known bike (generally they are nonreturnable). The sizes & specs are a guide, but sometimes I find that bikes that fit some people don't fit others even though they are the same height. The CX's size chart indicates that I fall between 2 sizes. So unless I see the bike in person (like in a bike shop) I would not buy something that may not fit me since I am buying the bike for me, not everyone else.

Trying to unload it on Craigslist or E-bay is not an option for me as I don't like to feel like I am being taken advantaged of or swallowing a loss of a great deal of money because of 'guessing games". I rather pass on purchasing the bike if this is even a remote possibility.

As for customization, I like to do it myself bit by bit as my Brompton shows on my Flickr sites. And the accessories featured are either ones that are non Brompton (like the saddles and the Kool Stop brake pads) or ones I made myself (bags & slipcovers).