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  1. #1
    PDR
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    Mouton F frame da ja vue (e-bay)

    I have been watching the price of Moulton F-frames steadily increase since buying mine in June.
    There is one particular e-bay seller that regularly has a number of bikes for sale who seems to be asking rather high prices...

    Anyway take a look at this bike (item # 250470121196): http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
    Sold for 122, a week later the new owner (the man who sells at high prices) has it up for sale, but this time a BIN price of 485! (item # 190326146148 ) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MOULTON-CYCLE-...d=p3911.c0.m14

    A check of the feedback profiles proves it is the same bike. The only difference is that the front rack has been taken off (to sell separately no doubt), the rear mud guard has been fixed and a centre prop stand has been fitted along with new decals. Other than that it is in the same terrible condition that he bought it in.

    I would like to know how he can justify buying a bike for 122 and then putting an asking price of 485 on it a week later. It is not as if he has spent any money on restoring it.

    Granted, originality does count towards the value of a bike, but NOT when it is in this sort of terrible condition.

    It is greedy people like this that will artificially raise the price of these bikes to an unrealistic level. People will look at those photos and then think any rusty old wreck is worth a fortune.

  2. #2
    Senior Member echotraveler's Avatar
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    i would think this wont sell because its too expensive...but the first auction was pickup only, this new one says worldwide shipping...so that would allow for a lot more people to buy including the asia crowd, whos supposedly crazy about moultons....

    markup-re-sellers are sad people.

    i just read the description, and we can clearly see how his trying to sell this markup...the "rare stand" alone is woth 100 pounds! ...it makes me laugh...rare everywere, holy grail.....lol
    Last edited by echotraveler; 08-04-09 at 03:36 PM.

  3. #3
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    Moulton prices

    moultoneers web site has many f rames for sale although it seems to me that the numbers are decreasing and prices rising, more people just asking for offers rather than sate a price. I acquired my standard, about 6 months ago for 20 . I dirty and covered in rust but was complete and working.

    Bill

  4. #4
    Senior Member echotraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billburke View Post
    moultoneers web site has many f rames for sale although it seems to me that the numbers are decreasing and prices rising, more people just asking for offers rather than sate a price. I acquired my standard, about 6 months ago for 20 . I dirty and covered in rust but was complete and working.

    Bill
    my friend! OXALIC acid will clean the rust out!! i worked pretty good on my moulton.

  5. #5
    Raleigh20 PugFixie, Merc LittlePixel's Avatar
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    if it had actually been properly restored (re-chrome, sympathetic respray [a cardinal sin for many moulton officionados - maybe why it wasn't done?] , technical overhaul including hub stripdowns then I'd say this markup might be justifiable. Sadly it's not but buyer beware! I look at a lot of moulton auctions and the prices do vary madly. If you want to do the work then a rusty old shed-find with no tyres is probably the best way to get one - but for many - paying is easier than doing the work.

    I also feel the time spent doing a good listing with decent photography and good plain english, as well being flexible on shipping options can easily make something instantly more attractive to the buyer. Is it a sin to 'flip' moultons for profit? Probably not since they are so attractive - especially to anglophile Japanese, but I do think this seller is taking the piddle a little. Better to set it to no reserve and let bidding democracy decide it's monetary value.

  6. #6
    Senior Member echotraveler's Avatar
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    http://cgi.ebay.com/1965-Moulton-Bic...item3a53d04f16

    heres one example...i bought a complet huffy moulton with original seat, stand, racks, 4 speed, dunlop rims, and everything, not much rust and the paint is decent for 390.00 shipped, this ebay auction started at 200.00 and in theory i was going in for 275.00 max bid....before i even had a chance of bidding it went up to 510.00!!

  7. #7
    Schwinnasaur Schwinnsta's Avatar
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    It is missing kickstand and the pedals and grips look wrong. Am I knit picking? Also what is up with the tape on the hand tube. Just for picking it up? Nice that it has its pump. Is this one a Huffy? He makes no statement that the hub shifts and coaster brake works. But does make a no refund statement.

    Seems overpriced but can you argue with the market?

  8. #8
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    Hi, I am the seller. I actually do have the kickstand and the original grips, both in excellent shape. The kickstand is a pretty bad design, and unavoidably scratches the paint (under the grip tape, which makes a good handle), although not terribly. I really had no idea how nit-picky the market would be. I simply spend way more time looking at this bike in my room than I do riding it.
    I'm not blowing any smoke when I say it rides perfect, coaster brake included, and it is a single speed. Yes it is a Huffy distributed model. No refund usually goes without saying on 45 year old wear items, but I felt lawyery. People's definitions of excellent condition may vary, but I am somewhat familiar with these bikes and this one is above and beyond any others I have seen in person.

    Any questions in the next 2 days, fire at will.
    Hope this is fair nettiquette
    Last edited by nononotorious; 10-19-09 at 07:25 PM. Reason: photo

  9. #9
    Schwinnasaur Schwinnsta's Avatar
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    Sounds fair to me. Agree the design of the kickstand sucks. From what you say your description is good. I did not email questions about the auction because I am not a bidder. I think you should include that you have the grips and kickstand. For some they add value. I think some Stowaways had 2 speed hubs but I don't know for sure or whether Huffy did. I could be wrong on this.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by nononotorious View Post
    ... The kickstand is a pretty bad design, and unavoidably scratches the paint (under the grip tape, which makes a good handle), although not terribly. ...
    The kickstand originally had a rubber tip that was molded to clip to the back rack. I had a 1964 4-Speed for 40 years. I don't recall having any issues with the kickstand scratching the paint.

  11. #11
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    Ahh, interesting. That makes sense. As pictured, it was a pain to ride with, and didn't like to 'stand' on anything but a perfect surface. So I took it off, revealing the paint that it had scratched, but with it on, you see nothing.
    Anyway, I hope the tone of my sale expresses that 45 y/o excellent ≠ perfect.
    I also wish I had found this forum earlier, and I could have kept it in the community, but alas I have gotten several Japanese emails.

  12. #12
    Senior Member echotraveler's Avatar
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    i agree , if all the original parts are there, and the paint is so well kept, its fetching a very good price right now....this one is an interesting auction!

  13. #13
    PDR
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    The seller I mentioned in the first post is now a member of the Moulton Bicycle Club (it was the only way he could buy the frame decals) but most people shun him because of his actions.

    He went to the Bradford on Avon weekend (factory meet-up) and bought a load of books and put them on the bay at greatly inflated prices (over 200 IIRC). Club members where so annoyed at Steve Ds greed that we asked the books author if he would list them on e-bay himself so that people could buy direct from him at the real retail price.

    It looks as though the greedy git has had to drop his prices accordingly

  14. #14
    Senior Member echotraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDR View Post
    The seller I mentioned in the first post is now a member of the Moulton Bicycle Club (it was the only way he could buy the frame decals) but most people shun him because of his actions.

    He went to the Bradford on Avon weekend (factory meet-up) and bought a load of books and put them on the bay at greatly inflated prices (over 200 IIRC). Club members where so annoyed at Steve Ds greed that we asked the books author if he would list them on e-bay himself so that people could buy direct from him at the real retail price.

    It looks as though the greedy git has had to drop his prices accordingly
    thats what you call LOVEJOY? lol i read a lot of message titles sayint lovejoy in the yahoo group...is this why?

  15. #15
    Senior Member echotraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nononotorious View Post
    Hi, I am the seller.

    WTF OMG! this moulton from 1965 went up like crazy!!! to whooping 975.00 dollars!!!

  16. #16
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    Except the winning bidder was a aksjhbasbajbs-ing scammer, without feedback, registered in Thailand, and wanted it shipped to a gas station in Florida.

    Hopefully the second place bidder accepts the second chance offer, or it gets relisted. Oh well.

  17. #17
    Senior Member echotraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nononotorious View Post
    Except the winning bidder was a aksjhbasbajbs-ing scammer, without feedback, registered in Thailand, and wanted it shipped to a gas station in Florida.

    Hopefully the second place bidder accepts the second chance offer, or it gets relisted. Oh well.
    WTF! man! i i totally thougth japan for sho'!

  18. #18
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    Yeah, it sucks. I've offered it to the two following bidders who are both in Japan and made solid offers. Oh well, again!

  19. #19
    Senior Member echotraveler's Avatar
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    if everything fails i still want it for 400 shipped i kidd i kidd

  20. #20
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    Haha, well who knows you may have a shot if I relist it, along with the 45 other people "watching" it.

  21. #21
    Senior Member echotraveler's Avatar
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    hey saw that moulton go to 700! what happened, good buyer nononotorious?

    EDIT: WTF Man, canceled all bids again?! whats happening!?
    Last edited by echotraveler; 10-28-09 at 09:46 PM.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Sangetsu's Avatar
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    I have no idea why people think these bikes are so valuable here in Japan. I bought an old Moulton bike at a used household items store a few weeks back for 2100 yen (about $25). Maybe I should put it on Ebay...

  23. #23
    Senior Member echotraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sangetsu View Post
    I have no idea why people think these bikes are so valuable here in Japan. I bought an old Moulton bike at a used household items store a few weeks back for 2100 yen (about $25). Maybe I should put it on Ebay...
    im not from Japan so im not sure whats the deal with english items there. But i do know this bike ride quite nice, looks strange, are confortable, handle great, and are super practical. Also they are quite old (vintage) and a Moulton in good condition is very very desireable ...i know i desire them ! lol you can probably find this for cheap when they are broken, or people that have them know nothing of them. But on the bay and net all that look for moulton know at least basics of what they are.

    now price....it all depends on the moment, a bike is worth what you paid for it, if you pay a lot enjoy it, if you pay nothing enjoy or re-sell....

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by echotraveler View Post
    hey saw that moulton go to 700! what happened, good buyer nononotorious?

    EDIT: WTF Man, canceled all bids again?! whats happening!?
    A local buyer offered $800 cash. I figured it was worth saving the trouble of int'l shipping. Done and done

  25. #25
    Senior Member echotraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nononotorious View Post
    A local buyer offered $800 cash. I figured it was worth saving the trouble of int'l shipping. Done and done
    800!!! probably will see him come by our forum or the moulton yahoo group....800..wow..simply wow


    for a second i thought you had psycho bidder.

    do you ride bikes often?
    Last edited by echotraveler; 10-30-09 at 08:50 AM.

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