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  1. #1
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    Schwalbe Durano vs Kojak vs Marathon Racer?

    I'm on the verge of upgrading my recumbent. Why would the folder forum care? Because it's the ICE B1, one of the few folding 'bents out there. Well, you still might not care

    It comes as stock with Schwalbe Marathon Racers. I'm sure they're a great and durable tire for the intended purpose - touring.

    But I'll mostly do long, fast, day rides and light touring so I'm considering ordering it with faster tires. The Duranos (ex. Stelvios) radically improved the performance of my Birdy. But they are very narrow and high pressure for a bike with no suspension.... So maybe the Kojak is a better choice? I've seen other ads saying it's one of the fastest tires in the 406 size, and I like the bit about "Excellent tire for rough pavement" too.

    Anyone care to venture an opinon? Thanks!
    ICE B1, Brompton H6, Schwinn Mirada drop-bar vintage mtb

  2. #2
    PDR
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    I really like the kojaks, I have been using them on 3 different bikes. They ride and grip well and I haven’t had a single puncture in over a year of use.

    Oh, and I for one am interested in your recumbent and most other small wheeled bikes, after all, apart from the 2 Bromptons in the family, the rest of the bikes are 16”-!7” wheeled Moultons (5 F-frames & 1 Bridgestone Moulton)which are not folders

  3. #3
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    I like the Kojaks vrs the Marathon Racers on my Birdy. I've not tried Duranos or Stelvios.

  4. #4
    New usename ThorUSA brakemeister's Avatar
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    Kojaks
    take the wire beadas as they are cheaper and as long as you dont have to fold them ....... a few extra grams dont make any difference

  5. #5
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    I would say this:
    On rigid bikes with little wheels, fat tires are not just more comfortable, they're faster.

    I ride a Xootr Swift, which is not only rigid but exceptionally stiff. With the stock 1.5" Kenda tires pumped up to 65 or so PSI, the ride was harsh, but I also felt extremely uncomfortable riding at speed for other reasons. On rough pavement, the tire would "bounce," and the grip was very unpredictable. I found myself riding on the local, poorly-maintained roads much slower than I did on my full-sized bike, not because the bike was less efficient, but because I just didn't feel safe riding full-speed. Suspension helps keep your tires on the road. With little wheels, if you have no suspension, they bounce all over the place.

    I just bought a pair of Big Apples for my Swift, and the difference was night and day. At 50psi, they still felt pretty responsive, and the grip was phenomenally better. It didn't hurt that the ride was smoother, but the real joy was how much more predictable the handling was, especially at speed.

    Most people agree that on rough pavement, fat tires are actually faster as well, because they prevent forward momentum from being converted into upward motion when you hit a bump. Schwalbe goes so far as to claim that their Big Apples are faster even on good pavement because fat tires don't deform as much and because the larger outside diameter is smoother-rolling. I'd take that last claim with a grain of salt, but there it is.

    Anyhow, the upshot is this: skinny, high-pressure tires did wonders for your Birdy, but I suspect that that has a lot to do with the fact that your Birdy is suspended. The "small wheels, skinny/hard tires, and suspension" formula is a good one; it's been in use on automobiles forever and Alex Moulton first applied it to bikes about half a century ago.

    When you remove suspension from the mix, though, I think you'll find skinny, high-pressure tires disappointing from both a comfort and a performance perspective.

  6. #6
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    Have a look at the Greenspeed Scorchers also... I have them on my Jetstream XP ... they are slicks and at 20x1.5 ( 40-406) are fairly comfortable when run below their 100psi max (recommended pressure 40-100psi) and roll very well ..
    Last edited by BruceMetras; 08-27-09 at 09:31 AM.

  7. #7
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    In past threads, SC and I agreed that the Racers are more like fast trekking tires. To me that means that they are generally pretty quick and durable -- i.e., good for general purpose use -- but not a true road tire.

    I sold our Stelvios and picked up a set of Primo Comets. Few people talk about them anymore. But they are cheap, come with a kevlar anti-puncture model, availble in a variety of widths, support a wide range of tire pressures (100 psi maximum), and I think they roll really well.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpacalypse View Post
    I would say this:
    On rigid bikes with little wheels, fat tires are not just more comfortable, they're faster.

    Schwalbe goes so far as to claim that their Big Apples are faster even on good pavement because fat tires don't deform as much and because the larger outside diameter is smoother-rolling. I'd take that last claim with a grain of salt, but there it is.
    Here it is from the Schwalbe website:

    "Why do racing professionals use narrow tires?"



    "Wide tires only roll better at the same inflation pressure, but narrow tires can be inflated to higher pressures than wide tires. However, they then obviously give a less comfortable ride.

    In addition to this, narrow tires have an advantage over wide ones at higher speeds, as they provide less air resistance.

    Above all, a bicycle with narrow tires is much easier to accelerate because the rotating mass of the wheels is lower and the bicycle is much more agile.

    At constant speeds of around 20 km/h, the ride is better with wider tires. In practice, the energy saving is even greater than in theory as the elasticity of the tires absorbs road shocks, which would otherwise be transferred to the rider and so saves energy."

  9. #9
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yangmusa View Post
    I'm on the verge of upgrading my recumbent. Why would the folder forum care? Because it's the ICE B1, one of the few folding 'bents out there. Well, you still might not care
    Nice bike, BTW. I noticed that it comes with a compact crank and a modified Capreo (9-32) cassette. How fast/convenient is the fold?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
    In past threads, SC and I agreed that the Racers are more like fast trekking tires. To me that means that they are generally pretty quick and durable -- i.e., good for general purpose use -- but not a true road tire.

    I sold our Stelvios and picked up a set of Primo Comets. Few people talk about them anymore. But they are cheap, come with a kevlar anti-puncture model, availble in a variety of widths, support a wide range of tire pressures (100 psi maximum), and I think they roll really well.
    +1 .. I don't know why Primo Comets don't get more press ...I've got a narrow set (26-451) on a Reach Road and the 37-451s on a Reach City, and have received excellent service from them.. and are available in 1.35 and 1.5 widths for the 406 size if I remember correctly.. excellent tire for the money.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
    How fast/convenient is the fold?
    Not very. Within a couple of minutes you can pop off the seat (and rack if fitted) - quick release. Then the rear folds under and the handlebars fold down. That should be sufficient for going in the back of a car. For air travel the frame breaks in two pieces and the boom comes out. Neal at ICE said he managed to fit it in a suitcase, but didn't have pictures.

    So, it's no multi-modal commuter. But I only need it to fit in the back of the occasional rental car, or for flights, so it should work for me.
    ICE B1, Brompton H6, Schwinn Mirada drop-bar vintage mtb

  12. #12
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    Thanks for all the input!

    I'm also concerned about skinny tires on a non-suspended bike. For all the reasons mentioned - but also because on a recumbent one cannot "unweight" the wheels for potholes since one is lying down. If there's a pothole that can't be avoided, you're going to crash through it... On the other hand, the Kojak isn't that skinny (1.35) and it does say it's good for bad pavement.. And - the B1 does have rear elastomer suspension.

    I had kevlar Primo Comets (1.35) on my Xootr and felt they rode like concrete donuts. Very harsh. I suppose it might be worth trying the non-kevlar version, maybe in 1.5? They're certainly reasonably priced!

    I have Big Apples on my Tidal Wave and they are extremely comfortable. I've tried them between 30 - 50 psi, and generally have them at about 45 psi. They don't feel very speedy, though I don't think they've actually affected speed that much. I should put the stock Kenda Kwests back on and do some timed runs..
    ICE B1, Brompton H6, Schwinn Mirada drop-bar vintage mtb

  13. #13
    New usename ThorUSA brakemeister's Avatar
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    try the kojaks
    they are not harsch like others. i would cll them compliant which makes the a nice tire indeed

  14. #14
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceMetras View Post
    +1 .. I don't know why Primo Comets don't get more press ...I've got a narrow set (26-451) on a Reach Road and the 37-451s on a Reach City, and have received excellent service from them.. and are available in 1.35 and 1.5 widths for the 406 size if I remember correctly.. excellent tire for the money.
    http://www.danscomp.com/444089.php?related=456010

    They also come in wider widths. At the moment, I have 20x1.75" on my Bike Friday. The link above offers them in 1.9 and 2.1".

  15. #15
    Senior Member bent4me's Avatar
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    I prefer Tioga Comp Pool Tires. I have had these on my ICE Trike and prefer them over my original GS Scorchers. I have over 4k on them and still have dimple left. My Scorchers were cooked by then. Even though they are not kevlar belted I find them very durable and have had only 1 flat. They are rated at only 65psi and I run them at 60. I find them quite fast with a cushiony ride and very economical at $20. In fact I just ordered a set this week from Calhoun Cycle. They are no longer in favor and are had to come by, but I still like them. For more of a review Google tioga comp pool tire and read my review thejerseypedaler

  16. #16
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bent4me View Post
    I prefer Tioga Comp Pool Tires. I have had these on my ICE Trike and prefer them over my original GS Scorchers. I have over 4k on them and still have dimple left. My Scorchers were cooked by then. Even though they are not kevlar belted I find them very durable and have had only 1 flat. They are rated at only 65psi and I run them at 60. I find them quite fast with a cushiony ride and very economical at $20. In fact I just ordered a set this week from Calhoun Cycle. They are no longer in favor and are had to come by, but I still like them. For more of a review Google tioga comp pool tire and read my review thejerseypedaler
    Actually, I want to try the tires. Their max pressure is pretty low -- 65 psi? -- but that also means that the tire could be more flexible. I think you can still get them from J Gaerlan.

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