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Thread: Citizen Tokyo

  1. #1
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    Citizen Tokyo

    Hi all, Just got my two 16" citizen folders.

    Not bad at all, ride fine a little on the heavy side but pretty well put together for the money.

    The one downside for me is that they are geared too low. The aim of these things is to put them into our airplane for trips into town say 5 miles each way..They are geared too low for that in my opinion.

    So the gear is a Shimano Tourney with a 14 tooth smallest sproket and I know Shims come as small as 11 tooth and I have seen them for about $20.

    Does anyone know which gearset will fit back there..or are they all the same fitting?

    Thanks

    Frank

  2. #2
    Senior Member edwong3's Avatar
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    Your bike uses a "freewheel" not a "cassette". Unfortunately Shimano no longer manufactures any freewheel with the 11 tooth cog. They do make however a 6 speed freewheel with the 13 tooth. That would raise your top gear from 46 gear inches to almost 50. The other option is to replace the chain ring to one that has 6-8 more teeth, and you could still get the 13-28 freewheel too but that would not be cheap.

    Edward Wong III
    Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder


    Quote Originally Posted by frankhinde View Post
    Hi all, Just got my two 16" citizen folders.

    Not bad at all, ride fine a little on the heavy side but pretty well put together for the money.

    The one downside for me is that they are geared too low. The aim of these things is to put them into our airplane for trips into town say 5 miles each way..They are geared too low for that in my opinion.

    So the gear is a Shimano Tourney with a 14 tooth smallest sproket and I know Shims come as small as 11 tooth and I have seen them for about $20.

    Does anyone know which gearset will fit back there..or are they all the same fitting?

    Thanks

    Frank
    Last edited by edwong3; 09-23-09 at 01:44 PM.

  3. #3
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    Glad you are enjoying your new bikes. Sorry you had to find out the hard way about the gears. We fellow Tokyo owners have posted about the low gearing on the Tokyo in other threads in this forum. Mine is currently at the Local Bike Shop (LBS) getting a new gearset (that edwong3 helped me find) installed and adjusted. It is a 7 cog no-name set with an 11 tooth smallest cog, so they're putting on a new gearshift to go with it. It is supposed to be done on Saturday and soon I'll report on how it works.

    By the way, I highly recommend that you get a LBS to check out your new bikes, especially to make sure that the wheels are true and spokes tensioned correctly. I could have saved myself some trouble and money if I'd done that.

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    Cool

    The 11 tooth will give a 27% improvement so its worthwhile

    Did you have to have your wheel rebuilt onto a different hub to get the 11 tooth gear>

    Where does one find such a freewheel (or is this being built onto a hub that will accept a cassette?)

    Thanks I'll check the spoke tension/trueness of the wheels

    Frank

  5. #5
    Senior Member edwong3's Avatar
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    Yes I almost forgot to mention that there is a 7 speed freewheel cluster available with an 11 tooth cog. I wasn't sure if you wanted to go so far as to convert up to 7 speed as you would have to change the shifter as well. JCFlack should have the link I gave to the website that sells this freewheel.

    I believe that Citizen Bike for their next production run should consider moving up to 7 speed freewheels as there are a little more choices available, and would bring their models closer to their intended competition.

    Edward Wong III
    Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder



    Quote Originally Posted by frankhinde View Post
    The 11 tooth will give a 27% improvement so its worthwhile

    Did you have to have your wheel rebuilt onto a different hub to get the 11 tooth gear>

    Where does one find such a freewheel (or is this being built onto a hub that will accept a cassette?)

    Thanks I'll check the spoke tension/trueness of the wheels

    Frank

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    Change the shifter?

    not sure why this is..is it because of the index's in the twist knob?..Not a big deal to me..I'd just use one of the friction shifters off my old bikes.

    Cool...I'll drop JC a note

    Frank

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    Senior Member edwong3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankhinde View Post
    not sure why this is..is it because of the index's in the twist knob?..Not a big deal to me..I'd just use one of the friction shifters off my old bikes.

    Cool...I'll drop JC a note

    Frank
    Yea a friction shifter would work. However a new 7 speed indexed shifter isn't that expensive...probably less than $20.

    Good luck! Let us know how this plays out for you.

    Edward Wong III
    Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder

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    i would suggest no other than an internal gear hub.
    as on my THREE 16" folders.
    -bazuki (originally a 14" singlespeed, now with sram t3 coaster brake)
    -polygon metro (originally singlespeed, now with nexus3 coaster)
    -curve d3 (orginally with sram t3)

    high gear inches acquired, without much hassle..
    trust me.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by tedi k wardhana View Post
    i would suggest no other than an internal gear hub.
    as on my THREE 16" folders.
    -bazuki (originally a 14" singlespeed, now with sram t3 coaster brake)
    -polygon metro (originally singlespeed, now with nexus3 coaster)
    -curve d3 (orginally with sram t3)

    high gear inches acquired, without much hassle..
    trust me.....
    tedi - what IGH did you put on your Curve ? was it an easy fix ? i have a curve also and wanted to add more gearings.

    thanks,
    vic

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwong3 View Post
    Yea a friction shifter would work. However a new 7 speed indexed shifter isn't that expensive...probably less than $20.

    Good luck! Let us know how this plays out for you.

    Edward Wong III
    Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder
    Yes, the one Spokes Etc. is installing was $19.99 USD. The freewheel 7-speed was this one from ItsElectric - http://us.itselectric.ca/Freewheel_7...l-7-spds-n.htm.

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    Senior Member JosephLMonti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwong3 View Post
    I believe that Citizen Bike for their next production run should consider moving up to 7 speed freewheels as there are a little more choices available, and would bring their models closer to their intended competition.

    Edward Wong III
    Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder
    Yes, I think Citizen Bike should consider upgrading the Tokyo model into the $300 range. Perhaps they could offer a better drivetrain (just as you suggest) and switch to a lighter weight aluminum frame. Ever since Downtube discontinued the Mini, there is nothing in the $200 - $600 range for the 16" wheel folder market.

  12. #12
    Senior Member edwong3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JosephLMonti View Post
    Yes, I think Citizen Bike should consider upgrading the Tokyo model into the $300 range. Perhaps they could offer a better drivetrain (just as you suggest) and switch to a lighter weight aluminum frame. Ever since Downtube discontinued the Mini, there is nothing in the $200 - $600 range for the 16" wheel folder market.
    I agree that an aluminum framed 8 speed IGH 16" Tokyo by Citizen Bike would probably fill the void that the Mini left very nicely. They could probably do a 3 speed IGH for less than $300 if they can get the numbers right, and compete with the Kent Nexus, and the Dahon D3 Curve.

    It's all speculation though.

    Edward Wong III
    Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder

  13. #13
    Senior Member edwong3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCFlack View Post
    Yes, the one Spokes Etc. is installing was $19.99 USD. The freewheel 7-speed was this one from ItsElectric - http://us.itselectric.ca/Freewheel_7...l-7-spds-n.htm.
    JCFlack, thanks for posting that link. I think it's amazing that someone still offers a 7 speed freewheel with an 11 tooth cog in this day, and age! I hope they never discontinue those. Did you notice that they also have 11-32 8, and 9 speed freewheels?

    Let us know how your Tokyo's conversion to a 7 speed drivetrain works out. Maybe you can take some pictures, and post them here, and send them via email to Citizen Bike with an explanation why you had to do that conversion. Maybe it will nudge them to consider re-spec'ing the Tokyo, and the other models in the future.

    Edward Wong III
    Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder
    Last edited by edwong3; 09-24-09 at 10:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edwong3 View Post
    I agree that an aluminum framed 8 speed IGH 16" Tokyo by Citizen Bike would probably fill the void that the Mini left very nicely. They could probably do a 3 speed IGH for less than $300 if they can get the numbers right, and compete with the Kent Nexus, and the Dahon D3 Curve.

    It's all speculation though.

    Edward Wong III
    Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder
    I'd be happy with the steel frame, even if it's a little heavy; I still don't really trust aluminum frames. You can save weight on other components.

    The problem with upgrading the Tokyo to IGH is that the dropouts look vertical; an IGH more or less requires horizontal dropouts.

    Are the dropouts really vertical? I can't tell; all I know is this picture:

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    Senior Member JosephLMonti's Avatar
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    Speaking of the dropouts, does anyone know what the spacing is on the rear dropouts and front fork?

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    Senior Member JosephLMonti's Avatar
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    I would be ok with a steel frame if it were chromoly...hi-tensile steel is just too heavy.

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    Senior Member edwong3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JosephLMonti View Post
    I would be ok with a steel frame if it were chromoly...hi-tensile steel is just too heavy.
    With recent reports of aluminum frame cracks I don't blame anyone for being wary of that material. Chromoly is good but don't expect spectacular weight savings over Hi Ten in a small frame like the Tokyo's. You'd have to resort to using tubing that varies in thickness in order to achieve significant weight savings but that would drive the costs up quite a bit.

    Chromo does have the characteristic of being more resilient and resistant to bending than Hi Ten. And you get to save some weight. Nothing wrong with that at all.

    Edward Wong III
    Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder

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    Quote Originally Posted by tedi k wardhana View Post
    i would suggest no other than an internal gear hub.
    as on my THREE 16" folders.
    -bazuki (originally a 14" singlespeed, now with sram t3 coaster brake)
    -polygon metro (originally singlespeed, now with nexus3 coaster)
    -curve d3 (orginally with sram t3)

    high gear inches acquired, without much hassle..
    trust me.....

    But how much did the gear inches improve on going with an internal gear hub?..This means the rear wheel will have to be built on a new axle?..Its a lot more work than going to a an 11tooth (assuming the elctric bike units work ok), but if it gives a vastly better improvemnet it could be worth it..but we need data..



    Frank

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    Senior Member JosephLMonti's Avatar
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    Why not just switch out the front chainring? This seems like a much simpler and less expensive solution...

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    Wow

    Those Scrams look really expensive..At least from what I could find online.

    Frank

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    Quote Originally Posted by JosephLMonti View Post
    Why not just switch out the front chainring? This seems like a much simpler and less expensive solution...
    The biggest I could find was a 60 tooth chainwheel and it would need to be bolted to the existing chain ring..Ok not the end of the world, but it its a bit of a botch.

    Plus the 11 tooth rear sprocket gives a 27% upgear over stock, vs the 60T chainring only gives 25%....The front chainring would be slightly more expensive than the 11 tooth freewheel that JC is having fitted...Plus of course then you have buy a chain.

    Frank

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    Senior Member JosephLMonti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankhinde View Post
    The biggest I could find was a 60 tooth chainwheel and it would need to be bolted to the existing chain ring..Ok not the end of the world, but it its a bit of a botch.

    Plus the 11 tooth rear sprocket gives a 27% upgear over stock, vs the 60T chainring only gives 25%....The front chainring would be slightly more expensive than the 11 tooth freewheel that JC is having fitted...Plus of course then you have buy a chain.

    Frank
    Sounds like replacing the freewheel (vs chainring) is the way to go. But for this to even be possible, the dropout spacing must be the standard 135mm?

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    Dropout spacing?

    Ok excuse my ignorance but what is a dropout spacing of 135mm??

    Frank

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    Senior Member JosephLMonti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankhinde View Post
    Ok excuse my ignorance but what is a dropout spacing of 135mm??

    Frank
    A picture is worth a thousand words:

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sp-ss.html


  25. #25
    Senior Member Niked's Avatar
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    Frank, congrats on your new bikes. My mango Tokyo has been to Jersey shore boardwalks, East Tennessee mountains and next month, Bermuda.

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