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  1. #26
    New usename ThorUSA brakemeister's Avatar
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    "due to age or lack of proprietary parts not being available"

    lets hear it. What parts you are concerned about ?

    I need to make room for more stuff in my warehouse and I want to make sure I got all and everything which breaks or could break with a lot of different modells and maybe a million Dahons on the road this should be a piece of cake.

    Surely at times I might not be able to get the year correct or NOS part but lets see if I can find an alternative to keep the bike rollin. For those who have 20 year old stainless geta ways ..those are collector bikes and parts are available through the same sources as old Merckx Gitane or Pinnarello Schwinn krates and so forth. I dont have the time to start a restoration business. But the lack of parts for these real old folders makes the original ones as expensive as they are ( also see Raleigh 20 )

    But again this propieroty talk is way way over rated. Just because Dahon calls a hub Dahon special edition means nothing as you can order the same hub from Harris Cyclery.
    Grips .. yes Dahon has a maker of grips who makes them pretty grips with the Dahon logo on it.... they also make the same grips without the logo.
    Bells integrated ..yeah what a cute little design its like the Radio/Light/Inflator/Battery charger/ emergency beacon what ever. I like to have a good brake lever and a good bell ( I sell Bells made in Germany) but if that silly integrated bell dissapears, than the world is not coming to an end, one can still use the bike. get a 3 dlr bell if you need one and be on your way ....

    There are real Dahon parts like frame clasps kits ( I have 3 here which I bought last year ....steel and alloy versions..... they seem to be pretty bulletproof as I still have 2 of each in stock after one year ...hmmmm ? The people who break them must be finding them easily at their local dealer ???
    Handlestems , due to the recall they got put into bikes but slowly they also become available again as spare parts .....

    folder fanatic ...if you are so afraid of your surroundings may I suggest that no job in th world is that important to stay where you are. Its a semi free world ( dont get me started on that one) and nobody forces you to live in the surroundings you dont like. I live in the middle of a cornfield and at the local Walmart half the cars are wide open ( at least 10 % have the key in the ignition , which is NOT the way to go, as it makes thieves out of othwerwise ordinary people ) Maybe you need a change of location as that would clearly raise your standard of living, living in fear cannot be good for anybody.

    Thor
    colleceting bits and pieces and hopes to get rich on propriorty parts

  2. #27
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brakemeister View Post
    .. I can find an alternative to keep the bike rollin.
    Which reminds me this picture

    http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_feb2005/CarTrolley.jpg

    ;-)

    Seriously, Thor, instead of defending Dahon at all cost, I would have a serious talk with them about spare part availability. That double game of praising every little feature to sell me a bike and minimizing it when I ask for support does not add to Dahon's credibility.

    Kam

  3. #28
    New usename ThorUSA brakemeister's Avatar
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    you are gonne send me the old shifter ?

  4. #29
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brakemeister View Post
    kamtsa
    I offered you a source for a 15 dlr shifter which is technically comparable. Not the custom shifter you liked to get but technically fully functional replacement. What is the beef anyhow. yours broke ? or do you want to upgrade something. If yours is broke send it to me and I will see what I can find.
    Thanks Thor.

    The shifter is a replacement (the one we have a shaky, after a crash, due to pedal strike) and the bell/lever is upgrade. I will send you the shifter in the winter when we will be grounded anyway.

    I appreciate your help.

    Kam

  5. #30
    Senior Member Foldable Two's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brakemeister View Post

    folder fanatic ...if you are so afraid of your surroundings may I suggest that no job in th world is that important to stay where you are. Its a semi free world ( dont get me started on that one) and nobody forces you to live in the surroundings you dont like. I live in the middle of a cornfield and at the local Walmart half the cars are wide open ( at least 10 % have the key in the ignition , which is NOT the way to go, as it makes thieves out of othwerwise ordinary people ) Maybe you need a change of location as that would clearly raise your standard of living, living in fear cannot be good for anybody.

    Thor
    Thor,

    I think you may be glossing over the realities of life for many folks today, and likely burning-off a potential customer in Folder Fanatic.

    I spent my first 35 years in the L.A. area, within 20 miles of Downtown, and am currently living just 70 miles North of there. I also moved away from here at age 50 (close to FF's age, I think) so I have some experience with LA as well as moving away from here. Just getting up and going sounds easy, and possibly romantic to some, but it isn't.

    1) It ain't easy...Small towns may be nice, but they can be a challenge job and service wise. In addition, the older folks get, the more stuff they usually have to move. There is also your family situation and possibly real estate considerations. Bottom line: You need money, and if not, friends or family to assist you in the city where you want to move.

    2) It ain't cheap. You need to have $$$ or a good job waiting. (I'm not sure FF works.) Even if you rent, security deposits can be a killer.

    3) Without a car it is almost impossible, unless you have only a pack on your back (forget her three folders). You need a vehicle to look for a place to live, look for a job and the move itself.

    Yes,we did it, but I had a job waiting, the finances to carry me, and a wife to help.

    Lou

  6. #31
    transport, not sport.
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    every time I read about comparison with a bike friday, I am sensing a "emotional and sentimental and patriotic" aura of a bike "entirely made in america with PRIDE"

    is it just my feeling?
    I haven't really riden one, but if a compact fold is what we are after (to get on the bus/or train), the bike friday (tikit) is definitely not "compact" compared to a dahon, let alone a brompton.

    yes, the absence of a hinge on the BF (also on a birdy), logically would give a "better" ride...

    yes, we all understand.
    a smaller company can provide you with a better service, rather than the huge factory that massproduces millions of foldingbikes like dahon.

    considering my budget, I wouldn't want to spend above 1000 dollars, just because it is handmade.....

  7. #32
    Senior Member jpmac55's Avatar
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    On the other hand....

    I am new to the folding bike crowd but hooked just the same. I went with Dahon, purchased two bikes from Thor and am happy so far. Even bought a used one from Craigslist for winter riding. I didn't try any of the other companies though. Slim pickin's in my home town.

    Learning about some of the Dahon customer service issues now gives me pause but still begs the question, how did they become the worlds biggest folding bike company? I'm a business kind of guy, understand marketing and know there are examples of how some inferior products go global. Not many though, certainly not for long. Yes, there are always war stories when you are on top and we all have rooted for the underdog or smaller company. Think Apple and the PC commercials.

    How many cottage bike companies would switch places with Dahon? Are there really millions of unhappy Dahon owners? How many people will buy a Dahon today? Why did customer service leading companies like LL Bean and REI opt to sell Dahon, even co-label a model or two?

    I'm not making light of the gut wrenching issues mentioned here. Just making a point that the world market has faired well with Dahon and I have to believe most of their customers are happy riders. Back to Apple and their emergence on dominating several technology segments, I still have an Apple Newton somewhere in my basement. Try getting parts for that one.

  8. #33
    Senior Member Foldable Two's Avatar
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    Learning about some of the Dahon customer service issues now gives me pause but still begs the question, how did they become the worlds biggest folding bike company? I'm a business kind of guy, understand marketing and know there are examples of how some inferior products go global. Not many though, certainly not for long. Yes, there are always war stories when you are on top and we all have rooted for the underdog or smaller company. Think Apple and the PC commercials.

    Dahon makes very good folders. Our first folders were Dahons, but the more we rode, the more we wanted really good bikes. The fact that I'm 6'3" also played a part. FYI: I still ride a Dahon single-speed when in the PNW. IT's a great bike, but I don't have the factory 120 miles down the road if it breaks. As riders get more sophisticated, their tastes normally do to.

    How many cottage bike companies would switch places with Dahon?

    Likely not too many. It's a BIG, BIG leap and it took Dahon 20+ years.

    Are there really millions of unhappy Dahon owners?

    I doubt it. There are likely a lot of Dahon bikes hidden away, though. Ran into an older guy here last week that pulled his 1989 Dahon out of storage because his regular bike was broken. He had used the Dahon on his boat in the past, but didn't know what brand it was!!! I had to point out the Dahon label on his rear fender.

    How many people will buy a Dahon today?

    Lots of people. They are now selling 300K to 400K bikes/year.

    Why did customer service leading companies like LL Bean and REI opt to sell Dahon, even co-label a model or two?

    Because Dahon can mfg enough bikes to fill their distribution channel initially, and for ongoing business, plus Dahon has a good record as a manufacturer.

    I'm not making light of the gut wrenching issues mentioned here. Just making a point that the world market has faired well with Dahon and I have to believe most of their customers are happy riders.

    I would agree, Most Dahon customers are likely very happy with their bikes. However, I would bet that those owners are not as demanding as riders of higher-end bikes such as Bike Fridays, nor do they, as a whole, ride their bikes as much or as far.

    Back to Apple and their emergence on dominating several technology segments, I still have an Apple Newton somewhere in my basement. Try getting parts for that one.

    Apple has neat technology, but you pay a higher price to acquire it. My 1984 Mac cost $3,695, and you still pay a higher price for an Apple product. Same as with bikes.

    Lou
    Last edited by Foldable Two; 10-12-09 at 09:44 PM.

  9. #34
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    If you want non-existent spare parts support from dahon and someone that is not contactable buy dahon. We were one of the biggest retailers for dahon/bike friday in the nation and the customer service and after sales support (re: parts/warranty issues) is completely absent for Dahon. Bike friday is the polar opposite.
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  10. #35
    in cog neato itsmoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpmac55 View Post
    I still have an Apple Newton somewhere in my basement. Try getting parts for that one.

    You don't buy replacement parts for a PDA, you throw it away and buy another. Same as servicing a Dahon.

    I have the heart of a young boy. I got it on eBay.

  11. #36
    New usename ThorUSA brakemeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    If you want non-existent spare parts support from dahon and someone that is not contactable buy dahon. We were one of the biggest retailers for dahon/bike friday in the nation and the customer service and after sales support (re: parts/warranty issues) is completely absent for Dahon. Bike friday is the polar opposite.

    sounds like sour grapes or sumpin .... would be interesting to find out.... but I have more important things to do .... like helping my customers ..lol
    I have absolutely NO problem to call them whenever I like* they do have a 800 number for dealers as well. I get emails answered in usually a day. I can send faxes every day. I sell bikes every day, I pay for bikes every day( well .....once a week is enough ) yeah I pay in time as well ( part of a good relationship)

    I , like everyone else have the occasional hickup when parts like carriers or fenders or magnetix are not immedeately available. I wait a couple weeks and than my order gets filled and usually arrives a couple days later. Yes the spare part accesory parts could be slicker, no doubt, the replacement parts/warranty parts I dont already have I can usually get within days ... also here is room for betterment.
    The key is that I am not siting on my hands I order stuff so I have it in stock and not wait until my customer needs it ....

    if somebody makes s statement that they cannot be reached that makes me mad as it is totally untrue

    for heavens sake I can email the Owner and get responses back within a day ..

    thor

  12. #37
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brakemeister View Post
    ...for heavens sake I can email the Owner and get responses back within a day .. thor
    Have you talked with him about improving the spare parts availability? What did he say? Have you seen any improvement since then?

    Thanks,

    Kam

  13. #38
    Senior Member Northwestrider's Avatar
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    I have owned a MU P 24 for a year and half. I enjoy the bike. My LBS has provided good service when needed. I have had the occasion to call Dahon USA, and was not impressed as others have indicated. For the price the P24 is hard to beat. It rides well, folds well enough for me. I've had it on rides of up to 50 miles or so and ended the day smiling.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsmoot View Post
    You don't buy replacement parts for a PDA, you throw it away and buy another. Same as servicing a Dahon.

    Perhaps not the best of examples. The original Newton MessagePad cost $800. I owned every single Newton MessagePad (because I developed software for them and needed to test it on them). When Apple stopped making the Newton, Newton users like me sort of clung to our devices because there was nothing good enough to replace them. As their hardware broke down, we'd piece them together: I wound up taking pieces of three Newton MessagePad 2100s to construct a FrankenNewton which still works fine.

  15. #40
    Senior Member mrbrown's Avatar
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    I am genuinely curious here.

    Someone explain to me why bicycles manufactured in China or Taiwan are spoken of with derision sometimes on this forum, when compared to bicycles made in the USA.

    I have ridden bicycles made in the US, in the UK, in Taiwan and in China, and they all have their share of gems and lemons.

    In fact, some of the best bicycles are made in Taiwan.

    So why this unhappiness?
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  16. #41
    PDR
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    The comparison with PCís and things like walkmans, i-pods and playstations is a good one. Iím sure the typical customer for Taiwanese bikes wants modern design at a good price and does not care if the item is going to be obsolete as soon as the next yearís model comes along. Iím also sure they have little interest in the company or could tell you who designed the bike etc.

    But when you buy a Bike Friday, Brompton or Moulton you are buying more than just a bike, you are buying into the company and often a very enthusiastic owners club. You are also buying a hand built bike that you can expect to last a long time.... and to get great spares backup.

    Owners of these bikes usually know something about the company and the people who made their bike and there are often factory tours and club rides. Many Moulton owners spend a weekend each year at Alex Moultonís mansion for a series of events and a chance to meet the great man himself. They ride bikes ranging from the latest twin pylons to F-frames dating back to the early 60ís. Brompton owners are also a very enthusiastic bunch and a good number enter the Brompton World Challenge or similar events. Owners become attached to these bikes (BF, Brompton & Moutons) in a way that you simply will not see from people who buy foreign made mass produced bikes.

    There are 3 Bromptons and 6 Moultons in our family..... I might have to buy a Bike Friday next oh and an Airnimal Rhino (another British made bike).

  17. #42
    Senior Member bhkyte's Avatar
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    I own a Dahon curve,but their are other bikes I would prefer to own to replace its role in my stable of bikes. ie BF Tickit, Downtube Mini, or Diblasi R22. However I bought it because of price, and the 305 wheel size. I would like to own a BF model ,but it would just be greed ,because they are nice bikes. The only Dahon I would aspire to are the speed TT,as a fast road bike or a Hyperglide for offroad. Is there another competer for the Dahon hyperglide, Birdie at a premium? Speed TT is cheap for the spec, but could be bulit up on to a friday? Therefore all the Dahon range I find aspirational could be provided for from other manufactures at a cost. It come down to cost in the end,as to why Dahon is well placed in the market IMO.
    Dual drive Mezzo (GOLD), Dual Drive Mezzo with bullbars (black), White Brompton thingy with Dahon Androes stem and bull bars. Birdie (old sytle) 7 speed. Downtube NS8. Birdie red.

  18. #43
    PDR
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbrown View Post
    I am genuinely curious here.

    Someone explain to me why bicycles manufactured in China or Taiwan are spoken of with derision sometimes on this forum, when compared to bicycles made in the USA.

    I have ridden bicycles made in the US, in the UK, in Taiwan and in China, and they all have their share of gems and lemons.

    In fact, some of the best bicycles are made in Taiwan.

    So why this unhappiness?
    I guess as Westerners we only see Japan as producing high quality desirable products. Rightly or wrongly we treat all the other Far Eastern countries with suspicion. We tend to associate them with making cheap, poor quality items or reasonable items at reduced cost due to the availability of cheap labour. Any company based in those countries is seen to be more concerned with profit and overheads than producing high quality desirable products. Also the fact that so much counterfeit stuff comes from that part of the world does not help change our attitude.

    If you buy a product from one of these companies (especially a car) you will always be seen to have gone for the budget, less desirable option and to be more interested in cost than the passion of owning what you really wanted.

  19. #44
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    It's true that westerners treat certain far-east countries with suspicion due to a perception of low-quality products. But I suspect that most derision is nowadays focused on China because of its jet-black human rights record. Indeed I'm willing to bet that a lot of anti-Taiwan sentiment stems from a misperception that it's part of China, rather than what it is, which is a weird and vibrant democracy with a very happy-go-lucky and reasonably well-off populace.

    That being said, Dahon shouldn't get so much crap here. There's wide variance among work situations in China, and my understanding is that Dahon's Shenzhen factory has among the better conditions in the country (being near Hong Kong doesn't hurt). Though David Hon living at the factory imparts a sort of disturbing Willie Wonka vibe.

  20. #45
    PDR
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    You’ve done it now! I can’t get the image of umpa lumpas building bikes out of my head now
    Last edited by PDR; 10-13-09 at 06:54 AM.

  21. #46
    It's got electrolytes! chucky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brakemeister View Post
    sounds like sour grapes or sumpin .... would be interesting to find out.... but I have more important things to do .... like helping my customers ..lol
    I have absolutely NO problem to call them whenever I like* they do have a 800 number for dealers as well. I get emails answered in usually a day. I can send faxes every day. I sell bikes every day, I pay for bikes every day( well .....once a week is enough ) yeah I pay in time as well ( part of a good relationship)

    I , like everyone else have the occasional hickup when parts like carriers or fenders or magnetix are not immedeately available. I wait a couple weeks and than my order gets filled and usually arrives a couple days later. Yes the spare part accesory parts could be slicker, no doubt, the replacement parts/warranty parts I dont already have I can usually get within days ... also here is room for betterment.
    The key is that I am not siting on my hands I order stuff so I have it in stock and not wait until my customer needs it ....

    if somebody makes s statement that they cannot be reached that makes me mad as it is totally untrue

    for heavens sake I can email the Owner and get responses back within a day ..

    thor
    I think many dealers aren't really committed to selling folders and prefer Bike Friday because they can just collect the check while Bike Friday does all the work for them. With Dahon they have to do all the same work they would with a Trek or any other mass produced bike, which is often a losing proposition if only a small minority of their customers buy folders.

    I'm going to make this real simple for the OP. The difference between Dahon and Bike Friday is this: Dahon is mass produced, Bike Friday is not. Any advantages/disadvantages follow from that. I'm personally a fan of mass produced products, but you may not be. Capish?

  22. #47
    Senior Member bhkyte's Avatar
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    Sorry ,I have just realised I have been calling the Dahon Jetstream the Hyperglide for some strange reason!
    Dual drive Mezzo (GOLD), Dual Drive Mezzo with bullbars (black), White Brompton thingy with Dahon Androes stem and bull bars. Birdie (old sytle) 7 speed. Downtube NS8. Birdie red.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDR View Post


    There are 3 Bromptons and 6 Moultons in our family..... I might have to buy a Bike Friday next oh and an Airnimal Rhino (another British made bike).

    Airnimal bikes are made in Taiwan by Pacific Cycles ..

  24. #49
    PDR
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceMetras View Post
    Airnimal bikes are made in Taiwan by Pacific Cycles ..
    Really?
    That is not good news... might have to scrap that idea and buy another Mouton or a BF Pocket Llama for riding trails.

  25. #50
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    I have owned a couple of used BF NWT and several Dahons. The BF were made very nice and I liked the idea of made in the USA. I didnt care for the fold of the BF and they didnt ride as nice as I thought they should. I have owned sevearl Dahons Piccolo, Curve SL, D7,Boardwalk.... They had an easy fold but I didnt care for the gearing or the 16" wheels were too small for me. I just picked up a used 2007 MuSl recently and it rode like it was made for me. The MuSl is a keeper for the type of riding I do. If a used Brompton or Tikit comes along I would like to pick up one of those also and see what they ride like and see if they would become a keeper also. Get what fits you best and what you can afford. These bikes dont break down that often so I wouldnt worry about parts until you needed them. When you do need parts then get some help here from the forum on who can help you out.
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