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  1. #1
    If it dont fold frankly.. thatsut's Avatar
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    Airnimal rhino am I mad? :)

    Hello everyone,

    Just thought i post a question to some of the only people that could understand folders the most

    ok i have a brompton (The motorised one ). Recently ive been doing more and more "off road" which i really enjoy. However on the brompton the tyres are just not ideal (wheel spin up hill, front wheel sliding round couners), and the ride is rather bumpy.

    I have been considering the airnimal rhino as is the only "off road" small wheel, dual suspension monoque "folder" (other than the poorly service "go bike")

    I am a one bike person thus would sell one the brompton minus the motor stuff and hubs which are brand new.

    Tech reasons why i like.

    can use same hubs as my brompton ( rear triangle will need to be narrowed) and use 20" 28h rims

    Can get decent front suspension 26" forks much cheaper than the 20" equal (but will probably go for a rigid fork with ballon tyres to start

    20" tyres more redily avaiable (as this point is a touring bike this is very practical)

    and yes i do fold the bike occassionally but find i dont really need it all that often
    (the rhino fully dismantled should dismantal to fit within a 20" wheel and quick fold to something managable please see links last link in particular)

    http://www.kinetics.org.uk/assets/im...INO_FOLDED.jpg

    http://www.foldsoc.co.uk/rhino.html

    http://www.foldingbikes.co.uk/airnimal_rhino_frame.htm

    more standard components

    p.s. normally i would have just bought it myself and tried it, but sinse posting about my other project i realise how helpful some can be. so basically should i get the frameset to build up myself i can get a earlier frame set (without horizontal dropouts ) for 350?

    Kind regards,

    Nathan

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lalato's Avatar
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    You may be dead set on the Rhino, but you may also want to look at the Dahon offerings for off-road. The Jetstream series should be price competitive with the Rhino... and it offers a foldable bike for those few times you need that.

    If it's simply a matter of building up a Rhino with parts you already have... maybe get the frame, build it up and see if you like it, if you don't you can always go back to your Brommie or try something else. I wouldn't sell the Brommie until you're sure the Rhino (or something else) is the answer.

    Good luck with your decision.
    --sam

  3. #3
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    Downtube has a full suspension model.
    Speed Uno
    Dawes Kingpin 2speed

  4. #4
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    Speed Uno
    Dawes Kingpin 2speed

  5. #5
    If it dont fold frankly.. thatsut's Avatar
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    Hello thanks for the response,

    IM not keen on the jetstream or downtube because thay have a hinge in the middle and may break. the jetstream is also not under warrenty for off road reasons, the designers/dahon probably know why :/. thus im not intrested in them. has anyone ever brocken one of these?

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    The Montague has a unique fold.
    Speed Uno
    Dawes Kingpin 2speed

  7. #7
    If it dont fold frankly.. thatsut's Avatar
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    Dyno, yeap i know i like it but 26" have from my experience been to big.

    I would be intrested to know is a 26" hardtail (bike with no rear suspension) smooths out the bumps better than a 20" wheel with urt (unified rear triangle) suspension.

    thanks

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    I am currently building an Airnimal Rhino. If you use a standard MTB fork the hub will need to be 100mm. The rear is 135mm spacing. Not sure how you would narrow the frame - it looks as though extensive cosmetic damage would occur unless you used some for or hub spacers???? A new hub would be far easier and cheaper in my opinion. If you are in the USA you will have more chance of obtaining 20" wheels with 28 holes. I found Velocity about the only manufacturer that made what I needed (20" 32h). Alex also make rims in this size. Most 20" wheels are for BMX and have 36h. I ended up having to order my rims from the States to the UK at great expense. A word of warning finding spokes of the right length is a nightmare - 2 months and still waiting for them to arrive. All other parts for the bike are standard MTB. You can use a standard MTB suspension fork - I think the frame geometry is set up for 80mm travel ideally. However, 20" wheels mean the bulge on most suspension forks occurs where the tire is about its maximum width so really fat tires might not fit. Finally, disc brakes can be fitted to the rear (in addition to the front) but may interfere with the "first fold" and may require the rear wheel to be removed.

    Also, the frame is not a monocoque - its a big aluminium tube and the horizontal dropouts are only useful if you want single speed or to fit a Rohloff/hub gear

    Hope this helps

  9. #9
    If it dont fold frankly.. thatsut's Avatar
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    Windy thanks for posting your first post to help me,

    Ideally i would narrow the rear triangle as per sheldons brown method, so i can use the brompton bwr hubs. There is nothing cheaper than not buying something

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

    For the fork i would use a hub with OLD (over locknut dimension) of very close to 100mm likely 10-5mm over. i think i can get away with this but without the metal in my hands i dont know for 100% what do yo think? I am more worried about chain clearance on the front forks (see my motorised brrompton for clarification in the folding section). I really do love the fact of being able to use a decent 26" fork only problem is the URT in my opinion. do you have a problem with this when rding? relative to a horst link suspension for example.

    I can get my rims hear.

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...&ModelID=19954

    0r

    http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-S...oy-Rim-755.htm

    windy it was very helpful thanks!!!!

    could you start a thread showing your airnimal rhino I would be very intrested to see! thanks again

  10. #10
    jur
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    If the Rhino frame is aluminium forget about bending it.
    My folding bike photo essays www.dekter.net/

  11. #11
    If it dont fold frankly.. thatsut's Avatar
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    Jur, not from 135 to 120?

    what do you think welds or tubes problem?

    anyway just checked sheldon

    "If your frame is made of aluminum or carbon fiber, do not attempt to re-space the frame, these materials are not suitable for "cold setting."

    anyone actually done this?

  12. #12
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    Not recommended to bend the frame as it will damage it (i.e. crack the frame). going from 120mm to 135mm is too much. Either get a longer axle and use spacers (if the hub permits it), or get a new wheel.

  13. #13
    If it dont fold frankly.. thatsut's Avatar
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    Well i really like my hubs, so it looks like i might be "hike'in more than bike'in" and sticking with the brompton unless anyone has any ideas? i think i might of had a case of the dreaded.... folderistus

  14. #14
    Senior Member Lalato's Avatar
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    I think you might be discounting the Jetstream to soon. Check this thread out and the other links in it...

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ight=jetstream

  15. #15
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    Rear triangle is aluminium so I definately would not recommend bending it.

    If you go for it the rims from Chain Reaction are 451 not 406. The Rhino is designed for 406. The 451 rims might make tire choice much more limited.

    Something else to consider with your rear hub would be chainline. Most 3 ring MTB chainsets have a chainline of 50mm on the middle ring. If your hub is narrower than standard the chainline could be well off. You would have to have spacers for the rear cog.

    Not sure how a front suspension fork will behave if its being "bent" to accept a hub of slightly different dimensions. The area of weakness will probably be the bridge/brace above the wheel.

    As for pics - once JE James Cycles deliver my spokes I'll post some of the bike but at this rate you're bike will be finished first!

  16. #16
    jur
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatsut View Post
    Jur, not from 135 to 120?

    what do you think welds or tubes problem?

    anyway just checked sheldon
    I had a small aluminium plate made from the same stuff as bike frames (ie not the usual soft stuff). IIRC it came from a disk drive enclosure, but it was a forged plate not a cast one. I tried bending this: It was extremely stiff, resisting bending until I really forced it. Then it actually cracked instead of bending. Convinced me quick-smart that ally bike frame bending is not to be attempted.
    My folding bike photo essays www.dekter.net/

  17. #17
    If it dont fold frankly.. thatsut's Avatar
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    Thanks all! this was just the sort of help i needed. you all came up with the questions i forgot to ask.

    Ill speak to the manufactures and see what they have to say.

    Thanks again!

  18. #18
    If it dont fold frankly.. thatsut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lalato View Post
    I think you might be discounting the Jetstream to soon. Check this thread out and the other links in it...

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ight=jetstream
    Lalato, i think you have a point, i have seen that thread before. I would like to know long term how the frame holds up. I have heard good reports about the a fork, do you and anyone else out there know the differenc between the jetstream ex and the p8 other than that rediculous fork? (Ridulous is the best possible way )

    thx

  19. #19
    Senior Member Lalato's Avatar
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    The EX has 27 speeds vs 8 via the SRAM Dual Drive. It also has disc brakes. Other than that I'm not sure of differences. I don't own a Jetstream so I can't speak from actual experience with the bike.

    You might try checking the Dahon forums to see if anyone mentions problems with longevity over there.

    --sam

  20. #20
    Hooligan Abneycat's Avatar
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    My concern with the Jetstream would not be the main frame hinge, it would actually be the folding stem hinge. Off-road riding that truly requires an off-road bike often involves pulling on the bars, standing, aggressively manoeuvring, things which are not recommend for folding stems are commonplace. I would be worried about the longevity and reliability of that hinge if you were really doing off-road work worthy of a bike made for the job. I see that the folding hinge is nearly identical to one that would be on a more mundane urban Dahon, with the exception that the stem is not quite as long as the Jetstream, which would allow it a little extra resilience. Probably fine for the relatively tame trails such as the ones shown in the photographs.

    I think the Rhino, Pocket Gnu and Pocket Llama are the 3 most genuine off-road folders you're going to see, and are full, front, and no suspension respectively.

  21. #21
    Senior Member bhkyte's Avatar
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    A few options come to mind.Birdie,moulton,downtube FS,animal range, Montage,jetstream,jack....
    Dual drive Mezzo (GOLD), Dual Drive Mezzo with bullbars (black), White Brompton thingy with Dahon Androes stem and bull bars. Birdie (old sytle) 7 speed. Downtube NS8. Birdie red.

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