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Old 05-02-10, 12:17 PM   #1
kamtsa
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Schwalbe Supreme vs. Kojak tires?

How does the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme tire compare with the Kojak?

I am mostly interested in rolling resistance and flat protection.

Thanks,

Kam
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Old 05-02-10, 05:35 PM   #2
jur
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I haven't tried the Supreme so can't offer anything on it...


After trying out many, many tires with various forms of flat protection I have reached the conclusion don't bother paying extra for eg kevlar. Even the mighty Marathon Plus didn't work for me, I installed Slime Liners after the 4th puncture on my Birdy.

The Kojak rolls very nicely. I am using one on the front on my Birdy, with a Marathon Racer with Slime Liners on the back. I wore out the Marathon Plus, I got more than 10,000km on it before it blew out the side wall, while the blue layer was showing in places. The Racer feels like velvet compared to the Plus which was harsh and wallowed terribly if not pumped to the limit. That was definitely the last Plus I buy.

Slime Liners is the only thing that has so far worked for me for stopping punctures. The caveat is they need careful sanding down of the ends to prevent these from causing punctures.
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Old 05-02-10, 06:13 PM   #3
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I've had two flats with the Supremes, and virtually never before. Yes, it's probably just random bad luck, but compared with every other tire I run this random experience makes me wonder if they are a magnet for nails and the like, and puncture resistance? I guess that feature was turned-off on my wheelset.
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Old 05-02-10, 08:28 PM   #4
kamtsa
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Thanks Jur, this is very informative.

I currently use Kojak on front wheel and Scorcher on the rear and am getting a flat every 30 miles or so, most are from glass and thorns.

1. Does the Slim Liners affects the rolling resistance?

2. What do you think about tire sealants such as this one http://www.no-flats.com/products.php?categid=1 ?

They have YT videos here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRC0hKzPQzE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDywl...eature=related

BTW, I also ordered a CO2 inflator so hopefully this will make the flag fixing easier ;-)

Kam
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Old 05-02-10, 08:40 PM   #5
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I'd go with the Big Apple. Rolls fast in the 20" size and the width soaks up the road bumps. If you want to go faster, Greenspeed Scorcher tires are a good compromise. Stay away from skinny road tires - they're harsh on a small wheel and a suspension fork will barely make the ride tolerable.
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Old 05-02-10, 09:07 PM   #6
jur
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Originally Posted by kamtsa View Post
Thanks Jur, this is very informative.

I currently use Kojak on front wheel and Scorcher on the rear and am getting a flat every 30 miles or so, most are from glass and thorns.

1. Does the Slim Liners affects the rolling resistance?

2. What do you think about tire sealants such as this one http://www.no-flats.com/products.php?categid=1 ?

They have YT videos here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRC0hKzPQzE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDywl...eature=related

BTW, I also ordered a CO2 inflator so hopefully this will make the flag fixing easier ;-)

Kam
Wow, flat every 30mi or so - that would be torture to me. Thankfully my flats are limited to a handful per year. The vast majority due to glass.

[edit]: Actually with Liners the only flats I have ever had were due to the liner itself.[/edit]

I don't have any objective figures about rolling resistance influence of Slime Liners. "I don't notice them" is about the best I can say. I only install a liner on the rear since punctures on the front is rare enough not to bother me.

I haven't tried the sealants. I read too many reviews about the mess they can cause. It just does not appeal to me.

Last edited by jur; 05-02-10 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 05-02-10, 09:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamtsa View Post
Thanks Jur, this is very informative.

I currently use Kojak on front wheel and Scorcher on the rear and am getting a flat every 30 miles or so, most are from glass and thorns.

1. Does the Slim Liners affects the rolling resistance?

2. What do you think about tire sealants such as this one http://www.no-flats.com/products.php?categid=1 ?

They have YT videos here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRC0hKzPQzE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDywl...eature=related

BTW, I also ordered a CO2 inflator so hopefully this will make the flag fixing easier ;-)

Kam
If you are talking about those innocuous 'goats head' thorns, the ones that sit like jacks waiting for you to roll over them, then I have only found one tire that made a difference .. after using different tires and liners, I eventually got the Marathon Pluses (for my trail bike with the dog)... then there were no more flats .. ever.... I even went seeking out the same areas that were guaranteed to flat... I was using the 20x1.75 size .. I think Jur was using the 20x1.35 .. don't know if there is a difference in individual construction between sizes, but mine have been terrific... they are the heaviest Schwalbe tire out there, but you're geared low and do a lot of trails.. might be worth a try.. I don't like flat sealants either..
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Old 05-02-10, 10:24 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by BruceMetras View Post
I think Jur was using the 20x1.35 .. don't know if there is a difference in individual construction between sizes, but mine have been terrific.
Correct, the Birdy ones were quite narrow, and it occurred to me that this is a problem because there isn't "much" blue stuff between you and the road. All the punctures I had were on the side of the blue layer where it gets thin.

My colleague who also has this on his Birdy reports the same wallowing. But he hasn't had any punctures. His Plus is also close to worn out.
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Old 05-03-10, 04:57 PM   #9
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Thanks everybody for the info. I think I should invest some time in few experiments to see what does work for me and what does not. Some of the thing I plan to try are higher air pressure, tire liners, slime (e.g. Joe's no flats) and better tires (e.g. Schwalbe Supreme).


Is is a shame that we were able to send men to the moon and still suffer from flat tires. Flats are so 20th century.

Kam

Edit: hopefully, this will be the ultimate flat solution for me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPLPC...eature=related I am going to place an order now.

Last edited by kamtsa; 05-03-10 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 05-04-10, 02:12 AM   #10
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I can vouch for Slime - the vile green goo you squirt into your tubes. Another post in the Hybrid thread mentions it causes a mess on high pressure tyres, but the poster seemed happy with it in his MTB. I have it in my Marathons 20" - 60PSI and no flats - but there's no telling whether thats due to the Slime or the tyres without taking the tubes out.. If it does make a mess inside the wheel it's water soluble and can be hosed out. It's no big deal. An extra level of 'get you home' insurance. The other messy fixit I've used is 'Finilec' that aerosol foam in a can sealant for car tyres. I had a persistent tube-chewing MTB tyre, in the end, rather than ditch the tyre with its un-findable flint, I filled the tube with Finilec. It held 30 PSI for months until I sold the bike.

I had Slime in my offroad motorcycles for years, but that's another story.

Last edited by snafu21; 05-04-10 at 02:22 AM.
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