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  1. #1
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    What would be my next tire?

    I went today for a ride and about 25 into the ride (4 of which were in full speed on unpaved gravel trail) I noticed that my rear Kojak 406 has a severe bump (see pictures below). I was able to ride few more miles to my car without loosing air but it's time for a new tire.

    Overall I am very happy with the Kojaks (have them for about 1500 miles, running them at 90psi). I have used them both on paved road and very rough gravel trails (especially after I switched to a full suspension bike which made me invincible) so Kojak is the natural choice but I am thinking maybe I should another model a try.

    Having a low rolling resistance on smooth roads is a primary requirements though ride quality and durability on unpaved trails are also things to consider.

    Any suggestion for alternative tire? How does the Marhathon Supreme compare with the Kojaks?

    (BTW, I have Scorcher laying around but it too tight to fit on my rims).

    Thanks,

    Kam

    IMG_0525..jpgIMG_0524..jpg

  2. #2
    Hooligan Abneycat's Avatar
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    I've used both Kojaks and Supremes. Supremes have a much tougher design to them, with thicker sidewalls and a higher level of puncture resistance. They're more voluminous, and are pretty comfortable to ride on. I am not very good at quantifying minuscule differences in rolling resistance, and can't really say what the difference would be, but both tires feel pretty easy to roll to me!

    I personally prefer the Supreme, if the price is not too much to turn you away. The Kojak is a nice light, smooth tire, but the supreme is almost as good in both fields and so much better in others (comfort, durability). Traction is definitely better on gravel with the Supreme to me, owing to the much bigger contact patch (both a bigger tire, and lower pressure). I guess one thing I didn't like about the supreme is that it hums a little at speed, but otherwise its a pretty nice piece of rubber.

  3. #3
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    I have had lots of success with Marathon Racers if you are looking for something more durable. I've never used the Supremes.

    If you like smooth (no) tread tires and you want to spend less, you can always try Primo Comets. Get the kevlar belt if you want more flat protection. If you want to go really wide -- 1.75"+ -- you can look at smooth tread BMX tires.

  4. #4
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Thanks Abneycat and invisiblehand.

    Looking at the Schwalbe site http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/recumbent it seems that the Supreme is optimized for grip while the Racer, similar to the Kojak, is optimized for speed.

    I think I will go with the speed option, even if it is just a placebo, and will give the Racer a try. It is wider than the Kojak so possibly it will also improve the ride.

    My front tire is still a worn up Kojak. I may replace it later with a Supreme for better steering grip. The Kojak has very poor grip on sand and deep gravel but is still usable if I avoid steering.

    Kam

  5. #5
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Duplicate message deleted.
    Last edited by kamtsa; 06-21-10 at 02:29 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member social suicide's Avatar
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  7. #7
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by social suicide View Post
    Do you have any experience with it? From the spec it seems to be wide (=slow) and heavy.

  8. #8
    Senior Member snafu21's Avatar
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    ^^^^

    Jump bike tyre.
    - every mile of road has two miles of ditch -

  9. #9
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    there are a number of 406 tires on this page. http://www.hostelshoppe.com/cgi-bin/...ategory=701800

    The greenspeed scorcher is mentioned as designed for trikes, but has been well regarded for two wheelers as well.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by la2sei View Post
    there are a number of 406 tires on this page. http://www.hostelshoppe.com/cgi-bin/...ategory=701800

    The greenspeed scorcher is mentioned as designed for trikes, but has been well regarded for two wheelers as well.
    Thanks la2sei. That site has impressive selection. I do have a Scorcher at home but it does not fit on my rims. I used it in the past with deeper well rims and it is a decent tire indeed. Kind of a fatter Kojak.

    I have a Racer on order. Hope to get it on time for this weekend's ride.

    Kam

  11. #11
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    I'm totally sold on Greenspeed Schorchers for small wheeled bikes. Fast, comfortable and zero flats after several seasons of use.

    I have them in 349 for my Bike Friday Tikit and 406 for my NWT. My friend liked how mine rode so he just got himself a pair and my Tikit's 3yr old Scorchers are going to be worn out this year and I'll be buying another set.
    safe riding - Vik
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  12. #12
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    I like the 406 on my mini velo Schwinn Qualifier. Its durable and fast and its a good mid size choice between skinny racing tires that don't work well in the size and Big Apple tires.

    So far the verdict is a favorable one and I bought them last year for it thanks to a review Vik wrote up on his site.

  13. #13
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vik View Post
    I'm totally sold on Greenspeed Schorchers for small wheeled bikes. Fast, comfortable and zero flats after several seasons of use.
    Thanks Vik.

    Yes, I like the Scorcher too and I have a used one laying around. Problem is I cannot mount it on the rims I currently use. If I will try really hard and use tools such as the Kool Stop Tire Jack I will probably be able to mount it but then I will have difficulty removing it while on the road.

    I went yesterday for a first ride with the Marathon Racer (on the rear, front is still a Kojak) and I think I like it. On smooth road it felt to me more or less about the same as the Kojak (though a little bit more 'rubbery' but this may be subjective) and on loose sand and gravel it had no traction issues (Kojak sometimes does).

    The Racer looks like a standard Marahton but thinner and the side walls are are significantly softer. The Kojaks I have seem to have more supple sidewalls but they are used to it's not a good comparison.

    I may switch the front to Racer as well to get more steering traction in loose sand and gravel (with the Kojaks I have to go straight through with minimal steering and even then it sometimes slides to the side).

    Overall, the Racer is a keeper for me.

  14. #14
    Each Drop of Sweat Counts
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    Seems like you made the Racer choice already but my two cents......

    I just got back from an extended work trip and shipped my MuP8 down to Ie Shima Japan (off the Okinawa coast) and rode a lot. Our work in on a USMC range and our particular site is not accessible by paved roads. Crushed coral.

    First time down the road I just knew in my heart that the Marathon Racers on the MuP8 weren't going to be touch enough but after several rides down the long coral road I gained increased confidence. I put those racers through hell and back in Ie Shima for about 900 kilometers or so and they did awesome. They were not brand spanking new tires either.

    I love 'em. Tough and they roll real nice.

    I have a Jetstream XP though that I'm thinking about getting Kojaks for.

    John

  15. #15
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekJapan View Post
    ...I love 'em. Tough and they roll real nice....
    Thanks for the feedback John. I never rode on crushed coral trails but I can imagine that they can be very sharp.

    For now I still have the Kojak in front but I may replace it as well in 6 months or so after getting more experience with the Racers.

    The Kojaks are great tires and I have used them on very rough roads with great success but recently I am doing more off roading and it may be too much for them (especially in the rear which does the driving and carries most of the load).

    Kam

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