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Old 06-23-10, 11:56 PM   #1
Leo H.
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Italian orphan

Find this puppy a good home someone. I don't have enough to spare to pick it up or I would in a heartbeat. It's sharp looking:



http://reno.craigslist.org/bik/1789099739.html
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Old 06-24-10, 12:57 AM   #2
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He's not going to get far asking $500 without a picture, but then again, there are all sorts out here .......
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Old 06-24-10, 08:36 AM   #3
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$500?
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Old 06-24-10, 10:37 AM   #4
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The author/seller of this ad tries to appear he/she is interested in the well being of a potential buyer & that particular bike. The only thing that is really present here is barely masked rampant greed & "a sucker born every minute" attitude. For the protection of our newby audience, I would not have bother to post it.
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Old 06-24-10, 11:52 AM   #5
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for $500 you can have soo many more NEW bike choices and with change also. Someone really has to be a sucker to buy this old thing which i've seen alot of them with almost similar frames. And if one is willing to spend that much on a vintage, then at least buy a raleigh 20 and get a much better ride!

Plus I've seen worse junk for sale here's one in my area:

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/bik/1799926597.html

Last edited by Azreal911; 06-24-10 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 06-24-10, 12:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by folder fanatic View Post
The author/seller of this ad tries to appear he/she is interested in the well being of a potential buyer & that particular bike. The only thing that is really present here is barely masked rampant greed & "a sucker born every minute" attitude. For the protection of our newby audience, I would not have bother to post it.
To be fair to the craigslister ( I have no personal connection with them), he did seek out advice and value here on Bikeforums.net in the Classic and Vintage Appraisal section before he posted his ad. (I looked at his posts in the bikeforums archive)
As for not having a photo, I too avoid them, but if I'm that interested, I'll contact the person and obtain an accurate image in some manner. Perhaps a Raleigh 20 would be a better ride, but it wouldn't be near as stylish.
I guess I'm a sucker for Italian styling. I did not intend to start a snit on the forum when I posted this, though the roflmao icon was cute.

Last edited by Leo H.; 06-24-10 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 06-24-10, 07:52 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Leo H. View Post
To be fair to the craigslister ( I have no personal connection with them), he did seek out advice and value here on Bikeforums.net in the Classic and Vintage Appraisal section before he posted his ad. (I looked at his posts in the bikeforums archive)
As for not having a photo, I too avoid them, but if I'm that interested, I'll contact the person and obtain an accurate image in some manner. Perhaps a Raleigh 20 would be a better ride, but it wouldn't be near as stylish.
I guess I'm a sucker for Italian styling. I did not intend to start a snit on the forum when I posted this, though the roflmao icon was cute.
Or a more realistic view on what is really going on & percolating underneath in the folding bike world for quite a while now-from long ago 11-03-05 to be exact:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=151229
Things like need and cool bring about a "craze." Then we have a tulip or housing type bubble form on Craigslist & Ebay by maddened money-grubby flippers and their ignorant money-tossing buying followers. I just hope that folding bikes are not next on the hipster radar like old & new regular bikes have become. Sadly, I think we are heading toward it as the "bimbo brigade" adopts another latest, greatest device to gentrify (like blighted older neighborhoods where pensioners & the poor are kicked out by rising rents).

See for yourselves when you visit websites only listing both new & used Dahons of any year or model for example over a given period of time. The prices seem to reflect this "sudden discovery."

Last edited by folder fanatic; 06-24-10 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 06-24-10, 11:54 PM   #8
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It's funny to see R20's and older folding bikes held in such high value in the USA. Over here in Blighty they were/are regarded as the lowest form of granny shopping-bike, unreliable rust-bucket, usually fitted with that curse of bicycling, the English Sturmey Archer three-speed. (awaits arrival of flame-war) . My local dump will generally have a couple rotting in corner.

But that's a generational and cultural viewpoint, a 25 year old with cash in the bank will not have been exposed to the predjudicial loathing of the R20 and similar of my generation, and might see an R20 as cool - especially as espoused by guru Sheldon Brown.

One of the guys in the current R20 thread says: "The SW 3 speed hub is nice as is the front drum brake." Drum brakes and hub gears still send a shudder of horror up my spine, having grown up with them. The cultural divide.

This forum, for instance is mainly about bicycle ownership, not bicycling. There are very few posts about actually getting outside on a bike. Hence the Pootle thread, and the HPFBS. Bicycling as a hobby, not bicycles. It's very interesting that when the 'chaps' of the HPFBS get together there's almost no talk of bikes other than the brief admiration of a new acquisition or the upgrade of an old one. Frightfully British, doncha' know?

Gas-pipe steel frames have their charm. But not at any price for me. What price an old Brit R20, or a twenty year old Apollo, or that Italian job? Cash speaks loudly and if people have plenty, others will find something to sell to them.

There's little folding content here, but there is a lot of interest in older bikes in the UK too though mainly for riding, not flipping on Ebay. But as yet, in England, the R20 is still seen mainly as a charmless eater of garage space. It's 'not a proper bicycle'

Last edited by snafu21; 06-25-10 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 06-25-10, 01:49 AM   #9
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snafu21,

You just hurt my tender Aussie feelings, R20s and SA 3 spd IGHs are a curse????

As I pootle down the road on my glorious R20,
The SA AW 3 spd merrily clicking away,
This sturdy, dour, gas pipe work horse,
Valiantly strides, nay, proudly prances,
Defying mocking glances and shrill chuckles,
Enduring, resilient, endearing, to those who know,
Mock not, ye embittered owners of feeble modern folders,
Crane not your proud necks in churlish ridicule,
Bare not your cruel judgmental teeth and lashing vicious tongues,
We, the wise, love it's annoying 26 tpi 76mm bottom bracket,
We adore the frustrating nylon head stem bush,
The totally scary and out of this world lack of brakes that might send us to an early grave in fits of terrible anguish and pain...
We who know, we the R20 nutter club.

Stevegor, owner of 3 R20s
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Old 06-25-10, 01:58 AM   #10
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No, ignore me. Here, the R20 is/was vilified as Grannies scoot. My mum had one, it lasted two years, then the IGH died and it rusted away. In the garage at the moment is the follow-on bike; a 1960 Pashley roadster. It has the SA 3 speed, which is broken. The bike dangles from the rafters like some awful giant black bat. I refuse to fix it. It will fall on my head one day and kill me, for my heresy.

Nice prose-poem, BTW. I teach English Lit. in my spare time. I like the alliteration in lines six and seven. We tutors enjoy that sort of thing. Although I feel that the possesive in line 10 is mis-placed.

What the hell is a nylon head stem-brush?

Last edited by snafu21; 06-25-10 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 06-25-10, 02:11 AM   #11
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That disabled R20 of your Mum's just heard what you wrote, snafu21
Alas, I fear you are doomed, be very aware of gaggles of vengeful R20s stalking you as you walk down dark lanes in the early hours, they will hunt you down without mercy and sympathy........

Millions of years ago I excelled in story writing and self expression in Literature, now I scribble, a mere shadow of my self in prose.

BTW R20s do not have ball bearings and race on the top of the head tube, they use a nylon bush that is inserted there, that acts like a bearing. It helps with the quick release adjustable head stem.

Last edited by stevegor; 06-25-10 at 02:12 AM. Reason: correct
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Old 06-25-10, 02:12 AM   #12
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Ah- bush, not brush. My bad. The mere thought of an R20 nylon brush gives me the vapours.

Ugh.

Last edited by snafu21; 06-25-10 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 06-25-10, 10:32 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snafu21 View Post
It's funny to see R20's and older folding bikes held in such high value in the USA. Over here in Blighty they were/are regarded as the lowest form of granny shopping-bike, unreliable rust-bucket, usually fitted with that curse of bicycling, the English Sturmey Archer three-speed. (awaits arrival of flame-war) . My local dump will generally have a couple rotting in corner.

But that's a generational and cultural viewpoint, a 25 year old with cash in the bank will not have been exposed to the predjudicial loathing of the R20 and similar of my generation, and might see an R20 as cool - especially as espoused by guru Sheldon Brown.

Most people that stop me about any of my folders never heard of Sheldon Brown, don't know a wrench (spanner in the UK?) from a screwdriver, could care less about bike frame metals, and like as many "gears" as can be crammed on the bike or just a Fixie.
One of the guys in the current R20 thread says: "The SW 3 speed hub is nice as is the front drum brake." Drum brakes and hub gears still send a shudder of horror up my spine, having grown up with them. The cultural divide.

This forum, for instance is mainly about bicycle ownership, not bicycling. There are very few posts about actually getting outside on a bike. Hence the Pootle thread, and the HPFBS. Bicycling as a hobby, not bicycles. It's very interesting that when the 'chaps' of the HPFBS get together there's almost no talk of bikes other than the brief admiration of a new acquisition or the upgrade of an old one. Frightfully British, doncha' know?

Gas-pipe steel frames have their charm. But not at any price for me. What price an old Brit R20, or a twenty year old Apollo, or that Italian job? Cash speaks loudly and if people have plenty, others will find something to sell to them.

There's little folding content here, but there is a lot of interest in older bikes in the UK too though mainly for riding, not flipping on Ebay. But as yet, in England, the R20 is still seen mainly as a charmless eater of garage space. It's 'not a proper bicycle'
Most people who stop me about one of my folders as I ride them don't know a wrench (spanner in the UK?) from a screwdriver, never heard of Sheldon Brown, could care less what the frame's metal composition is, and is all set and primed to buy a folder. This is the usual customer that appears on the doorstep of a LBS around here or browses online on Craigslist, Ebay & other sites. I admit that my father attempted to "shield me" from getting my hands too dirty with mechanical things. But even he knew that he did not want me to be taken advantaged of by others since he realized bicycles-and later folding ones- are what I need during times of crisis (i.e. transit strikes). I was carefully educated in what to look for in the type of bike that I normally use and need to have around the house and how and when to say no to a used bike & when to buy a new one. I selected through the local paper, cleaned up, and lightly fixed the last bike (the Phillips) before taking it to the LBS under his watchful eye-even though he was too sick to do it all for me even then. When the first Dahon was bought new, he told me from his hospital bed how to choose one and how much money to spend. I was lucky I had him in the past to "shield me" from making bad choices. Now I have all of you to help me through my "new" Twenty's clean-up and light upgrades process.

It is nice to know that there are still Twenties over in the UK or-dare I even think about the more remote possibility of Australia-to pick up and use when I get lucky enough to visit there, rather than just Bromptons only. I just don't want others to be caught up in these periodic "greed cycles" and get hurt. I make it a point to send these eager buyers right here on Bike Forums for their own educations.

Last edited by folder fanatic; 06-25-10 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 06-25-10, 01:58 PM   #14
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If you get here Folder Fanatic, you can use one of mine
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Old 06-29-10, 07:48 PM   #15
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Italian? Did somebody say Italian?



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Old 06-30-10, 12:02 AM   #16
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Sheldon Brown was responsible for the change in perception of the R20, and he was right. They're great little bikes, and much better than the other folders of the age. You'll find more people than you'd think that like them over here too; I was approached by a Bromptonaut on the train who was admiring mine and saying how much he wanted one.
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Old 06-30-10, 12:11 AM   #17
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Stylin'

Social Suicide, that's hot! Wow, is that your ride or are you just teasing with some pictures you have laying around? I gots questions if it is!

65er, I got your message, though I'm on the downhill approaching the century mark myself...is this size helpful?

I think I've got Bickertonia, I'm risking big time discord trying to go after a $50 Bickerton I saw on a Florida craigslist
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Old 06-30-10, 07:46 AM   #18
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I think that Italian folding thing is pretty cool, and I'd totally go for it at the right price. $500 ain't what I was thinking. If it was free, I would pay shipping from Nevada, though.
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Old 06-30-10, 09:05 PM   #19
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For a Due Mila in good shape $500 is a decent price. A knackered one went for $325 on ebay earlier this year.
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