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Panniers or trailers?

Old 07-15-10, 04:03 PM
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Panniers or trailers?

I need your help once again, fellow folder fanatics.

We'll be taking our NWT to France, and I'm trying to figure out how take our luggage with us. Should do panniers or the BF trailer that attaches to the bike suitcase?

We need to buy trailers (on sale right now at BF website), or we need to buy panniers (the ones we have are not really fit anymore), so we'll be spending money either way.

I'm a bit concerned about the handling of the bike with the suitcase on wheels behind it, and riding on narrow roads with it.

We have never toured on a folder, but I'm hoping that riding it loaded up with panniers wouldn't be too different from riding full size bike loaded up.

If touring with panniers, we need to find a hotel that will want to store our bike suitcases.

If touring with trailers, we can skip Paris all together and get on the train to our first destination straight from the airport, giving ourselves an extra day of riding.

I know it's personal preference, but we've been going back and forth for weeks, and keep finding pros and cons for both. We need to decide soon and make our purchases. What do you think? I feel like I may have to consult the magic eight ball....
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Old 07-15-10, 04:40 PM
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If it's a lot of stuff, definitely trailer. If not so much, then panniers.
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Old 07-15-10, 04:50 PM
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Some years ago I have seen discussions on this elsewhere on the bf site... perhaps at touring. So the topic has definitely been discussed. From what I remember, panniers were more preferred but I don't remember the reasons.
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Old 07-15-10, 04:55 PM
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I'll search BF site, thanks jur!
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Old 07-15-10, 07:00 PM
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I have toured with panniers and alternatively with a BoB trailer on both road and hard MTB trails.

With panniers on a folder the load sits quite low and the handling IMHO is very good, and as smaller wheels are stronger they tend to carry the load better than 700c in terms of broken spokes etc. Well, that's what I've found and I only use SS spokes x36/32.

With the BoB single wheel trailer it takes a bit to get used to the "feel", but the benefits are having it behind you and being more aerodynamic than panniers is hard to beat. Downside is, hard to park if you don't have a kickstand.
Using your 2 wheel BF trailer is a different story, but it will be wider, more strain on the frame as it has one only connection point and despite what some might say it doesn't handle as well as a single wheel trailer. Upside is, when you arrive at your accommodation you simply unhitch the trailer and go for a ride to the cafe.

My advice is to try both before you go on your trip, give both some serious testing, then decide.
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Old 07-15-10, 07:14 PM
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something to consider.. A Trailer is one thing to deal with, off the bike, with wheels on it

panniers will be several things to cope with ..

Up stairs , packing into checked luggage each way, at overnight accommodations,

and many panniers don't clip together into pairs, so that is each bag..

Non BF stuff same 12" wheels & tires though, ...

I got a Carry Freedom City trailer , it consists of a suspended bag that snaps out of the frame , that you can wear,
and a frame that will fold flat within the frame's perimeter ..

Guess a regular suitcase will strap on top of the CF , biketrailershop folks tied a duffle bag on top, and used it alone on a tandem tour.. didnt say if they used indoor lodging or tent camped overnight..
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Old 07-16-10, 02:22 AM
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Had a BOB Yak trailer for longer tours on my big bikes. Great for hauling a lot of stuff as long as the terrain is flat. I've found the trailer, if fairly loaded with gear, becomes unstable on steep decents. I can't imagine doing that on a small wheeled bike, let alone a folding bicycle. Panniers on the other hand, are a dream to ride with, even if its packed to the hilt. In some instances, the bike actually felt more stable with the loaded panniers.
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Old 07-16-10, 02:33 AM
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In my experience, a two wheeled trailer is vastly more stable than a single wheel trailer. I'd be going for a two wheel trailer with a decent wheel size (ie 16 or 20 inch). I think the downsides over panniers are twofold - more drag with more wheels on the road, and having to take and store the trailer.

But I'd still do it this way.
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Old 07-16-10, 04:03 AM
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I've toured both ways with my Bike Friday Pocket Rocket and agree with nekohime that a key consideration is how much stuff you plan to carry. Another one is whether you want the flexibility of doing a one-way tour since the trailer/suitcase makes it much easier to fly into one city and back from another.

I found the handling with the trailer to be excellent, with no stability issues even on fast descents. But it still felt a bit odd when going over bumps to have the trailer give a little push or pull at times. The trailer never caused me any concerns on the road. I thought it might in some cities, such as Toronto, with lots of streetcar tracks, but there was never a problem. If anything I got a little more clearance from passing cars due to the trailer width. On my first trip I was concerned about visibility one night when I was still on the road after dark. So I bought some reflective tape and applied it liberally to the side of the suitcase that faces to the rear.

My main issue with the trailer is that it added considerable weight and a bit of rolling resistance. I try to keep my camping gear load down to about 20 lbs. and the trailer/suitcase added significantly to that total. This wouldn't be as much of an issue for someone carrying a heavier load, but for me it makes it preferable to use panniers except on trips where I want the one-way option.

Personally I found it just as easy to unclip the panniers as to undo the trailer hitch - with either arrangement I always had a fully unloaded bike once I reached my campsite. And I found it somewhat easier to deal with carrying the panniers up to hotel rooms than dealing with the trailer. Yes, it's only one piece, but a big and awkward piece.
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Old 07-16-10, 04:37 AM
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Keep in mind that the max weight for your model without upgrade is 220lbs, so it's your weight plus whatever your carrying. With the trailer you can at least distribute some of the weight on it and carry more things. Best answer I can give is call BF and tell them about your situation to get their opinion on the matter. If anyone can give you a good assessment on what their bikes can do in different situations it's them.

As for your luggage I don't know any hotels that will hold them, but I reckon there's gotta be some storage places like in the US where you can rent some space. Failing that you might try warmshowers.org or other places like couchsurfing.com where you can meet friendly people and maybe they'll hold them for you.

Here's some more good links to help plan your trip.
Other tourers adventures https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/p...id=149366&v=1l
touring with a trailer https://www.bicycletouring101.com/SingleWheelTrailer.htm

Just so happens that I'm planning the same tour through France on my Downtube 8FS and I'm thinking of using a trailer myself for the extra weight (aside from my 200lbs weight) I'll be carrying since I plan on stealth camping through my trip. I plan on making my own trailer and testing it out before I make the trip. This trip will definitely put my little FS to the test and so far the only problem I'm anticipating is the rear suspension giving me problems with the trailer. I suppose if it does I could just stiffen it up and see if that works.

Here's some links on building your own trailer if that interests you:
https://www.instructables.com/id/Bicy...-%2430-for-pa/
https://www.biketrailerblog.com/2008/...-trailer-list/
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Old 07-16-10, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by JulianEdgar
In my experience, a two wheeled trailer is vastly more stable than a single wheel trailer.
I think that this is even more true with the Bike FRiday folding rear triangle. Apparently -- I have never used a BOB -- the twisting forces are not resisted so well with the "seat" stays being supported by a quick release.

Anyway, I'm with Nekohime, as stuff and weight increases the trailer is the better bet. While wider, longer and more rolling resistance, it is also easier to pack trailers, IME. Slow speed handling and parking is easier with a trailer as long as you don't have to back up, IME. Trailers do change the handling of a bike somewhat -- most of my trailer riding is with the kiddies making the entire load around 80-90 pounds -- but I adjust in about 30 seconds.
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Old 07-16-10, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by HK 45
Keep in mind that the max weight for your model without upgrade is 220lbs, so it's your weight plus whatever your carrying. With the trailer you can at least distribute some of the weight on it and carry more things. Best answer I can give is call BF and tell them about your situation to get their opinion on the matter. If anyone can give you a good assessment on what their bikes can do in different situations it's them.
Didn't Bike Friday change the way they report weight limits?

I think lucille has a NWT which used to have a reported standard total weight limit of ~260 pounds. But I seem to recall that Bike FRiday now reports rider weight limits instead and assume 30-40 pounds of cargo.

Our experience is that many hotels will hold suitcases for you (we never had a hotel say no, but we don't travel much). At least this was true prior to us having babies.
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Old 07-16-10, 11:00 AM
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Hi lucille
I been travelling (Laos,Thailand,Cambodia) with only panniers (5 ortliebs),theres no problem the bike handle is good and you can carry everything I carry about 50kg on very bad roades and the bikes didn t suffer.My next trip to the Argentinian Andes I will be tasting for the 1 time a carry freedom y large trailer,we are taking a trailer because need to carry more stoff(like water and food) the distance are longers and there no many supplys between the villages.Conclusion for Europe panniers
Saludos
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Old 07-16-10, 11:41 AM
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Just some thoughts:

- consider what you'll want for day to day use as well as other tours
- panniers can be customized for a specific purpose [ie. 4 panniers for big trip, 2 lrg rear panniers only for moderate trip, 2 sm front panniers only, down to a single pannier]
- the shorter bike with panniers is easier to maneuver and get on/off transit connections
- trailers are nice because they get a lot of the weight off the bike and you can quickly turn your bike from cargo/gear hauler to light day to day ride
- being able to fly your Bike Friday for free [check with your airline] could be a benefit that pays for the trailer

I don't think there is a wrong answer here...both solutions work...depends which issues you care about more?
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Old 07-16-10, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by lucille
We have never toured on a folder, but I'm hoping that riding it loaded up with panniers wouldn't be too different from riding full size bike loaded up.

If touring with panniers, we need to find a hotel that will want to store our bike suitcases.
Your folders fully loaded will handle just like fully loaded full sized touring bikes.

If you book rooms at the same hotel the days you fly in/out they will likely be happy to hold your suitcases. Also give you a chance to ride around Paris a bit.
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Old 07-16-10, 12:19 PM
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I have been overthinking this same situation. My plan is to go ahead and get the suitcase trailer combo. Then travel with my panniers and personal gear in a large duffel bag. I have used trailers in the past as well as the panniers and both situations worked for me. I love the idea of being able to pack the bike in a solid case for protection and then not worry about what to do with the case when I get where I am going.

If I were doing an out and back tour the panniers would get the nod, if I were doing a destination to a different destination tour I would go with the trailer and possibly a small set of panniers on the front rack. FWIW I typically run Ortlieb Classic Rollers, on all my tour bikes (I currently have 2 full sized and will be getting a NWT soon)

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Old 07-16-10, 01:20 PM
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Thank you all for responses! It's great to hear different opinions to help make up one's mind. I really appreciate you taking the time. :-)

stevegor, very glad to hear this. I found that my hybrid got a lot more stable when I put the front panniers on.

fietsbob, good point! I did think of it, and we're looking for thin, easy to fold bags that would fit all of our panniers for transport. We'll be taking some trains, so can't have too many packages.

prathmann, for this particular trip, we're doing a loop, but yes being able to fly to one place and fly out of another one is great! Good to hear the handling was with the trailer was good. Very helpful post, thank you.

HK 45, As invisiblehand said, I have a NWT, which was built to support my weight and about 30-40 lbs of gear. Don't think I would be able to carry more than 40 lbs of gear, but either way I'd be easily within the weight limit.
Thanks for the links, but the only kind of trailer that's a consideration for this trip would be the Bike Friday one that would convert our suitcase/flight case into a trailer. I can't possibly transport yet another piece of luggage (times two) on the plane.

gdlerner, wow! very impressive! You're right, we don't need to carry so much food and water, so panniers should be enough.

Good points, Vik. Most airlines do charge for a second piece of luggage now, ends up being the same as being charged for the actual bicycle. :-( BTW, Westjet still allows for two pieces.
I'm hoping that it won't be too difficult to find a hotel that won't mind storing the suitcases. Sending emails now.

wahoonc, suitcases and trailers are on sale at BF now! Make sure to get the packing supplies, well worth the money. https://store.bikefriday.com/index.php?cPath=46


The more I think about it, and after reading your responses, I realize that the only reason we would want to use the trailer is not to have to store the suitcases at the hotel. We need the suitcases to safely fly with the bikes, but I think we both prefer riding with panniers.
We won't have a lot of luggage, won't be camping or riding in wilderness (although as we have already experienced, good luck buying any food or water in the French countryside on Sunday!). I'm sure we won't have problems filling the four panniers , but want to be as minimal as possible. Which is where most of you recommend panniers.


Thanks again, everyone! It's great to hear your thoughts. I think I will order those panniers now...

Now... which colour.... hmmmmm

(just kidding!)
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Old 07-16-10, 02:03 PM
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Here is something else to think about. Last year I went on a Colorado tour with Adventure Cycling. Rode the Amtrak train for CA - CO. The checked baggage limit has been reduced to 50lbs per bag, just like the airlines. When I put my NWT + Front/Rear folding racks + trailer in the suitcase it was 56lbs. Had to move the trailer bits and racks to another suitcase to keep it under 50lbs.
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Old 07-16-10, 02:13 PM
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You know, when we flew with our bikes couple of weeks ago, NWT in a suitcase, with tools and empty water bottle, it was 52 lbs. They said it was OK, but may get charged next time! It would have been a $50 charge. I think I will have to take tools and pedals to the regular luggage.
So yes, the trailer stuff would have to be separate, I'm afraid.
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Old 07-16-10, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by derail3
Here is something else to think about. Last year I went on a Colorado tour with Adventure Cycling. Rode the Amtrak train for CA - CO. The checked baggage limit has been reduced to 50lbs per bag, just like the airlines. When I put my NWT + Front/Rear folding racks + trailer in the suitcase it was 56lbs. Had to move the trailer bits and racks to another suitcase to keep it under 50lbs.
IIRC Amtrak has had the 50# limit for quite a while. I have been riding them regularly for the past 4 years and that is what it was then, there are some trains that have a lower limit too. I can't see my personal stuff and the bike exceeding the 100# 2 suitcase limit. I have only had Amtrak weigh the checked baggage, never a carry on. Some airlines have started weigh carry ons now.

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Old 07-16-10, 04:04 PM
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I might add something here,

With a BoB trailer the hitching system sits on the bike's rear wheel's axle, so only part of the actual cargo weight is place there, the bulk is on the trailer's wheel. This means that unlike other trailers where the connection point is on the bike's frame and a greater twisting force is evident, the BoB seems to follow on behind relatively free of that problem. Once you gain experience loading a BoB correctly, high speeds can be achieved quite safely, it's all about knowing your limitations and bike handling skills, that applies to fully loaded panniers too.

On my SWBs panniers are my choice, MTB and 700c the BoB.

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Old 07-16-10, 04:08 PM
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I have toured several times now, ranging from short long-weekend credit-card ones to full camping multiple-week ones.

The one big thing I found was that camping gear is the majority of my load.

Clothes: I carefully select clothes that do double duty, ie can be worn on and off the bike. This way I don't have to lug double sets. Especially with cold-weather clothing - just one set and use the layer approach.

We generally wash the day's stuff every day, just a quick hand-wash and rinse in a basin, of socks, undies, shirt and her knicks for the day. That set will dry during the night. A second set is worn. A third set is ready to wear.

This way our load is really light - just 2 panniers is more than enough. There is room for the food with that.

We just add the camping gear to that in another set of panniers.

When travelling abroad, I use duct tape and tape sets of panniers together, and stick each set in those cheap Asian woven plastic bags ($2 at thrift shops). These are light and fold up small so they are not a hassle to cart along. And being cheap if they break during a flight, well there plenty more, and the panniers are still held together with duct tape. We take a roll with us.

Clothing: Avoid cotton, except maybe for a T-shirt for day use only - cotton takes forever to dry. Polyester is the way to go with everything that is next to the skin. Wool for warm tops. Arm and leg warmers for warmth (on and off the bike). Zip-off pants (quick-dry type) also do double duty although I have shorts for cycling, the pant seats take a beating.

You get the idea - pack very light, be strict. Anything you pack must be capable of double duty.

TIP: The most useful thing I have found to be bungy cords with plastic hooks. These can be used for so many things, one important use is as a clothes line. Especially in motels there is often no clothes line and when camping, this may be far away or nonexistent. But with the elastic cords, you can make a clothes line from virtually anything in the room or whatever bushes or fence. Plus you hardly need any pegs - just stick the cord through a pants leg or through the shirt arms etc. The only pegs you need are for socks. Several cords are linked together for extra length as needed.

See? Double duty again.

Last edited by jur; 07-16-10 at 04:19 PM. Reason: added bungy tip
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Old 07-16-10, 05:04 PM
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Very informative post Jur should help me out a lot for seeing what to pack which is probably the #1 thing that is giving me a headache.

Originally Posted by lucille
HK 45, As invisiblehand said, I have a NWT, which was built to support my weight and about 30-40 lbs of gear. Don't think I would be able to carry more than 40 lbs of gear, but either way I'd be easily within the weight limit.
Thanks for the links, but the only kind of trailer that's a consideration for this trip would be the Bike Friday one that would convert our suitcase/flight case into a trailer. I can't possibly transport yet another piece of luggage (times two) on the plane.

The more I think about it, and after reading your responses, I realize that the only reason we would want to use the trailer is not to have to store the suitcases at the hotel. We need the suitcases to safely fly with the bikes, but I think we both prefer riding with panniers.
We won't have a lot of luggage, won't be camping or riding in wilderness (although as we have already experienced, good luck buying any food or water in the French countryside on Sunday!). I'm sure we won't have problems filling the four panniers , but want to be as minimal as possible. Which is where most of you recommend panniers.


Thanks again, everyone! It's great to hear your thoughts. I think I will order those panniers now...

Now... which colour.... hmmmmm

(just kidding!)
weird I always thought the weight was total, but that there was an upgrade to make it stronger.
https://community.bikefriday.com/faq?...1703&x=13&y=10

hehe now you got me looking at those BF models and wondering if I should buy one, but the thought of it being damaged by those gorillas at the airport or worse stolen always stops me from buying one.

I thought about buying a trailer, but I figure for the price of the trailer I could upgrade my current wheels, brakes and maybe something else. Then transfer my old parts to my DIY trailer and have some spare parts I can transfer to my bike in case anything happens. Only thing that attracts me about buying the trailer is if I could get it in France just so I wouldn't have to deal with the airlines.



If you can fly BA alone it's much better than having to go through AA. They let you carry the bike in a box as your free checked luggage as long as it meets these dimensions 75in x 29.5in x 25.5in

One of the links I gave you has a person that did it and later dumped the box hopping he could get another from a local Bike shop.
Originally Posted by lucille
You know, when we flew with our bikes couple of weeks ago, NWT in a suitcase, with tools and empty water bottle, it was 52 lbs. They said it was OK, but may get charged next time! It would have been a $50 charge. I think I will have to take tools and pedals to the regular luggage.
So yes, the trailer stuff would have to be separate, I'm afraid.
Yeah that always worries me which is why I think I'll take an extra suitcase with me just for the trailer and some extra gear. My bike is 27lbs, 9lbs at best for suitcase and you can see I've got about maybe 10 pounds of play there. I doubt they'd let me take tools or other camping gear on my carry on, so a second suitcase it is for me.

Last edited by HK 45; 07-16-10 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 07-17-10, 02:50 PM
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I forgott before I got my trailer I asked BF and they don t recommend one wheel trailer like the BOB thats the reason I got a carry freedom,and panniers the best are ORTLIEB
Saludos
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Old 07-17-10, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by gdlerner
I forgott before I got my trailer I asked BF and they don t recommend one wheel trailer like the BOB thats the reason I got a carry freedom,and panniers the best are ORTLIEB
Saludos
Out of curiosity, why did BF say that?
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