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  1. #1
    Senior Member SunnyFlorida's Avatar
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    Can anyone identify this folder assuming it is one?

    I work for a charitable center and occasionally people donate bikes. Most of the time we try and sell them to raise money for the center. Today someone told me of this possible folder thinking I may want to get it. I was looking for a beater type bike to learn basic bike mechanics on besides having a backup for my backup.

    It's a bit of a plus if it's a folder. However, I'm not sure what it is and whether or not it can fold anymore. See pics below:

    Thirft Store Fol&#100.jpg

    Close up of leve&#11.jpg

    Notice the lever in the 2nd pic. It unscrews and normally I think the bike would fold (at least in half) but right now it doesn't. It's been painted it seems.

    Needs new brakes, tubes, the chain seems pretty shot and it needs a good cleaning. It's a one speed. The same style of lever is on the seat post and it seems to be covered in a thickish amount of harden sand. The springs/coils of the saddle are pretty rusted.

    Long term project that's for sure.

    But I'm curious to know what model/make it is. Does anyone know.

    If the pics are too small I've found that if you double click on the image, it gets bigger.

  2. #2
    jur
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    That's the venerable Raleigh Twenty.
    My folding bike photo essays www.dekter.net/

  3. #3
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    It appears to be a three speed by the amount of cables I see in the picture.
    Speed Uno
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  4. #4
    Senior Member SunnyFlorida's Avatar
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    Get out!!!! Get out!!!! My own Raleigh Twenty.

    Oh Lord!!!! I'm leaving a message on my boss's e-mail telling him on pain of death not to give it away before I get there tomorrow.
    Last edited by SunnyFlorida; 09-01-10 at 09:07 PM.

  5. #5
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Nothing but a Raleigh Twenty looks like that... unless it's a Phillip's or one of the other captive brands Raleigh had.

    These are very nice bikes with quirky Raleigh threading and well worth the time and effort you put into them... this place is full of twentyphiles who would be more than willing to help you out.

  6. #6
    Senior Member SunnyFlorida's Avatar
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    jur - Wow!!!! Thanks again for the good news. I never thought I'd be so happy and eager to buy a rusty ole bike.

    I was almost going to check tomorrow evening, after work, for responses. Thank God I decided to check my e-mails before I went to bed and just decided to click into the Folder Forum while I was at it.

    Dyno - I didn't see a shifter off hand but I may have missed it. I had to make a path toward and around it just to look at it and take some quick pics before they locked up the shed for the night.

    Sixty-Five - Cool!!! I'll definitely need their help. This is going to be a long-term project. So much to learn.
    Last edited by SunnyFlorida; 09-02-10 at 07:09 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member stevegor's Avatar
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    .... and now another poor unsuspecting victim falls into the R20 abyss...


    Stevegor, lunatic owner of 3 R20s
    I'm lame,
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    I'm stonkered.

  8. #8
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    The shifter may be the right grip.
    Speed Uno
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  9. #9
    Senior Member stevegor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynocoaster View Post
    The shifter may be the right grip.
    Yes, you're right.
    There are 3 cables.
    I'm lame,
    I'm sore,
    I'm stonkered.

  10. #10
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Looks like a 1972-73 Raleigh Twenty, not sure about the blue color that is throwing me off a bit. It has the 406 (BMX) sized wheels. Definitely a 3 speed. Missing the chain guard. Looks like a grip shifter rather than the trigger, but it is hard to tell from the picture. The hinge is there and it has the L-bolt. There is a second bolt on with a nut on the underside of the hinge plate, if it is tightened down completely the bike will not fold even if you take the L bolt completely out.

    Good luck and I hope you grab it! If you do I would be interested to know what the serial number is and see some better pictures of it, hopefully from the drive side.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

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  11. #11
    Senior Member SunnyFlorida's Avatar
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    Aaron - Yes, I was able to grab the folder. It's in my screened in patio under a tarp. I've found out that:

    1.It does indeed still fold.

    2. Unfortunately, the pedals, handlebars and/or handlepost do not fold. Is the handlepost suppose to at least?

    3. The saddle doesn't look like the original saddle. Can I assume the original was once a a Brooks type saddle?

    4. The seat post has a fair amount of rust but the seat post lever to adjust the seat still works.

    5. The bike has definitely been painted over. May or may not change it. Whatever the case, it stays for now.

    6. Front brake still works and rear brake kind of works. Will probably need new cabling and pads. Brake levers seem fine.

    7. Tires are flat. Haven't pump them up to see if that would help. Will do that during the weekend.

    8. The shifter is one of those old ones that almost looks like a bell and it's covered in and outside with rust. Cabling seems shot. The chain and hub is very rusty but seems okay. Once I've fix the tires and brakes enough I'll be able to test out the shifter.

    I know you wanted me to find the serial # but where would I find it, assuming it hasn't been covered up by the paint and what will the serial # tell me?

    Dyno - Now I know why I missed the shifter, I kept looking for a twist shifter. I forgot that shifters looked like that (almost like bells) - back in the day.

    Steve - Yes, I've fallen into the abyss and it seems that my nephew is not far behind.

    He helped me take the folder home today. He's the one that got it to fold.

    He's already suggested that we move it to his garage so we could "both work on it". I'm tempted to do that but if I do, he'll be too tempted to fix it himself - "for auntie" which would deprive me from the learning experience I want.

    I told him he could be my consultant.

    During the weekend, I'll take some more detailed shots of the folder and post it in a separate thread. By that time, I'll be able to examine it more closely.

    I'm going to assume that the first order of business is to strip it and give it a good scrubbing.
    Last edited by SunnyFlorida; 09-02-10 at 07:27 PM.

  12. #12
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    Glad you scored the 20. There are several threads where the 20's are going through a build.
    Speed Uno
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  13. #13
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    The handle bar does not really fold. The lever for it allows you to adjust it up and down and swivel them around to make the package smaller. Serial number should be on the left rear just above or behind the where the wheel bolts on. I am curious about that to see if it can be used for dating the bikes. You can also look for numbers stamped on the rear hub. Should look something like 74 6 that would mean the hub was built in June of 1974 and the bike shortly there after.

    Here is picture of my 1972 folded. I use a small bungie cord wrapped around the front wheel and through the frame to keep it folded when I am carrying it or or storing it, that is the red thing in the picture.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

    "Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
    RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
    _Nicodemus

    "Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
    Aluminum: barely a hundred
    Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
    _krazygluon

  14. #14
    Senior Member
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    You'll also want to check out http://raleightwenty.webs.com. Lots of good information there, but warning, it's only for the already infected.

  15. #15
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    That's definitely one of the more awkward folds I've seen--looks like it would tip over easily.

    Other than the joy of restoring a vintage bicycle, would someone please explain the widespread love affair with Raleigh 20's? Once they've been brought back to life, do they have a great ride? Again, it doesn't look like the fold is anything to write home about and it looks like a heavy beast to boot.

  16. #16
    Senior Member stevegor's Avatar
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    They are heavy, but you can take a fair bit of weight off with modern wheels and comps..... still not light though.
    My R20 has been through a few modded reincarnations and the ride is surprising good, it's very stable, even when loaded for touring. I find it very responsive and enjoyable to ride. It is nice to ride in original condition too.

    Their quirkiness is the reason for the affair. Weird 26 tpi threading, nylon bush on top head tube, 76 mm BB shell etc make the R20 both frustrating and challenging to restore. There's something nice/strange/obsessive/empathetic about restoring, riding and transforming an "ugly duckling" into a "beautiful swan"........ Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
    Last edited by stevegor; 09-03-10 at 04:29 PM. Reason: Add
    I'm lame,
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    I'm stonkered.

  17. #17
    Senior Member GeorgePaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyFlorida View Post
    8. The shifter is one of those old ones that almost looks like a bell and it's covered in and outside with rust. Cabling seems shot. The chain and hub is very rusty but seems okay. Once I've fix the tires and brakes enough I'll be able to test out the shifter.
    I think you have a Sturmey-Archer 3 speed IGH.

  18. #18
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanis View Post
    That's definitely one of the more awkward folds I've seen--looks like it would tip over easily.

    Other than the joy of restoring a vintage bicycle, would someone please explain the widespread love affair with Raleigh 20's? Once they've been brought back to life, do they have a great ride? Again, it doesn't look like the fold is anything to write home about and it looks like a heavy beast to boot.
    The 20 was designed to be stored a little more compactly than a regular sized bike so if you happened to live in a small flat or apartment it would take up less space... they can be packed into a suitcase although this takes a little more work than something like a Brompton.

    What they do better than most other small wheeled bikes is ride and handle well and there are few bikes that can handle the abuse a 20 can... they are tough little beggars and ideally suited for urban assaults.

    Or touring... with a few modifications.


  19. #19
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanis View Post
    That's definitely one of the more awkward folds I've seen--looks like it would tip over easily.

    Other than the joy of restoring a vintage bicycle, would someone please explain the widespread love affair with Raleigh 20's? Once they've been brought back to life, do they have a great ride? Again, it doesn't look like the fold is anything to write home about and it looks like a heavy beast to boot.
    And they are total babe magnets too...

  20. #20
    Senior Member social suicide's Avatar
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    Quirky things include the handlebar set up. You have to remove the front brake bolt in order to remove the handlebars. That one had me stuck for a couple of hours on my 20.

  21. #21
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanis View Post
    That's definitely one of the more awkward folds I've seen--looks like it would tip over easily.

    Other than the joy of restoring a vintage bicycle, would someone please explain the widespread love affair with Raleigh 20's? Once they've been brought back to life, do they have a great ride? Again, it doesn't look like the fold is anything to write home about and it looks like a heavy beast to boot.
    You have to have one to understand... and once you are bitten one is never enough. I don't know of anybody on here that has had a Twenty for a longer period of time that has just one anymore. I am up to three and still keep an eye out for more.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

    "Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
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    Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
    _krazygluon

  22. #22
    Senior Member stevegor's Avatar
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    Three R20s here too....... but I don't have a problem, really I don't....I don't.
    I'm lame,
    I'm sore,
    I'm stonkered.

  23. #23
    jur
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    I think maybe the attraction of the R20 lies in its reputation as a strong folder of better quality compared to the multitude of U-frame folders that flooded the market at that time. A lone UK product in the midst of a sea of cheap east block products. So although it isn't particularly flash these days, it is a classic. As I once, long long ago in a different galaxy said, the R20 is like a blank canvas on which to paint your masterpiece.
    My folding bike photo essays www.dekter.net/

  24. #24
    Senior Member SunnyFlorida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    And they are total babe magnets too...
    Yep they sure are babe magents. I had to karate chop two or three guys out of my gag dang way to get to it.

    I'm truly infected. I told myself early this morning I wouldn't start fussing with it until I had breakfast. It's past noon and yeah I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

    I know I have to clean it. It needs a good cleaning but of course I'm trying to see if I can take it for a spin even though the brakes are not the greatest. Hell, they are pert near non-existent. So far I've been able to pump the tires up, raise the seat post and coax the brakes enough so I can ride it around the complex without crashing into trees. Gotta see/fee how it feels and whether it shifts.

    However, I need a larger wrench to bring the the handlepost up, which, of course, I don't have. The handlebars seem to be held together by a center bolt which is not a problem, as far as immediate adjustments go.

    I'm getting and I'm just sitting on it for now. The riser handlebars is at a more comfortable reachfor me than my new Dahon Speed D7.

    The fact that the bb is only 10 inches off the ground as opose to 11 inches on my new Dahon, enables me to be at the proper seat height without my feet being totatally off the ground (which is a little unnerving for me).

    Once I'm able to raise the handlepost and angle the handlebars more (btw the grips are shot) then I'll take it for a cautious spin. Don't want to shock it.

    Let you know how it goes and yes, later I'll be posting pics, once I've given her a good scrub.

    harland - Thanks for the link. It gave me some essential specs like the seat post spec, which I will be repacing.

    Aaron - I'll be watching out for that serial #.

    GeorgePaul - Thanks for identfying the hub. I did look it up and yes I came across the Sturmey-Archer catalog online. With any look I can keep the original. Unlikely but hey, I can hope.

    social suicide - I'm already shaking my head trying to figure out how to tighten or lossen the brake levers, if necessary. They seem to be held together by a band but I can't find the bolt that's holding it in place. There's a bolt for the shifter but I can't find the same thing for the brake levers. What the hell????

    stevegor - Have you ever thought that you may be patient zero?

    Urbanis - Speaking on behalf of the newly infected, I can see the appeal. Most of been those hinge type levers, the high handlebars and the familiar shape of the folder that made me want to rescue it from the Center's shed. It definitely wasn't the flat tires, rust and cruddy paint job.

    jur - Yes, it's a blank canvas that you can paint and that someone obviously did with this folder. I mean they even painted the bolts, cables and kick stand. They painted the handlebars and fenders too.

    OK - Off to have breakfast...errr...lunch.

  25. #25
    Senior Member SunnyFlorida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    And they are total babe magnets too...
    Yep they sure are babe magnets. I had to karate chop two or three guys out of my gag dang way to get to it.

    I'm truly infected. I told myself early this morning I wouldn't start fussing with it until I had breakfast. It's past 1 pm here and my hands are covered with old bike grease and rust and yeah I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

    I know I have to clean it. It needs a good scrubbing but of course I'm trying to see if I can take it for a spin even though the brakes are not the greatest. Hell, they are pert near non-existent. So far I've been able to pump the tires up, raise the seat post and coax the brakes enough so I can ride it around the complex without crashing into trees. Gotta know how it feels to ride it besides testing out if it still shifts.

    However, I need a larger wrench to bring the handlepost up, which, of course, I don't have. The handlebars seem to be held together by a center bolt which is not a problem, as far as immediate adjustments go.

    I'm getting quite fond of it already and I can only sit on the duct taped saddle right now.

    The riser handlebars gives me a more comfortable reach than my new Dahon Speed D7. The fact that the R20 bb is only 11 inches off the ground as oppose to 11.5 inches on my new Dahon, enables me to be at the proper seat height without my feet being totally off the ground (which is a little unnerving for me).

    Once I'm able to raise the handlepost and angle the handlebars more (btw the right grip is shot and held together by good ole black duct tape right now) then I'll take it for a cautious spin. Don't want to shock it.

    I'll let everyone know how it goes and yes, later I'll be posting pics, once I've given it a good scrub.

    harland - Thanks for the link. It gave me some essential specs like the seat post spec. More than likely I'll be replacing the seat post with a suspension one besides the saddle.

    BTW, does anyone know the handlebar and handlepost dimensions of the R20 in case I decide to replace them?

    Aaron - I'll be watching out for that serial #.

    GeorgePaul - Thanks for identifying the hub. I did look it up and along the way I came across the Sturmey-Archer online catalog too. With any luck I can keep the original. If not, I'll replace it with another Sturmey-Archer three speed hub (love that cute shifter). I'd like to keep it as original as possible or at the very least - have a good replica of the part.

    social suicide - I'm already shaking my head trying to figure out how to tighten or loosen the brake levers, when necessary. They seem to be held together by a band but I can't find the bolt that's holding it in place. There's a bolt for the shifter but I can't find the same thing for the brake levers. What the hell????

    The front brake lever is secure but the rear one is very loose. Want to tighten it for now for safety reasons. How can I do tha?

    stevegor - Have you ever thought that you may be patient zero?

    Urbanis - Speaking on behalf of the newly infected, I can see the appeal. Must of been that odd type hinge lever, the high handlebars and the familiar shape of the folder that made me want to rescue it from being buried alive in the Center's cluttered shed. It definitely wasn't the flat tires, rust and cruddy paint job that drew me to it.

    jur - Yes, it's a blank canvas that you can paint and that's what someone obviously did with this folder. I mean they even painted the bolts, cables and kick stand. They painted the handlebars and fenders too.

    OK - I'm off to have breakfast...errr...lunch.
    Last edited by SunnyFlorida; 09-04-10 at 03:25 PM.

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