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Rohloff Killer!

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Rohloff Killer!

Old 09-10-10, 09:46 AM
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looks like a motorcycle transmission, in a bicycle frame.

Gears are less efficient, but it might find a market.... cargo bikes for example.
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Old 09-10-10, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by vik
I see so you are suggesting an analysis of the pros/cons of the system relative to other available options is a knee-jerk denigration of the product? Personally I am an early adopter of technology that I think provides a useful function. I bought one of the first generation Tikits. I bought the first generation Hammerschmidt from SRAM. I had a computer at home back when that was crazy talk. You make a good product I can see a rationale for and I'll give you my money to support you and then blog about it so other people get the msg. But, I certainly feel that talking about products that are offered for sale and discussing their merits relative to other options that solve the same or similar problems is not only appropriate, but helpful to the manufacturer. It can guide their product development and let them tune their marketing campaign if certain elements of their design are not being fully understood.
+1 Vik the voice of reason (except on Tikit Vs debates lol! )
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Old 09-10-10, 11:35 AM
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Hey folks, lighten up, no need for a culture war--I think Lou was joking.

I welcome innovation as well--if, for example, a NuVinci-type hub could be developed that was significantly lighter and facilitated rear wheel removal, I'd seriously consider it.
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Old 09-10-10, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Urbanis
Hey folks, lighten up, no need for a culture war--I think Lou was joking.

I welcome innovation as well--if, for example, a NuVinci-type hub could be developed that was significantly lighter and facilitated rear wheel removal, I'd seriously consider it.
Maybe I was too?

Brompton rules OK!
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Old 09-10-10, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Urbanis
Hey folks, lighten up, no need for a culture war--I think Lou was joking.

I welcome innovation as well--if, for example, a NuVinci-type hub could be developed that was significantly lighter and facilitated rear wheel removal, I'd seriously consider it.
+1 Lou offered us a glass of koolaid.

+1 The NuVinci seems very heavy, it would make such a major difference on my bikes I don't seriously consider it.
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Old 09-10-10, 05:15 PM
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That thing looks like it could only kill itself. Bulky, non standard mounting, no real technical specs. Looks more like a gimmick as it is now, then something that can be useful. Also all that marketing talk with overblown words sounds suspicious. Either the product has a balanced, reasonable presentation from it's manufactures, or an overblown marketing stunt. Rarely both, as serious companies rarely use that kind of language when marketing something. They simply don't need to if the product is good.

When I'm picking a bike, I will pick it on a basis of what I need it to do, weight, price, components, etc. Why do they think, that when going for a new bike, I would feel compelled to choose from what is probably a very narrow selection of bikes (if any right now even exist) equipped with their system? Why would I want something proprietary that can't be upgraded as I wish, but instead relies on non standard, hard to obtain, and expensive parts? I simply would not do that. So until they can make it compatible with all, or most of the bikes on the market as No 1 priority, all I can see here is a big fail. And their approach to marketing definitively does NOT inspire confidence.
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Old 09-10-10, 06:19 PM
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just think... current belt drive frames are practically custom made for the belt drive anyways.
now how much more would it be to design a frame around one of these?

One of the really nice features about this device is that it allows a small chainring to be fitted, instead of one that scrapes the ground and that would be good for folders with small wheels.
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Old 09-10-10, 10:30 PM
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Maybe even possible to mount to more normal frames if using the BB as a mounting point and shifting everything forward (not clear what's inside that box). What's cool about this box is getting the weight forward, possibly low, and getting the rotating mass outside of the wheel allowing for cheap/strong (standard) hubs to be used, also tiny chainring is nice.

Many frames that people have out there, especially when produced easterly, are inexpensive relative to the cost of components, probably 1/6 price of total bike investment. So having a "pinion compatible oem" frame isn't a big deal. Many frames are rohloff oem , course that doesnt preclude using other standard components.

Would be curious for real specs/price published.
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Old 09-11-10, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by AEO
One of the really nice features about this device is that it allows a small chainring to be fitted, instead of one that scrapes the ground and that would be good for folders with small wheels.
I will add one to my trails bikes !
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Old 09-11-10, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by JulianEdgar
Why are people so negative? Surely any cycling innovation - or potential innovation - is to be encouraged and welcomed?
Speculating here ... but when the title is "Rohloff Killer" and clearly there are major obstacles left to overcome then I think most of the comments will be negative.
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Old 09-11-10, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by vik
If you really want to point to a Rohloff killer I think the Alfine 11 will be a much bigger threat ...
How much is the Alfine 11? I seem to recall something in the area of $400. But I totally agree with you Vik. A robust hub that is ~ 1/3 -- I believe I'm being conservative here -- the cost but can give a range of 25-100 gear inches is going to hurt Rohloff in many cost/benefit analyses.
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Old 09-11-10, 07:58 AM
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Non-techie here. But am I right in thinking that the pinion is built into the bottom bracket? In that case, one could have a pinion and a Rohloff in the same bicycle right?

Anyway, I was wondering the other day why there weren’t more bottom brackets with internal gears.

Alfine 8 owner.
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Old 09-11-10, 08:21 AM
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Does anyone think the Rolhoff hub is a worthy upgrade over the SRAM dual drive on something premium like the Dahon Jetstream EX?
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Old 09-11-10, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by mulleady
Does anyone think the Rolhoff hub is a worthy upgrade over the SRAM dual drive on something premium like the Dahon Jetstream EX?
Well that's an interesting question...depends on if you need the wide gear range and durability of the Rohloff? I actually prefer the shifting on my Alfine 8 to my Rohloffs....OTOH I know I'll be riding the same Rohloffs until I die, but I'll be buying a new Alfine in a few years. If I was building a touring bike to go to South America I'd buy a Rohloff...if I was building up a folding bike for in town use I'd buy an Alfine since I'm not worried about breakdowns/wearing it out and I don't need an reallly wide gear range.

I don't like the SRAM DD so I wouldn't personally go that route.
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Old 09-11-10, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by invisiblehand
How much is the Alfine 11? I seem to recall something in the area of $400. But I totally agree with you Vik. A robust hub that is ~ 1/3 -- I believe I'm being conservative here -- the cost but can give a range of 25-100 gear inches is going to hurt Rohloff in many cost/benefit analyses.
The price I have is ~$420USD, but you probably need a $50-$75 shifter on top of that so say ~$500.
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Old 09-11-10, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by havm66z
Non-techie here. But am I right in thinking that the pinion is built into the bottom bracket? In that case, one could have a pinion and a Rohloff in the same bicycle right?

Anyway, I was wondering the other day why there weren’t more bottom brackets with internal gears.

Alfine 8 owner.
There is a low end torque input limit on the Rohloff which is the equivalent of a 38T ring when using a 16T cog. So you wouldn't really be able to use the full range of the pinion and the bike would be so heavy, expensive and so much drag from all those planetary gears that I doubt you be able to do anything practical with it.
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Old 09-11-10, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by vik
Well that's an interesting question...depends on if you need the wide gear range and durability of the Rohloff? I actually prefer the shifting on my Alfine 8 to my Rohloffs....OTOH I know I'll be riding the same Rohloffs until I die, but I'll be buying a new Alfine in a few years. If I was building a touring bike to go to South America I'd buy a Rohloff...if I was building up a folding bike for in town use I'd buy an Alfine since I'm not worried about breakdowns/wearing it out and I don't need an reallly wide gear range.

I don't like the SRAM DD so I wouldn't personally go that route.
Interesting you find the Alfine 8 a nice shift as that's what I put on my Brompton. Alfine 11 will be very interesting and I'm sure would hold up to a tour if well serviced. Would love to see Rohloff innovate. Who knows?
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Old 09-11-10, 10:49 AM
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How narrow can you make the locknut stack on an Alfine, to go in a narrow Brompton rear end?
Or did You Have to Pry the rear end Open, too?
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Old 09-11-10, 09:26 PM
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I figured I'd stir something up with my diatribe...lol

We've been traveling back to WA State the last two days, so I have been out of touch with those that commented.

I figured that the "USA Koolaid $.10 a Glass" remark would clue you in that I was just spouting the "patriotic party line".

In truth, we don't have the longest life span, the best health care and we are very FAT. We are NOT the best in the world at everything.

Now all the American "patriots" will be on my case...lol

Back to the discussion of Rohloff hubs/drives.

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Old 09-13-10, 09:48 AM
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I really like my Nexus 8-speed. 3500 miles and no trouble. How would I improve it and it what order?
1) more even steps between the gears
2) make it a little lighter
3) add a couple more gears
4) increase the range a little (I can already ride up the steepest hill in town, how much more range would I need?)

So I am pretty excited about the 11 speed Alfine. I'd like to try a Rohloff but I just can't justify the price.

The Pinion? I was a little disappointed to see it required a special frame. It might be great in a folding bike, though. I'm not going to get too excited until I see some actual numbers.
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Old 09-13-10, 10:48 AM
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I really don't think inventions like the Pinion which requires one to build a frame around it will take off. It requires too much by way of licensing contracts and let's face, the number of people who would actually need and be willing to pay the premium for it are few and far between. This means no economy of scale.

If one can ride around the world with 3 speeds (https://bikechina.com/ct-heinzstucke1z.html), most people would not need the gear range provided by The Pinion.
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Old 09-13-10, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by puppypilgrim
. It requires too much by way of licensing contracts and let's face, the number of people who would actually need and be willing to pay the premium for it are few and far between. This means no economy of scale.
Lets see if Bike friday make a frame for it in the future
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Old 09-14-10, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bhkyte
Lets see if Bike friday make a frame for it in the future
My bet is that will never happen....
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Old 09-14-10, 10:21 AM
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The frame mounted internal gear frames are a small sub section of the Freeride Downhill adrenalin riders ,

expensive tastes and the immortality senses of youth means someone got a big trust fund

from the accumulation of wealth in a prior generation .

so they can go to the Gobi Desert and make some you tube videos.
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Old 09-14-10, 11:48 AM
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you got that right

chuckle

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