Rohloff Killer!
#52
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Koga Miyata has begun offering the Alfine 11 with Signature Series bikes
https://www.koga-signature.com/en/Kog...e-Gearing.aspx.
What concerns me about the Alfine 11 is the low sprocket ratio. Rohloff only allows a sprocket ratio of no lower that 2.35.
https://www.rohloff.de/en/products/sp...ios/index.html
Koga Miyata installs a 42T/16T setup for a healthy ratio of 2.63. Koga Miytat sells bikes with the Alfine 8 at a ratio of 2.21 (42T/19T), which is slightly below what Rohloff would warranty. The Alfine 11 is a whole different story. In order to get the high gear, low gear and close gear range increments of 13%ish (except for the granny which is 29%), the Alfine 11 is set up with a 38T/21T for a low sprocket ratio of 1.80. This means that the torque forces on the Alfine 11 Hub exceed the Rohloff allowable specs by over 30% (2.35/1.80). As the Alfine 11 is brand new and of new design, I have a tough time believing it is going to withstand torque forces that a Rohloff can't.
https://www.koga-signature.com/en/Kog...e-Gearing.aspx.
What concerns me about the Alfine 11 is the low sprocket ratio. Rohloff only allows a sprocket ratio of no lower that 2.35.
https://www.rohloff.de/en/products/sp...ios/index.html
Koga Miyata installs a 42T/16T setup for a healthy ratio of 2.63. Koga Miytat sells bikes with the Alfine 8 at a ratio of 2.21 (42T/19T), which is slightly below what Rohloff would warranty. The Alfine 11 is a whole different story. In order to get the high gear, low gear and close gear range increments of 13%ish (except for the granny which is 29%), the Alfine 11 is set up with a 38T/21T for a low sprocket ratio of 1.80. This means that the torque forces on the Alfine 11 Hub exceed the Rohloff allowable specs by over 30% (2.35/1.80). As the Alfine 11 is brand new and of new design, I have a tough time believing it is going to withstand torque forces that a Rohloff can't.
Last edited by MAMARONECKMARC; 09-17-10 at 08:05 PM.
#54
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The torque problem is reduced on small-wheeled bikes, by the ratio of the respective wheel diameters. So one could safely exceed the Rohloff spec on smaller wheels by said ratio.
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Jur, you mean that normally you would choose a higher gearing for the small wheeled bikes, so one is less likely to create the torque issue? But apples:apples (<2.35 Rohloff) on a small bike of course still presents the torque issue (rohloff specs are independent of wheel size).
ps to others - OEM rohloff model can be had for "as little" as ~ US $850.
ps to others - OEM rohloff model can be had for "as little" as ~ US $850.
Last edited by JimBeans83; 09-18-10 at 02:17 AM.
#56
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No; the torque on the hub exerted by the chain via the rear cog is a function of wheel size: A large wheel, for the same torque at the road surface, has higher torque at the hub, compared to a small wheel. And it is the torque at the road surface which ultimately counts since that produces the force that moves the bike forwards. That's where the apples are still apples.
#57
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The legal input ratio on my Alfine 8 is 2:1 ...I have been running 32T to 21T for a couple years incl all the worst bike missions: technical mountain biking and fully loaded bike touring in the mtns.
So far no issues have cropped up.
My Rohloffs provide such a wide gear range I can't see the need to go lower than 38T to 16T.
So far no issues have cropped up.
My Rohloffs provide such a wide gear range I can't see the need to go lower than 38T to 16T.
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No; the torque on the hub exerted by the chain via the rear cog is a function of wheel size: A large wheel, for the same torque at the road surface, has higher torque at the hub, compared to a small wheel. And it is the torque at the road surface which ultimately counts since that produces the force that moves the bike forwards. That's where the apples are still apples.
This is similar to the high voltage power grid. The limit is on the current (A), not on the power (W), so by using higher voltage (V) you can transfer more power at the same current level.
#59
my nice bike is at home
pinion! those funny Germans with so much time on their hands!
"Red Baiting killed the paid holiday and health care in the States." Too true sad but true..
Only seen one Rolof in my life this pinon thing looks like a rare bird indeed.
"Red Baiting killed the paid holiday and health care in the States." Too true sad but true..
Only seen one Rolof in my life this pinon thing looks like a rare bird indeed.
#60
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It pays no dividends to be negative about innovation.
Anyway, I was wondering the other day why there weren’t more bottom brackets with internal gears.
Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it - most likely in summer school.
#61
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I figured I'd stir something up with my diatribe...lol
We've been traveling back to WA State the last two days, so I have been out of touch with those that commented.
I figured that the "USA Koolaid $.10 a Glass" remark would clue you in that I was just spouting the "patriotic party line".
In truth, we don't have the longest life span, the best health care and we are very FAT. We are NOT the best in the world at everything.
Now all the American "patriots" will be on my case...lol
Back to the discussion of Rohloff hubs/drives.
Lou
We've been traveling back to WA State the last two days, so I have been out of touch with those that commented.
I figured that the "USA Koolaid $.10 a Glass" remark would clue you in that I was just spouting the "patriotic party line".
In truth, we don't have the longest life span, the best health care and we are very FAT. We are NOT the best in the world at everything.
Now all the American "patriots" will be on my case...lol
Back to the discussion of Rohloff hubs/drives.
Lou
#62
Banned
Florian Schlumpf, came out with the 2 speed mountain drive crankset many years ago, may have preceded
Bernard Rohloff's hub .. inspired perhaps the putting the range shift offered,
to move it into the hub. a 7x2 speed .. like 3 3speeds + an MD..
Have the Schlumpf crank on my Brompton + an AW3 so the folding bike with out making anything wider or folding larger
has 6 widely spaced gear-ratios in a row with out overlaps or much difference in the % gap between 3&4.
It's Practical.
Bernard Rohloff's hub .. inspired perhaps the putting the range shift offered,
to move it into the hub. a 7x2 speed .. like 3 3speeds + an MD..
Have the Schlumpf crank on my Brompton + an AW3 so the folding bike with out making anything wider or folding larger
has 6 widely spaced gear-ratios in a row with out overlaps or much difference in the % gap between 3&4.
It's Practical.
Last edited by fietsbob; 10-02-10 at 12:27 PM.
#63
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The real Rohloff killer is Shimano's all new Alfine 11 hub. Priced at under $500, I expect it to be a strong challenger to Rohloff, in that it offers almost as much gearing range at a half the price!
I'm looking into ordering one for my mini Pug.
I'm looking into ordering one for my mini Pug.
#64
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H
#65
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wow .......that was hard to read .... maybe even makes sense ? ........or maybe not ... dunno
back to bicycle stuff... folding stuff to be perfect correct
thor
back to bicycle stuff... folding stuff to be perfect correct
thor
#66
Banned
Awful lot of talk about an 11 speed hub that hasn't been seen but in the Vapor.
[edit] Ok , they're shipping now, some early adopters are reporting problems .
Read of Hub flange problems with Rohloff, but they were in Tandems
on loaded tours to Machu Pichu over Andean Roads.
German factory air freighted spare parts to remote corners of the world, then.
seems hard to get spare Shimano parts in Urban shops,
let alone on the rural Peruvian Andes.
[edit] Ok , they're shipping now, some early adopters are reporting problems .
Read of Hub flange problems with Rohloff, but they were in Tandems
on loaded tours to Machu Pichu over Andean Roads.
German factory air freighted spare parts to remote corners of the world, then.
seems hard to get spare Shimano parts in Urban shops,
let alone on the rural Peruvian Andes.
Last edited by fietsbob; 03-25-11 at 09:49 AM.
#69
Banned
Double reduction gear for 1-7..
2.35:1 is independent of wheelsize. Min per Mfg : "32/13, 38/15, 40/16, 42/17."
I have a 26" wheel Trekking bike 38 :16 ,
taking delivery of a 406 wheel BF , R'off hub.
53:15 gets one down the road with
similar if not higher.. development .. crank rotation for distance traveled.
2.35:1 is independent of wheelsize. Min per Mfg : "32/13, 38/15, 40/16, 42/17."
I have a 26" wheel Trekking bike 38 :16 ,
taking delivery of a 406 wheel BF , R'off hub.
53:15 gets one down the road with
similar if not higher.. development .. crank rotation for distance traveled.
Last edited by fietsbob; 03-25-11 at 09:56 AM.
#70
Senior Member
Americans are better and stronger people because they haven't been made "soft" by too much PAID vacation. In addition, NOT getting health-care for every little medical abnormality, and having a little extra body fat, insures our immunity to many of the diseases that kill-off lesser societies!
........ snip ....
USA Kool Aid: Only $.10 a glass....
........ snip ....
USA Kool Aid: Only $.10 a glass....
The way things are done in the USA just means that it seems to work there. The way it works in another country means that that is the way it works there. Period!
No point in waving the Stars and Stripes in everybody's face as that just causes BAD WILL, after all every nation is full of patriots who are willing to die for their nation - as events in Lybia show
Folks from other nations are reading your views and "perhaps" consider them to be propaganda.
While Kool-aid costs 10 cents per glass in some parts of the USA, where I come from water from the tap is negligible in cost and healthier than any chemical laced drinks. OTOH, I prefer a nice cup of coffee grown in Tanzania, or a cup of Darjeeling tea, or a nice glass of Chateau Neuf de ...
Your first comment in the quote reminds me of the pictures of the USA "fatties" riding the escalator up/down to and from the exercise gym, and of the saying "physician heal thyself". This is just an observation, and no flames will solve any differences of opinion.
#71
Senior Member
About 5 months after your post there are a number of incidents with Alfine-11 failures. No such problems with the Rohloff. You get what you pay for ...
#72
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Oh Tmac100.. just because you dont know about any failures with the rohloff hub there are not without problems completely.
I am not a friend of Shimano ( even knowing one of the owners personnally) but we should all be aware that most of the times the S boys have delivered outstanding quality in their cans.
Again, even born close to the holy grail of rohloff production, we shouldnt generalize from just one opinion here... they have their place, but are not without headaches, and the Shimano 11 will give them a little run for their money.
And in the end of it its all well as a little competition in the high quality can market will benefit all of us ( who like cans )
peace
thor
I am not a friend of Shimano ( even knowing one of the owners personnally) but we should all be aware that most of the times the S boys have delivered outstanding quality in their cans.
Again, even born close to the holy grail of rohloff production, we shouldnt generalize from just one opinion here... they have their place, but are not without headaches, and the Shimano 11 will give them a little run for their money.
And in the end of it its all well as a little competition in the high quality can market will benefit all of us ( who like cans )
peace
thor
#73
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Americans are better and stronger people because they haven't been made "soft" by too much PAID vacation. In addition, NOT getting health-care for every little medical abnormality, and having a little extra body fat, insures our immunity to many of the diseases that kill-off lesser societies!
I'm personally looking forward to a similar product with even more gears (and in more colors) that will be cheaper (because it was made in a place with NO PAID vacation).
USA Kool Aid: Only $.10 a glass.
Lou
I'm personally looking forward to a similar product with even more gears (and in more colors) that will be cheaper (because it was made in a place with NO PAID vacation).
USA Kool Aid: Only $.10 a glass.
Lou
#74
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no kiddin
lets start a discussion about steel versus alloy or derrailleur versus cans .... and than throw in a small portion of child labour, walmart, taco hell fast food , maybe windpower versus nuke... and and and there is no end( and I even havent touched stuff like rep or dem)
:-)
lets just take a little breather and go out and ride our bikes....
although its f.... cold and SNOWING at this time and I am gettin majorly p.... about that ..
Lol
Thor
lets start a discussion about steel versus alloy or derrailleur versus cans .... and than throw in a small portion of child labour, walmart, taco hell fast food , maybe windpower versus nuke... and and and there is no end( and I even havent touched stuff like rep or dem)
:-)
lets just take a little breather and go out and ride our bikes....
although its f.... cold and SNOWING at this time and I am gettin majorly p.... about that ..
Lol
Thor
#75
Banned
Can't fix bridges, or house the homeless, but will send ($1Million$ each)
cruise missiles at the drop of a hat.
cruise missiles at the drop of a hat.