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Help me decide between Swift and Pocket Crusoe!

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Help me decide between Swift and Pocket Crusoe!

Old 10-04-10, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Sir Bikesalot
Thanks for the craigllist heads up. I might give him a call; Fairfax is a bit of a drive though.
I have a Bike Friday Pocket custom (2x8 speeds). If you would like to test ride it to see what the Pocket frame feels like, you are welcome to come to my house in Half Moon Bay. I also happen to have some other folders you can try out. Also have 2 bikes with the S2C hub if you are curious about them.
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Old 10-04-10, 10:58 PM
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Have you consider this

https://www.moultonbicycles.co.uk/models/TSR2.html

Stiff as hell, has the single speed look, great ride quality on both road and unpaved trails (full suspension), no dirty chain to mess with and splits to fit in your trunk.

As for the the BF, another pro is the great service.
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Old 10-05-10, 06:05 AM
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I'm a Crusoe owner so I'll chime in with as objective a post as I can with my likes/dislikes.

PROS:
Fast
Lightweight. I think mine is around 22 pounds with 8X3 gearing (3spd IGH which adds weight).
Good fit: I ordered a custom bike and love the fit.
Solid: I crank at all speeds and the bike "feels" solid--solid construction, not wobbly or creaky.
Standard tires: 406mm easy to find a variety of tires.
Brakes: right from day one, the V-brakes are very responsive. I Like hair-trigger brakes and these fit the bill.
Maintenance: Other than initial gear cable stretch, I have lubed the drivetrain and replaced one set of brake pads, and done nothing else in two years. It's probably time to replace the chain, but my point is the bike is well built in its components.
Customer Service: Bike Friday are awesome.
Rear Rack: the rack is smartly constructed to sit high up, which means you can put a real pannier on it and not have clearance issues. Heel strike also not a problem.


CONS:
chain drops when unfolding bike. Chain retainer (sold separately) doesn't always prevent this.
Fold: The fold is initially very fast (swinging the rear triangle under), but tying down the handlebars (last step) is awkward and I almost always get grease on my hands. I'd upgrade to the folding riser if you buy this bike.
Price: not cheap, as you know.
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Old 10-05-10, 11:33 AM
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I've got a bike friday, and while the frame is stiff as hell, the steering mast is pretty flexy. That makes for a comfy ride on 20" tires, but it doesn't feel stiff.

After a couple folds now, I can get the friday crazy small in about 2-3 minutes- front wheel off, pop the steering mast off, fold the seat mast, fold the rear triangle, done. It doesn't take a lot of room in the trunk. Figure 5-7 minutes from bike to trunk to bike.

I will say that a bottle cage on top of the beam tends to mess everything up. I've since taken it off. I've not had chain dropping problems- so far, it's mostly stayed on, but it can come off.

Mine was cheap- got it used. After selling off the parts I didn't want and supplementing with ebay and my own parts bin, it came out about the same price as a swift.
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Old 10-05-10, 03:26 PM
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I recently purchased a BTO fixed gear Pocket Rocket. It has the pivoting rear dropouts like the Ticket. Very nice setup. Plus, I can simply swap the right dropout for one with a derailleur hanger if I ever want to have multiple gears. Folding & unfolding the bike with the pivoting rear dropouts is easier than with the track dropouts as is fixing a flat, etc. I'm extremely happy with the Bike Friday. I've had a couple of Dahons & I would not recommend them if you want a stiff handle post. However, the Bike Friday's post is very stiff, as is the rest of the frame.

I ordered it from Peter Berra at Bike Friday. He sized it perfectly, the fit is exactly the same as my Surly Cross-Check & Litespeed Classic. I can't speak for the Swift, but I can't imagine not being happy with a Bike Friday.
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Old 10-05-10, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SesameCrunch
This list of priorities says "Swift" to me.

You should start a Poll. List these priorities, list the bike choices and have folks here take a vote. I bet the Swift would win...
There's a little 98 page thread right next door that would tend to agree with you on that one
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Old 10-05-10, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kamtsa
Have you consider this

https://www.moultonbicycles.co.uk/models/TSR2.html

Stiff as hell, has the single speed look, great ride quality on both road and unpaved trails (full suspension), no dirty chain to mess with and splits to fit in your trunk.

As for the the BF, another pro is the great service.
I've considered Moultons, but I'm a little worried about the weight. My impression is that they're on the heavier side.
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Old 10-05-10, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kegoguinness
I'm a Crusoe owner so I'll chime in with as objective a post as I can with my likes/dislikes.

PROS:
Fast
Lightweight. I think mine is around 22 pounds with 8X3 gearing (3spd IGH which adds weight).
This is good to know! That means the Crusoe could get down to 20lbs in SS/FG.
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Old 10-05-10, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Sir Bikesalot
I've considered Moultons, but I'm a little worried about the weight. My impression is that they're on the heavier side.
SesameCrunch offered you a test ride. IIRC he has a Moulton air frame, a belt drive, and a double gear bike, though not in the same bike ;-)

I got my TSR27 after test riding his. My usage pattern is similar to yours, no multi modal commute, the bike is stored most of the time in my trunk and I ride both roads and unpaved trails.

Last edited by kamtsa; 10-05-10 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 10-05-10, 10:37 PM
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I don't have a ton of experience with folders, but the performance of the Fridays really impress me. I'm fairly particular (anal) about how my bikes ride and had dismissed folder for years. I tried a Friday and the rest is history.
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Old 10-06-10, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Sir Bikesalot
This is good to know! That means the Crusoe could get down to 20lbs in SS/FG.
Probably lighter still.. just looked at the Friday site, and ...

General Information
LITE is RIGHT. Ever wanted to ditch the old clunker for something so light, you'd swear your wheels weren't even touching the ground? Enter the new generation "Lite" Friday, the Crusoe - so named to reflect its positioning as the ultimate elite utility bike.

First Class Ride: Robinson never had it this easy: starting at just 16lbs*, the super responsive Crusoe can best be described as "snappy and agile" - like an extension of your hands and feet.
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Old 10-06-10, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BruceMetras
Enter the new generation "Lite" Friday, the Crusoe - so named to reflect its positioning as the ultimate elite utility bike.
So true. As I've posted ad nauseam, my Crusoe is my road bike/touring bike/commuter bike (part-time with a Tikit)/grocery getter/general errand boy bike Myyyyyyyy Presssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhiousssssssssssssss"
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Old 10-06-10, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BruceMetras
Enter the new generation "Lite" Friday, the Crusoe - so named to reflect its positioning as the ultimate elite utility bike.
But it will cost you...
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Old 10-06-10, 10:14 AM
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Pocket Rocket Fixie https://community.bikefriday.com/node/11249
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Old 10-06-10, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Sir Bikesalot
I've considered Moultons, but I'm a little worried about the weight. My impression is that they're on the heavier side.
Gain a better understanding about how bike weight affects performance by reading this:
https://www.smartcycles.com/bike_weight.htm

Weight savings is largely a marketing-driven concept to the consumer. There is far more to gain by losing excess body weight and improving your cardiovascular performance than worrying about extra weight on a bicycle. Tire selection & tire pressure will affect the perceived speed of a bike more than an extra 1.5 lbs shaved off the fork or wheels.

Due to human nature however, we are all susceptible to the belief that spending money on a lighter bike will buy us better performance.
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Old 10-06-10, 11:57 AM
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To me, the issue around bicycle weight is not about "performance" per se but actual portability. There are circumstances in which I regularly need to carry my bike up and down flights of stairs--to get it onto a subway/train platform, or to access the bike path near me, or get it up the steps fronting my apartment building. I also have to lift my bike when I put it in a car trunk. So in these circumstances, yes, a lighter-weight bike can make a lot of difference.
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Old 10-06-10, 04:48 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by SesameCrunch
I have a Bike Friday Pocket custom (2x8 speeds). If you would like to test ride it to see what the Pocket frame feels like, you are welcome to come to my house in Half Moon Bay. I also happen to have some other folders you can try out. Also have 2 bikes with the S2C hub if you are curious about them.
Thanks for the invitation SesameCrunch, I might just take you up on that...if only for an excuse to do some cycling in Half Moon Bay (love that area!). And as kamtsa points out, you also have a Moulton Very tempting of course but possibly more than what I should be getting into for my first folder.

But I have to admit I'm a bit bummed about the fact that the chain tensioner may not work all that well on the Pocket bikes when it comes to keeping the chain on when un/folding.
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Old 10-06-10, 10:58 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Sir Bikesalot
But I have to admit I'm a bit bummed about the fact that the chain tensioner may not work all that well on the Pocket bikes when it comes to keeping the chain on when un/folding.
I think you mean the chain guard. I have one on my BF. It works pretty well. Not 100%, but not a big deal at all. Don't sweat it.
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Old 10-06-10, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Urbanis
To me, the issue around bicycle weight is not about "performance" per se but actual portability. There are circumstances in which I regularly need to carry my bike up and down flights of stairs--to get it onto a subway/train platform, or to access the bike path near me, or get it up the steps fronting my apartment building. I also have to lift my bike when I put it in a car trunk. So in these circumstances, yes, a lighter-weight bike can make a lot of difference.
Exactly! If there's ever a need to make a bike as lightweight as possible, shouldn't it be for a folding bike? Puppypilgrim is right though; it doesn't make too much sense to throw big money in order to shave a gram here or two, but when you're lugging the bike onto and off of a train/bus/subway everyday, the ounces add up! And what about cyclocross, wherein one spends quite a significant portion of a race running while carrying a bike. Let's also not forget the times when it's necessary to lift the bike up in moves such as bunnyhopping--which I plan to do a lot of (hence the requirement for ruggedness).

I don't think I'm asking too much for a 19-20lb folder with SS configuration. I think most non-folding bikes can easily do this without expensive componentry. I simply want a folder that doesn't sacrifice weight for the ability to fold.
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Old 10-07-10, 08:56 AM
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Sir Bikesalot, I think your next step is to go test ride these bikes if at all possible; there's only so much we can tell you in these forums. While I'm a Swift partisan, Bike Fridays have a great reputation and I think it would be hard to go wrong with either bike. Keep us posted!
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Old 10-07-10, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by puppypilgrim
Gain a better understanding about how bike weight affects performance by reading this:
https://www.smartcycles.com/bike_weight.htm

Weight savings is largely a marketing-driven concept to the consumer. There is far more to gain by losing excess body weight and improving your cardiovascular performance than worrying about extra weight on a bicycle. Tire selection & tire pressure will affect the perceived speed of a bike more than an extra 1.5 lbs shaved off the fork or wheels.

Due to human nature however, we are all susceptible to the belief that spending money on a lighter bike will buy us better performance.
Or, you want it lighter to make sure you can get yer bike and suitcase combo under 40 pounds so as not to cost extra on flights...
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Old 10-07-10, 01:27 PM
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Sizing:
After doing some studying of the Swift website, I have come to the conclusion that the Xooter Swift is LESS adjustable and friendly to taller riders than the BF Crusoe or even a BF stock model. The culprit is the one-size-fits-all frame of the Swift. They get their 'size adjustment' in three ways: 1) Raising seat lengthens "reach" (only if handle bars are not also raised), 2) Stem can be replaced with longer or shorter one and with up or down orientation 3) Handle bar riser can be trimmed slightly to shorten it - copy doesn't indicate it can be lengthened!

This the same as me 'remaking' my wife's Medium sized BF to fit me.

https://www.xootr.com/swift-folding-b...-geometry.html

The max seat-to-pedal distance listed is 38" - same as my Dahon S1 and the max "Reach" is listed as 20.1" + 1.5" from changing to a 100mm stem + .5" gained by moving seat back on rails = 22.1". That is basically the reach on my Fridays, but their seat height is 38.5"-39". In addition, based upon these modifications, the seat and handle bars are likely NOT still of equal height as they are on my Fridays.

Conclusion, The tall person (I'm 6'3") has to make a couple of sacrifices.

Folding:
The Swift and the Crusoe fold about the same (both have "floppy" handle bars), but the Crusoe can be equipped with a Folding Stem Riser, such as my wife has on hers, and then the Crusoe folds better. (FYI: Crusoe typically comes with a folding seat mast.)

https://www.xootr.com/swift-folding-instructions.html

Misc:
That said, Swift lacks the low step over of a Friday, but is easier to equip as a Fixie or SS.

Lou

Last edited by Foldable Two; 10-07-10 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 10-15-10, 12:19 PM
  #48  
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Just a quick update: I just ordered the Swift!

I think both bikes would be fantastic for my purposes, but I need to know a little more what I want from a folder (and how best to set it up) before I plunk down the big bucks for the Crusoe. I think the Swift would be a great platform for me to experiment and learn on in the meantime.

Thanks to everyone for your inputs, very helpful as expected. Look for my updates in the "swift folders" megathread
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Old 10-18-10, 11:24 AM
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Great choice! I think you'll love it.
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