jur

Well... two points... grease is typically oil in a "soap" carrier; the carrier ensures it stays put but the penalty is drag; and secondly, the SA grease is actually more like a gel, and is meant to last the life of the hub. Normally there should not be a compelling reason to add oil. It may be necessary to replace the bearing grease which is much more like a normal grease, especially if moisture got in.

Adding a few drops would be the thing to do if the grease is inadequate, but literally only a few drops or it may just run out, as it did with my XRF-8. The oil "seals" are rudimentary. This is the reason I used rope grease in the end, which comes out thin and foaming from an aerosol can, and thickens up to a gel once the solvent is gone.

chagzuki

I don't know what grease is in there, the hub was serviced by one of the few London bike shops that's known for proper Sturmey Archer servicing/repairs. And it's them who's recommending a full servicing every 18 months.

Edit: I'd not realized that SA grease is available, I'd assumed that given the 'greased for life' tag they'd not sell it.

randya

If you can get real SA oil, use it. I've never seen it for sale in the US. 30w is a standard motor oil, and can be used in small gas engines like lawnmowers as well. I think if you use motor oil you probably want a non-detergent oil, but I'm not sure how easy it is to find straight motor oil without all the additives these days.

wahoonc

Shouldn't make a whole lot of difference it all runs out anyway...eventually

I have run every type of oil (except veggie based) known to man through one hub I have, after 30,000+ miles the only thing I did was replace the pawl springs.

I honestly believe that the key to a happy SA hub is: Using it and oiling it. A shot of oil every couple of weeks and riding the hell out of it will keep them rolling for years to come.

Aaron

elcraft

I had heard something about using non oil-soluable grease (perhaps synthetic or lithium?) in the outer bearings of an AW type hub to form a "seal" of sorts to better keep the oil inside the hub. Anyone else heard anything like this? I have acquired a '93 Sprinter Elite Hub- I am wondering if I were to use this approach, I could add an "oiler" fitting to the hub and run it like the notoriously bullet-proof AW's.

wahoonc

I use the old brown soap based grease and it does a tolerable job of keeping the oil in, if you over fill the hub it will self correct by dribbling out.

Aaron

chagzuki

I've just had a 1963 AW hub arrive through the post, I'll have a go at dismantling and servicing it sometime soon. I think I might do well to buy a vice first (the portable type that clamps onto a desk); I don't really have a workshop, just my living room. Which is littered with bike bits and pieces at the moment.

chagzuki

A guy on youtube gives a good demonstration of how to strip and reassemble a 3 speed SA hub and he uses a hammer and punch to loosen the shell, then unscrews with his hands. Is this a reliable method or would I be wise to find a C spanner that fits?

tcs

3rd gear on a Sturmey 5 is "direct", not "neutral".

Yours is an X-RF5, a ball-locking Summit, correct? The power path in direct is from the driver to the driver pawls to the gear ring to the gear ring pawls to the ball ring to the hub shell. Every one of these elements is used in at least two of the other gears. On the other hand, 3rd (direct) does not involve power through the planets, planet cage or planet pawls - these are rotating unloaded in direct drive.

If your 5-spd selects all the gears, doesn't slip in any gear, doesn't slip between gears, doesn't drag on the pedals when freewheeling and shifts reliably, I wouldn't muck with it.

I don't know what kind of grease your IGH shop used upon last service. Sturmey's factory gear grease is part number SA103A, a synthetic NLGI 00 "semi-fluid" grease. It has a very long service life. It's available retail. Millions of Sturmey hubs have given excellent service the world over since Sturmey switched to grease lubrication 21 years ago. Shimano and SRAM also use factory grease lubrication in their IGHs.

General Sturmey tips.
The Summit 5-spd w/ drum brake factory leaflet.

chagzuki

It's an X-RF5. I'm still not really any closer to understanding the mechanisms, I have no idea what a ball-locking summit is.

Yeah, it functions OK in all areas (though 5th gear was never good, extraordinarily inefficient and noisy. When I had it serviced I was given the impression that that was normal, i.e. there was nothing mechanically wrong, you just have to minimize it with very careful cable adjustment. Though I find that to adjust optimally for 5th gear is not optimal for 1st and 2nd and vice-versa. )

chagzuki

I did enquire at sjscycles.co.uk about the proper Sturmey grease. They told me that it's not fluid enough to run under it's own weight. . . I suppose that would have to be the case for it to remain in the hub. I'd imagined that semi-fluid mean't a honey-like consistency but I guess that's the wrong way to look at it, it must be about resistance/density or something like that.

tcs

Production 5-speed hubs from S-A:
S5: 1966-1976 225% overall
S5-1: 1977-1981
S5-2: 1981-1990
5 StAr: 1991-1993 First NIG mechanism
Sprinter: 1993-1999 First single cable design
Summit: 1999-2008 Ball Locking. Last British designed 5-speed
W: 2009- First SunRace designed 5-speed 256% overall

chagzuki

Ball locking it is then, I guess.

chagzuki

An update:
Yesterday I finally ventured into the X-RF5 hub internals. Can't say I fully got my head around the mechanism; there are more springs than in the AW and the driver/clutch aspect is different and struck me as unnecessarily complex.
I inspected the parts and found almost no wear whatsoever. There was zero wear on the pinions, just some marking on the pinion pins where they contact the clutch. The grease seemed fine, still clean and liberally/evenly applied. So at that point I wasn't sure that my intervention would have any effect, but I proceeded to wipe down and apply LOADS of new Sturmey Archer grease anyway. I also applied a thicker lithium grease to the bearings ( I hope this isn't incompatible with the SA grease).
I fiddled for quite a while with cone tightness on both sides of the hub. . . I'm still a bit confused about exactly the effect of having too much tension on one side and too little on the other (as there's scope for the axle to shift somewhat). . . but anyhow, followed the manual advice of finger tight then back off half a turn etc.. Put the wheel back on bike, went through the tedium of readjusting chain tension, gear cable adjustment, brake pad alignment blah blah. Then had a quick ride on the bike: Low and behold the hub feels beautifully smooth. Perhaps it won't stay that way for long as grease migrates (?) but right now the grinding has gone and an extremely annoying rattle has also dissappeared ( see here: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=#post11703025 )

So, for the moment, all is good. I still don't know what was causing that rattle, fingers crossed it won't come back in a hurry.

But the odd thing: the internals seemed well lubed anyway so I don't really see why adding more grease would make much of a difference. . . perhaps both the grinding and the rattle were due to too much or too little tension on the driver side cone.

wahoonc

I believe there is your key. I have only run 3 and 4 speed vintage SA hubs so cannot comment on the new ones. But the cone and tension adjustment can make a huge difference in how well a hub performs. The older 3 speed seem a bit less finicky but once adjusted properly will run beautifully for a long time as long as a bit of oil is kept in them.

I question grease in the hubs, most gear cases I have dealt with in power transmission and industrial applications have all been oil bath.

They do make viscous greases (think cold molasses) Mark from Bikesmith Designs (USA) has the information based on the engineering standard and can recommend a couple of substitute greases.

Aaron