In UK 20" Wheel is not a Folding Bike
strange as it seems but there is a new law in UK wherein the only folding bike they will consider when riding british railways is a 16inch wheel bike. good for brompton's business i may say.
http://atob.org.uk/why_fold.html Free and unrestricted carriage on public transport (but note that as of 2010, this only applies to bikes with wheels smaller than 20-inch on British railways) 'As of 2010, bikes with wheels of 20-inch and above are no longer regarded as folding bikes, no matter how compact or clever the folding package." since when was a folding bike considered a non-folding bike. that's why it folds..duhh... |
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What bikes legal on a particular transit system doesn't affect the definition of folding bike. If you had a 700c bike that folded in two I still say that was a folding bike even if they kicked me off a train.
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Well, if you can stuff it into the space between 2 back to back seats,
it should be fine as a peak hour bring aboard... |
Originally Posted by folderfan550
(Post 11771400)
I wonder what other vendors comply with the 90x70x30cm requirement. Edit: having 15" width, Tikit is out. http://bikefriday.com/faq?question=1696 |
Originally Posted by kamtsa
(Post 11771789)
30cm max folded width is pretty aggressive. Brompton is spec'ed as 27cm (coincident?).
I wonder what other vendors comply with the 90x70x30cm requirement. Edit: having 15" width, Tikit is out. http://bikefriday.com/faq?question=1696 |
Originally Posted by folderfan550
(Post 11771400)
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Originally Posted by vik
(Post 11771474)
What bikes legal on a particular transit system doesn't affect the definition of folding bike. If you had a 700c bike that folded in two I still say that was a folding bike even if they kicked me off a train.
Originally Posted by kamtsa
(Post 11771789)
30cm max folded width is pretty aggressive. Brompton is spec'ed as 27cm (coincident?).
I wonder what other vendors comply with the 90x70x30cm requirement. Edit: having 15" width, Tikit is out. http://bikefriday.com/faq?question=1696
Originally Posted by vmaniqui
(Post 11772859)
that is what i am thinking. probably initiated or sponsored by brompton ? or they just want the people to buy english made brompton bike. certainly- is this pure coincident ?
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Originally Posted by kamtsa
(Post 11771789)
30cm max folded width is pretty aggressive. Brompton is spec'ed as 27cm (coincident?).
I wonder what other vendors comply with the 90x70x30cm requirement. The Mobiky Genius squeaks in, but not the Mobiky MY16. Birdy & Frog are too wide. BigFish is too long. Dahon Curve is too wide. Strida much too tall. |
Originally Posted by folder fanatic
(Post 11774754)
Actually, it is most likely severe crowding on the trains most everywhere is making the companies crack down on large parcels-including bikes of most sizes.
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This is very interesting.
So apart from the Brompton, what else is lees than 30cm/12" wide? I think the Dahon Mu uno is 1cm narrower than the Brompton (but this is relying upon the accuracy/honesty of manufacturers figures). |
Originally Posted by kcorfognik
(Post 11776421)
This is very interesting.
So apart from the Brompton, what else is lees than 30cm/12" wide? I think the Dahon Mu uno is 1cm narrower than the Brompton (but this is relying upon the accuracy/honesty of manufacturers figures). |
I think there must be more than just Brompton.
The Mu Uno is quoted as being 26cm wide (by Dahon). I have an IXFS and according to the D/T website it is 30cm wide so should just scrape in too. |
This feels like a conspiracy that brompton has with the metro to block out all competitors! They know they're almost the smallest fold what easier way to kill off all competition? hahahah! they barely squeak by just to make you think the metro drew up those dimensions from the air. :)
ok i'll remove my tin foil hat now. |
With care I can colapse (my wife's) Dahon Mu P8 to 29.8x65.4x79.5cm.
Kudos to Dahon for an honest 30x66x79cm marketed minimum size for this model. The fold & resultant dimensions would seem to be like the other Mu models, the Ecos, the Speeds, the Vitesse and the several private label machines they build for other companies. So there apparently are quite a number of commonly available, modest cost bikes which will fit into the allowable 30x70x90cm envelope. Conspiracy myth: busted. :) |
Originally Posted by tcs
(Post 11778744)
With care I can colapse (my wife's) Dahon Mu P8 to 29.8x65.4x79.5cm.
Kudos to Dahon for an honest 30x66x79cm marketed minimum size for this model. The fold & resultant dimensions would seem to be like the other Mu models, the Ecos, the Speeds, the Vitesse and the several private label machines they build for other companies. So there apparently are quite a number of commonly available, modest cost bikes which will fit into the allowable 30x70x90cm envelope. Conspiracy myth: busted. :) |
Link in post #2: wheel size restriction was an error. Bikes must fit into 30x70x90cm.
BTW, I measure the overall outside diameter of the inflated stock factory tires on the Dahon P8 @ 19.6 inches...and that's "smaller than 20 inches". |
Originally Posted by tcs
(Post 11776231)
Cycling Plus magazine featured a cycling advocate that had fabricated a full size bicycle cut-out from cardboard. This was apparently perfectly within the rules to board transit with in the UK, since it wasn't an actual bicycle!
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Originally Posted by Azreal911
(Post 11776885)
This feels like a conspiracy that brompton has with the metro to block out all competitors! They know they're almost the smallest fold what easier way to kill off all competition? hahahah! they barely squeak by just to make you think the metro drew up those dimensions from the air. :)
ok i'll remove my tin foil hat now. Brompton Bicycle Ltd, who sponsor the Cycling by Train leaflet, had been horrified on hearing of the problem and also sprang into action to get things put right. ATOC admit that the change was instigated by ATOC, not any bike manufacturer. Tinfoil hat is the right phrase. |
I have owned lots of bikes and tried commuting with them all in the UK. I gave up commuting with my TR because in the end, it was just too big to commute with without being antisocial on jam packed commuter trains. But if not jam-packed, then any folder will do. Look at any commuter station in the south England, and you see lots of folders not just Bromptons.
Not averse to conspiracy theories myself, but the corporates who run the UK government these days are very very big, and a lot of them from outside the UK. So the idea that Brompton would be able to get this kind of influence is pretty laughable. That said, the loyalty to brompton is such is that if there was a brompton owning bureaucrat re-writing the rules it may be that she/he made sure that his/her own bike would be OK still.... that is more plausible imho... |
Mr Conductor, It may look like a bike but it's just two bags of bike parts.
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It was my understanding the trains in the UK are getting too crowded even for folding bikes! Since they are not going to buy new rail cars, the days of bring in a full size folder like the Dahon Espresso (during rush hour) could be over.
I hardly think anyone is going to take a measuring tape to determine if the 20' inch Dahon exceeds the limit. In fact, most people can't even determine the difference between a Dahon and a Brompton! |
Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve
(Post 11783422)
It was my understanding the trains in the UK are getting too crowded even for folding bikes!
I hardly think anyone is going to take a measuring tape to determine if the 20' inch Dahon exceeds the limit. At the airport several of the airlines have a rigid box with a sign: "If it fits in here, you can carry it on. If it doesn't, you have to check it." |
If you need help imagining UK commuter train crowding, try this.
Note that this is a surface rail, the underground is always packed solid. |
It's only when you travel in Europe (Switzerland in particular) that you realise how useless and unfriendly the UK rail system is. Swiss trains are much larger than over here and there are dedicated areas to carry many cycles. Luggage is not a problem and the trains run to time and all interconnect. In the UK the trains are narrow, cramped and there is no room for the average suitcase. As for running to time and interconnecting - don't get me started! We put up with very substandard services in the UK. Compare a Swiss hotel with the equivalent British one and the home grown establishments are over priced and well below the Helvitia mark. We get what we deserve. I try to avoid travelling by train in this country because it is not a nice experience. I get the feeling that the operators would prefer it if they did not have to consider passengers!
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