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Old 11-18-10, 06:01 PM   #1
Riseabovebb
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Bike Friday Travel Tikit vs. Bike Friday Seaons Tikit /w Alfine 11 & Gates belt drive

Hey all,

I'm really looking forward to getting a Bike Friday Tikit. I've had my eye on the Seasons tikit with the nexus 8 IGH. After looking around and hearing about the Shimano Alfine 11, I thought it wise to inquire about a BF Seasons 11 (why buy the 8 when the 11 is around the corner!).

Much to my surprise (well, sort of), Bike Friday is going to 'one up' the current Seasons Tikit by not only adding the Alfine 11 IGH, but also adding the Gates Belt Drive (look ma', no grease!). This would be an absolutely outstanding bike to own. Plenty of gear inches and it's practically maintenance free! An order in the next few weeks would mean delivery around the February/March time frame.

My concern is the price. With the Hyperfold option (which i think should by standard now), the price is almost double that of the current seasons tikit. Now, I'm not totally unreasonable and realize that these new components would increase the price of the bike. Afterall, it's practically cutting edge in the folding market.

I guess where I'm going with this, is: is it more wise to go with a travel tikit (24 speed w/hyper fold) for just under 2K or run with the latest and greatest and go with the Seaons 11 w/ gates belt drive for 3K plus (around $3,300)

I'm seriously struggling. I've never spent more than $900 on a bike. 3K is well outside what I was considering spending, but I'm afraid I'll always regret not getting the Seasons 11 with belt drive.

Help! Which way would you lean?

Matt
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Old 11-18-10, 06:34 PM   #2
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You've mentioned that you're really struggling and have not bought a bike over $900. then that's the answer - get the 24 speed hyperfold. Alfine 11 gear will not gonna make your bike run faster than the 24 speed one. But it will drain your pocket real fast. You will not regret it if you did not get the 11 speed. What ever bike Friday you get it will really make you happy.
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Old 11-18-10, 06:39 PM   #3
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So in reality we're talking about $1,300 difference just to have an alfine11 with belt drive. That's a lot of money. Personally I will just go with 24 speed. I may sound bias as I have it on my TR.
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Old 11-18-10, 07:17 PM   #4
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I have a NWT already with a 3 speed capreo hub and 7 speed cassette. I really like the nwt, but want something thats a quicker fold for commuting and grocery getting. I think the 24 speed travel tikit meets all my needs. I think you guys are right. A travel tikit with hyper fold and folding rear rack will already satisfy my needs and meet or barely exceed my expected budget.

Any other thoughts? The no grease thing is nice, but surely not a necessity...won't miss what I never had..
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Old 11-18-10, 07:28 PM   #5
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Nothing more than a cutting edge or new technology. Serves the same purpose but not getting it will make your pocket happy. I used to have tikit but wanted more speeds so I got myself a speed tr with dual drive and am happy.
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Old 11-18-10, 08:40 PM   #6
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So in reality we're talking about $1,300 difference just to have an alfine11 with belt drive. That's a lot of money. Personally I will just go with 24 speed. I may sound bias as I have it on my TR.
Actually probably more than that is what I am reading from this... Add in the price of alfine 8 from season tikit which is not obviously in the build..... probably $1500 more for alfine 11 with belt drive. Hefty premium on top of premium bike. I probably will pass on this idea... I was actually saving up for it...
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Old 11-18-10, 09:20 PM   #7
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The term for someone willing to pay the price to own the latest technology is: "Early Adopter".

At least it was 10 yrs ago when I retired from the phone business.

How much weight will that 11-speed hub add to the bike, vs. dual drive or a triple chain ring?

Lou
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Old 11-18-10, 10:43 PM   #8
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Frankly I don't see why anyone would ever need so many gears. You can't use gears which drive the bike slower than you can balance (~3 mph) and you can't use gears which drive the bike faster than you can go (35mph if you're the fastest man in the world). The ~300% range of the 8 speed should be plenty IMO.

Also, you don't really need grease on the chain of an IGH bike. Sure it's a bit of a hack compared to a belt drive, but a old fashion greaseless metal "belt" (ie chain) works just as well as a carbon belt.
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Old 11-18-10, 11:09 PM   #9
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I'd have to know what your net worth is before I can give you any advice about which bike makes more sense... :-)
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Old 11-19-10, 12:56 AM   #10
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There is a variety of dropouts that can be fitted on the season's Tikit rear triangle ,
one accepts a derailleur maybe even a dual drive hub,
or a disc brake, another takes an OEM dropout, Rohloff 14 speed IG hub.

if you get that feature, you can change your mind, later.

the carbon Gates drive belt is a big upcharge consider a regular chain.

Last edited by fietsbob; 11-19-10 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 11-19-10, 09:23 AM   #11
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To me after reading your predicament I'd also say stick with the chain drive season tikit. Just to have a few more gears and a belt drive is like the price of ANOTHER really good folder! $1500!?! You can pick up another tikit or brompton for that price! no thanks! and it's a huge premium they are putting on a belt drive considering you can get a pretty good belt folder already in the mid $500's (abio).
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Old 11-19-10, 09:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riseabovebb View Post
Hey all,

I'm really looking forward to getting a Bike Friday Tikit. I've had my eye on the Seasons tikit with the nexus 8 IGH. After looking around and hearing about the Shimano Alfine 11, I thought it wise to inquire about a BF Seasons 11 (why buy the 8 when the 11 is around the corner!).

Much to my surprise (well, sort of), Bike Friday is going to 'one up' the current Seasons Tikit by not only adding the Alfine 11 IGH, but also adding the Gates Belt Drive (look ma', no grease!). This would be an absolutely outstanding bike to own. Plenty of gear inches and it's practically maintenance free! An order in the next few weeks would mean delivery around the February/March time frame.

My concern is the price. With the Hyperfold option (which i think should by standard now), the price is almost double that of the current seasons tikit. Now, I'm not totally unreasonable and realize that these new components would increase the price of the bike. Afterall, it's practically cutting edge in the folding market.

I guess where I'm going with this, is: is it more wise to go with a travel tikit (24 speed w/hyper fold) for just under 2K or run with the latest and greatest and go with the Seaons 11 w/ gates belt drive for 3K plus (around $3,300)

I'm seriously struggling. I've never spent more than $900 on a bike. 3K is well outside what I was considering spending, but I'm afraid I'll always regret not getting the Seasons 11 with belt drive.

Help! Which way would you lean?

Matt
Well Matt. As much as I think the carbon belt thing is cool and I have heard good things about them clearly money is an issue and so I'd suggest sticking with the chain drive that has served us all so well. I'm not a fan of the dual drive so I wouldn't go that route. I'd probably go with the Alfine 11 running a chain. That gives you a big gear range...the lastest IGH tech and all the benefits of a low maintenance/hard to damage IGH drivetrain.



My Tikits and my NWT are 8 spd and I do just fine on them. I just came back from a tour on my NWT and a Nexus 8 did great for me....shifted the same after 100kms of wet muddy trail as it did when minty clean riding the road from my house on km 1. So a standard Season Tikit with 8 spd IGH would be a great bike for you as well.
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Old 11-19-10, 09:46 AM   #13
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I'd have to know what your net worth is before I can give you any advice about which bike makes more sense... :-)
This is my thought.

Given that this is a second folding/travel bike, I am surprised that you would need more than 8 gears.

Long story short, if you get a lot of satisfaction from having the latest and greatest, then by all means have some fun. But it in all likelihood makes little to no difference with respect to how you plan on using the bike.
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Old 11-19-10, 11:47 AM   #14
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Many thanks!

Thanks guys. I appreciate all the feedback you've provided.

I'm going to inquire as to the cost of a Hyperfold Seaons Tikit with the Alfine 11. It's become pretty clear that the belt drive isn't all that important to me.

If the cost of the Seasons/11 is substantially more than the Seasons/8, I'll take Vik's suggestion and run with the Nexus 8. Given what I will probably be using this bike for, 8 gears is probably plenty.

Thanks again -
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Old 11-19-10, 12:50 PM   #15
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A bit late here, but we find that the 8-speeds (on our Bike Friday Pocket 8's) work just fine for all but the most severe hills.

Add for Vik: My wife says both her Fridays would tear into her if she got either of them that dirty!!! :>)
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Old 11-19-10, 02:18 PM   #16
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If you did want a Gates belt drive, Thor built one up on this MuXl with a Nexus 8 speed. http://cgi.ebay.com/Dahon-MU-XL-Spor...item1e5faf475c

Last edited by Dynocoaster; 11-19-10 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 11-19-10, 03:21 PM   #17
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Add for Vik: My wife says both her Fridays would tear into her if she got either of them that dirty!!! :>)
I ***thought*** I was going on a paved tour without rain...as it turned out I was quite wrong!... I cleaned off my NWT right after getting home...seeing her that filthy made me sad...
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Old 11-19-10, 05:12 PM   #18
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I have a Season Tikit with the Alfine 8. I own only one bicycle and it's a great machine for my mix of commuting, long day rides, light touring.

Three things have me considering an upgrade to the Alfine 11:

1. I would like a bit more range at each end -- for loaded climbing and descending
2. If I interpret the gearing correctly, I can get the range and at the same time switch to the smaller Sugino Messenger chainring I've had my eye on (somebody please correct me if I am wrong about this)
3. Easier maintenance promised by oil lubrication

Given all of this if I were the OP I would be waiting for the 11 and happy to pay the modest increment over the 8.
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Old 11-20-10, 05:55 AM   #19
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Gah! That's exactly my dilemma, BWP! Although the price difference wasn't as modest as
I hoped.
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Old 11-20-10, 06:53 AM   #20
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Okay -- maybe I am missing something but I would have expected that the price jump from a complete Alfine 8 build to an Alfine 11 would be about USD200. If I had already swallowed the price of the Alfine 8 versus a derailleur, that would be worth it to me. My interpretation of the thread was that it was the further addition of a belt drive that was putting this into crazy territory.

No matter, good luck making the call. It's a good bike in any variation. Part of the reason for that is that once you have the modular drop-outs you can always revisit choices later.
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Old 11-20-10, 12:13 PM   #21
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The chain stay has to come apart, but since there are the sub assemblies, whole rear sections,
there can always be retrofits.
For belt drive, do Alan & Co. put an S&S coupler in as a tube split?
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Old 11-24-10, 07:18 AM   #22
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I'm going to order the Seasons Tikit with the Alfine 11 (no belt drive) with the Hyperfold mechanism.

While the price difference between the Nexus 8 and Alfine 11 is not as modest as I hoped, I believe the 103%+ gear inches coupled with oil bath/low maintenance is worth the
price difference considering I plan to have this bike for many, many years. Who knows, this bike could even replace my NWT seeing as almost all of my touring experience has not
included air travel (a PCH tour on the NWT being the exclusion).

The only additions I see making to the bike would be a Brooks B-17 (I have a black B-17 w/o a home), BF Folding Rear Rack, MKS EZY quick release pedals and Ergon grips. Any other recommendations from Tikit-owners?

I still have to decide on color. Opinions are welcome!
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Old 11-24-10, 08:46 AM   #23
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I'm going to order the Seasons Tikit with the Alfine 11 (no belt drive) with the Hyperfold mechanism.

While the price difference between the Nexus 8 and Alfine 11 is not as modest as I hoped, I believe the 103%+ gear inches coupled with oil bath/low maintenance is worth the
price difference considering I plan to have this bike for many, many years. Who knows, this bike could even replace my NWT seeing as almost all of my touring experience has not
included air travel (a PCH tour on the NWT being the exclusion).

The only additions I see making to the bike would be a Brooks B-17 (I have a black B-17 w/o a home), BF Folding Rear Rack, MKS EZY quick release pedals and Ergon grips. Any other recommendations from Tikit-owners?

I still have to decide on color. Opinions are welcome!
What is the price difference between 8 and 11? Harris Cyclery prices ... http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/shimano-nexus.html

Have you figured out the gearing? It appears that the smallest sprocket is 16t.
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Old 11-24-10, 10:25 AM   #24
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Invisible - I see the Alfine 11 has 409 GI when paired with the 18t cog. I also read - like you did, that the smallest cog possible is a 16t.

Would changing from an 18t cog to a 16t cog give me less low-end and increase my high end?

I'd rather have more low end available most of the time.
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Old 11-24-10, 11:59 AM   #25
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Invisible - I see the Alfine 11 has 409 GI when paired with the 18t cog. I also read - like you did, that the smallest cog possible is a 16t.

Would changing from an 18t cog to a 16t cog give me less low-end and increase my high end?

I'd rather have more low end available most of the time.
Yep. But with the 349 rear wheel, there is a huge bias towards low gears. That is, you would have to do something pretty strange to not get some really low gears on the tikit. I knew someone who picked up a Rohloff tikit. Most combinations resulted in several gears under 20 gear inches which is a waste, IMO.

Anyway, it would make sense to pay attention to the final gearing. If you're doing loaded touring, one gear around 20" is usually all you need unless there is something extraordinary.
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