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  1. #1
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    Is Dahon Vector a Brompton killer?

    This seem to be the bike Dahon is going to over take Brompton. Bigger wheels, attraction frame, better gearing, etc. Except better fold.

  2. #2
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    alot of folders ride better than a brompton anyways but none can match them in the folding department that's where they will always reign surpreme, all of dahon's folds are bigger cause of the way they are folded.

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    I don't know if the Brompton fold can be beat for the same wheel size. Other than the UFB, I think it rules that category.

  4. #4
    Senior Member badrad's Avatar
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    it not necessary for any make or model to be a killer of another. each make has it's own method of folding and it's own riding style. inevitable there are only so many ways to fold a bike - that will still allow the bike to be decently ride-able - and so each person has to make up their own mind as to what suits their needs the best.

    from a fold and style standpoint, the vector is just a small upgrade from the Mu series, the shape and design has been around for a few years now. and if that hasn't dented brompton's sales back then, no reason to assume it will do so now.

    while i am still a dahon fan (2 jacks, ciao and MuSL, and considering the Hammerhead) those days when the trains are extremely packed - and those days seem ever so more frequent - i have the eyes on the fellow bikers with their bromptons neatly folded and tucked away. but then again, i'm sure the eyes of the full size bikers waiting for the offpeak train are on my dahon fold as well.

  5. #5
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Dahon cannot settle on one design so they have dozens all made in that Low wage, low cost currency, country.

    Mid 80s Dahons were rather klunky, weld quality not great.

    Brompton has evolved their one frame design to be improved over the years,
    and is Made in a High Wage, expensive currency, country.

    Yankees or Red Sox? Green Bay Packers or ...

    FWIW, My Brompton is 15 years old, a Mk 2, T, I got Used,
    It's still OK.

    [+I hate the violent .. killer .. metaphors]
    Last edited by fietsbob; 01-01-11 at 01:28 PM.

  6. #6
    PDR
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    I was riding my 2009 S-type lightweight Brompton across campus this morning and got to thinking.... the bike is 20 months old and has been used most days for work yet it still looks perfect and there are no rattles, squeaks or other annoying noises.... no worn frame hinges or paint chips..... like I experienced with 2 Dahon MU SL's

    Brompton certainly know how to build quality bikes that will outlast a lot of foreign made competition.

  7. #7
    Banned. folder fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDR View Post
    I was riding my 2009 S-type lightweight Brompton across campus this morning and got to thinking.... the bike is 20 months old and has been used most days for work yet it still looks perfect and there are no rattles, squeaks or other annoying noises.... no worn frame hinges or paint chips..... like I experienced with 2 Dahon MU SL's

    Brompton certainly know how to build quality bikes that will outlast a lot of foreign made competition.
    +1. Fiive years old this month and still looks and rides just like it did on the day when I purchased my own basic, no frills model Brompton.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Dahon cannot settle on one design so they have dozens all made in that Low wage, low cost currency, country.

    Brompton has evolved their one frame design to be improved over the years,
    and is Made in a High Wage, expensive currency, country.

    Yankees or Red Sox? Green Bay Packers or ...

    FWIW, My Brompton is 15 years old, a Mk 2, T, I got Used,
    It's still OK.
    why is it so necessary to "settle" on one design? i've heard this argument before and it think it's kinda goofy.

    gm, honda, toyota, nissan, and ford have several car models which are updated, discontinued or created all the time. why? because people have different tastes and needs.

    there isn't one kind of customer you know. and, we don't live in the ussr.

    also, the incessant chatter about dahons being made in china (like most bikes and things you use aren't), really turns me off from bike friday. i once had a rep from bf say that to me over the phone and i thought it was so unprofessional. it was almost like it was code for something.

  9. #9
    Senior Member brommie's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=fietsbob;11937628 Brompton has evolved their one frame design to be improved over the years,
    and is Made in a High Wage, expensive currency, country.
    [/QUOTE]

    My Brompton is 8 years old and still in good shape and gives a nice ride. (But I sure like to ride my Airnimal Joey).
    But the mentioned evolving of the Brompton frame to improved over the years is something I can't agree with. As a matter of fact I think there is very little changed over the years looking at the Brompton frame. But then it was good at the beginning.
    There is also only one frame, so you've got to like it, because that's all there is.
    But brakes, gears and all the other parts they sure need to be updated. Many Brompton owners do, take a look at their bikes, read the messages on the internet. Many of them seem to find real pleasure in finding improvements as I do too.
    "A trip on my Brommie, -or is it the Airnimal Joey?- makes me smile. . ."

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  10. #10
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merry2 View Post

    also, the incessant chatter about dahons being made in china (like most bikes and things you use aren't), really turns me off from bike friday. i once had a rep from bf say that to me over the phone and i thought it was so unprofessional. it was almost like it was code for something.
    That's one of the things I like about Bike Friday. My bike was made nearby by people I can call up and talk to or visit as I have done three times now. Headed down for visit 4 after NYE.

    My GF is getting a custom surfboard made by a guy a short bike ride from our house.

    My next bike is being made by Waterford in the new year.

    I'm getting a custom rack built by CETMA in OR for my tikit.

    My kiteboard kites are designed locally, but built in Thailand.

    If I can support a local company who makes a great product I will. That's not code for anything, but caring about folks in your area who make stuff for you.

    You can't call up the Dahon factory and ask the guy who designed your bike a question or get them to customize your bike for you.
    safe riding - Vik
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by merry2 View Post
    why is it so necessary to "settle" on one design? i've heard this argument before and it think it's kinda goofy.

    gm, honda, toyota, nissan, and ford have several car models which are updated, discontinued or created all the time. why? because people have different tastes and needs.

    there isn't one kind of customer you know. and, we don't live in the ussr.

    also, the incessant chatter about dahons being made in china (like most bikes and things you use aren't), really turns me off from bike friday. i once had a rep from bf say that to me over the phone and i thought it was so unprofessional. it was almost like it was code for something.
    ENOUGH already. Buy what you want. I personally DO NOT want to decide which of 50 different types of soap to buy just so I can wash myself. I just want to wash. Got it?

    The marketeering concept of "choice" is really over rated IMHO

    Let us all go ride our folders, and who cares what make/model it is - we will ALL feel better. I KNOW I will

  12. #12
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vik View Post
    That's one of the things I like about Bike Friday. My bike was made nearby by people I can call up and talk to or visit as I have done three times now. Headed down for visit 4 after NYE.

    My GF is getting a custom surfboard made by a guy a short bike ride from our house.

    My next bike is being made by Waterford in the new year.

    I'm getting a custom rack built by CETMA in OR for my tikit.

    My kiteboard kites are designed locally, but built in Thailand.

    If I can support a local company who makes a great product I will. That's not code for anything, but caring about folks in your area who make stuff for you.

    You can't call up the Dahon factory and ask the guy who designed your bike a question or get them to customize your bike for you
    .
    And most of the time you can't even get parts to repair the durned things made in factories somewhere else.

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  13. #13
    New usename ThorUSA brakemeister's Avatar
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    oh mei ...........
    its christmas guys .... keep the rattle down ...
    this has been discussed before and there are no winners ....


    peace
    thor

    let me just add that Dahon is not out to destroy any of their competitors ...its a 0.9 market share for folders for everyone .... there is a lot of marketshare ready for everybody to bite off from the big bikes ....

  14. #14
    Senior Member Foldable Two's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=brakemeister;

    let me just add that Dahon is not out to destroy any of their competitors ...its a 0.9 market share for folders for everyone .... there is a lot of marketshare ready for everybody to bite off from the big bikes ....[/QUOTE]

    Good point, Thor!!!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by seawater View Post
    This seem to be the bike Dahon is going to over take Brompton. Bigger wheels, attraction frame, better gearing, etc. Except better fold.
    There are many bikes that have been considered Brompton killers over the years offering more gears, lighter weight and higher performance. Dahon had many 16' inch folders that offered more gears and were lighter than the Brompton. However, the Piccolo, Presto, Presto Lite and Curve SL are no longer in production, yet all of these bikes were in direct competition (with better components) but failed to kill the beast!

    There's just something about the Brompton and it's more than the utility value. Since the bike has been around for over 20 years, it developed a following that can't be replaced. The name Brompton means something just like Schwinn did years ago. That something is called Bling.

  16. #16
    Banned. folder fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brakemeister View Post
    let me just add that Dahon is not out to destroy any of their competitors ...its a 0.9 market share for folders for everyone .... there is a lot of marketshare ready for everybody to bite off from the big bikes ....
    I agree on this critical point. Dahon's reason for existence-as all businesses-is to make a profit on it's own version of folding/mini bikes. They do make a very hard-to-beat affordable bikes. I did enjoy both my Dahons while I owned them. When I was ready, I sold one and donated the other to a bike co-op charity that in turn gave it to someone who not only needed a bike badly, but will learn about the joys of folding bikes through that Dahon bike just as I did once. There is plenty of room and time to enjoy all of these bikes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
    There are many bikes that have been considered Brompton killers over the years offering more gears, lighter weight and higher performance. Dahon had many 16' inch folders that offered more gears and were lighter than the Brompton. However, the Piccolo, Presto, Presto Lite and Curve SL are no longer in production, yet all of these bikes were in direct competition (with better components) but failed to kill the beast!

    There's just something about the Brompton and it's more than the utility value. Since the bike has been around for over 20 years, it developed a following that can't be replaced. The name Brompton means something just like Schwinn did years ago. That something is called Bling.
    Not so much as the Bling Factor, but more like old fashioned quality and pride of craftsmanship. The original Schwinn factory was located in Chicago, employed people from the surrounding area, and served mostly a knowledgeable clientele in the US, Canada, and to a lesser extent, other first world countries. When globalization became in vogue, factories closed, production of goods went overseas to mostly the developing countries, and quality control went mostly out the window as Research & Design became separated or alienated from the production floor by thousands of miles or kilometers. I sadly saw that practice accelerate in the fashion industry since the 1980s. I now find that buying most anything that has been imported in countries that practice little or no quality control inspection before shipment is chancy at best. Bromptons are inspected carefully before shipment worldwide. You are paying for that practice that was once taken for granted just as paying extra for a garment that is carefully constructed locally-or at least in a developed country-and carefully inspected before presentation to the client as such.
    Last edited by folder fanatic; 12-27-10 at 09:30 PM.

  17. #17
    Senior Member brommie's Avatar
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    There's just something about the Brompton and it's more than the utility value. Since the bike has been around for over 20 years, it developed a following that can't be replaced.

    I have the impression people at Brompton think so too. But things might change as time flows . . .
    Maybe people at MG thought so too, or Rover or . . .
    I sure hope Brompton will survive as a "local " company where they make there bikes with people you "can talk too". I sure hope the Brompton will stay a standard in quality and within the reach of many (price).
    But I do hope they improve the bike a little faster than up till now. This might be necessary to survive and create a hopeful future.
    Otherwise the Brompton killer might be a Brompton . . .
    "A trip on my Brommie, -or is it the Airnimal Joey?- makes me smile. . ."

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    Quote Originally Posted by brommie View Post
    There's just something about the Brompton and it's more than the utility value. Since the bike has been around for over 20 years, it developed a following that can't be replaced.

    I have the impression people at Brompton think so too. But things might change as time flows . . .
    Maybe people at MG thought so too, or Rover or . . .
    I sure hope Brompton will survive as a "local " company where they make there bikes with people you "can talk too". I sure hope the Brompton will stay a standard in quality and within the reach of many (price).
    But I do hope they improve the bike a little faster than up till now. This might be necessary to survive and create a hopeful future.
    Otherwise the Brompton killer might be a Brompton . . .
    The good news is that the Brompton is protected at least in the UK. We didn't protect our markets and that's why Schwinn is no longer making bikes.

    There are plenty of people like me who find the Brompton just fine and no changes are necessary.

  19. #19
    Hooligan Abneycat's Avatar
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    I think the only thing the Dahon Vector is killing is the Dahon Mu at the high end.

    Personally, I would have been inclined to buy a Brompton instead of a Dahon if it had access to larger winter specific tires - but then it wouldn't be a Brompton anymore, not in spirit with its excellent fold. Basically, Brompton doesn't serve my niche. And for people who love that tiny fold, Dahon doesn't suit theirs.

    I like Thor's sentiment. Folding bicycles have enough room to grow and enough breathing space inside the industry that these manufacturers all filling their niche within the niche works quite well.

  20. #20
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    As consumers, we benefit from variety of selection, whatever the product is. In the miniscule market of folding bikes, we're lucky to have much of any selection. Why would anyone look forward to a brand "killer", particularly one as long-established and respected as Brompton? That does not strike me as advancing our cause. Sure a Brompton has shortcomings, as does Dahon and other alternatives, but they must be doing something that others don't do quite as well or they would be extinct by now. Bottom line: rejoice in choice. We get to decide what the "killer" is for each of us individually.

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    Take the word 'killer' superficially. Its just a marketing jargon. In fact is more a compliment to Brompton that everyone is trying to 'dethrone' the 'king'. Just as everyone is looking to have a iphone 'killer' or Intel 'killer'. On the other hand a product need to 'progress' to stay relevant be it a wheel or gear train. This is an area Brompton is behind and we look forward to some innovations from them.

  22. #22
    It's got electrolytes! chucky's Avatar
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    My question is when is Brompton going to make the Dahon killer? Every time I try a Brompton I'm reminded of why Dahon sells more bikes...because Dahons are just better in terms of striking all the right compromises to suit the needs of most riders.


    Quote Originally Posted by vik View Post
    If I can support a local company who makes a great product I will. That's not code for anything, but caring about folks in your area who make stuff for you.

    You can't call up the Dahon factory and ask the guy who designed your bike a question or get them to customize your bike for you.
    Sometimes it's better not to see how the sausage is made. I've called Bike Friday and it only irritated me to see how little they really understood my needs and how unwilling they were to provide the customizations I wanted. So why pay more for something that only irritates me? Reason says I'd be happier dealing with a company that shut down the phone lines and passed the savings onto the customer and I have been.

    "Local" and "western" made is code for helping people which are "like me" at the expense of people which are "not like me." But not all of us think that's an ideal or even the moral thing to do.

    Besides, when the folks of my area/tribe/nation don't care for me then why should I care for them? Bike Friday does not care for me, but maybe that's because I'm not enough "like them" (as opposed to Vik, for example, who gets treated better because he has some sort of camaraderie with them). merry2 had it right, "it's unprofessional"
    Last edited by chucky; 12-31-10 at 04:47 PM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Lalato's Avatar
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    chucky, I'm really interested to hear what customizations BF couldn't or wouldn't do for you. I think it would be a service to prospective BF customers to know what the limits are.

    As for "killers"... the reason why Brompton hasn't made a Dahon killer has more to do with price point than with anything else. Most folding bike shoppers aren't willing to spend more than $500 on a bike (honestly that number is probably $300). Dahon makes several models in this range. Brompton does not. Brompton does, however, make one of the smallest folding bikes on the market. Dahon does not.

    All I know is... it's Dec 31st, and I'm about to head out for a party. Happy New Year everyone!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lalato View Post
    chucky, I'm really interested to hear what customizations BF couldn't or wouldn't do for you. I think it would be a service to prospective BF customers to know what the limits are.

    As for "killers"... the reason why Brompton hasn't made a Dahon killer has more to do with price point than with anything else. Most folding bike shoppers aren't willing to spend more than $500 on a bike (honestly that number is probably $300). Dahon makes several models in this range. Brompton does not. Brompton does, however, make one of the smallest folding bikes on the market. Dahon does not.

    All I know is... it's Dec 31st, and I'm about to head out for a party. Happy New Year everyone!
    Happy New Year!
    Fully agree. If Brompton is in that price range it will be an instant 'killer'. I own a Dahon and I look forward to have a Brompton. Brompton buyers paying for inefficiency. Is that a fair statement?

  25. #25
    PDR
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    I get the impression that a lot of people who end up buying Dahons didn’t go to a bike store with the intention of buying a Dahon... rather they see one, it looks good and that is what they leave the store with. When I had a Dahon and saw someone else with a Dahon I’d try and acknowledge them but I was always met with a odd look or ignored.... in my experience, Dahon owners don’t seem to want to talk about their bikes...... they are just folding bikes.

    By contrast people who buy Bromptons usually have seen the bikes and know that is what they want to buy. I have found that I can approach anyone with a Brompton and be sure of an enthusiastic response (regardless of whether I have my Brompton with me or not). I’ve never met a miserable Brompton owner or one that was unhappy with their bike.

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