Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Pedaling fool ShinyBiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    My Bikes
    07 Schwinn Voyageur GSD, Next Avalon, 2007 Dahon Yeah
    Posts
    776
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Falling is easier on a folding bike.

    Add the above to the benefits of riding a folding bike. This morning I took a tumble over some black ice. I went around this little puddle, which I could see was glazed at the top. Turns out that the radius of ice surrounding the pond was greater than I thought. I went around it and my Brompton fishtailed from under me. I landed on my hands ok. My only scrape was my back heel, which was probably caught under one of pedals. Did not tear any of my clothing and my gloves didnít even get wet.

    I was not going that fast so that probably helped. Iím thinking that the small dimensions of my bike allowed me to straddle over it enough to land on my hands. Also, the small wheels probably keep you closer to the ground. I keep thinking that if I was on my full size bike, it would have been a bad fall. I think I could have ended up on my side with a bruised shoulder or maybe even a broken collarbone.

    Anyway, Iím glad Iím ok and will give such puddles plenty of clearance in the future. Be safe out there.

  2. #2
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW,Oregon Coast
    My Bikes
    7
    Posts
    38,912
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I took a sideways slip crossing the trolley tracks at to low an angle, in a downpour.
    didn't go down, any more than a dab to catch myself, but the fast reaction sprained something,

    as it took fortnight or so, for the soreness to go away ..
    a 60 year old doesn't recover like a 25 year old.

  3. #3
    Senior Member SunnyFlorida's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Eating oranges of course!
    My Bikes
    Sun Miami Trike - 2007
    Posts
    563
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Trying to find the thread where the poor biker got some pretty substantial injuries while riding his folder home. I'm pretty sure he would disagree about it being "easier" to fall off a folder as oppose to a regular bike.

    Whether or not it is any easier I think depends more on the speed, your seat height and general structure of the bike. I've personally found that it's easier to step clear off a low-step bike before you go down with the ship, so to speak, as oppose to a bike (folder or not) that's not a low-step.

    Regardless, no matter what. it hurts!!!!!

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    55
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Been riding my folder for a couple months now and have fallen off it twice:

    Once during a group ride when the bike hit a large bump on the road and my handlebars went sideways, throwing me off the bike (I was tired and wasn't holding the handlebars very tightly). It happened really fast, but the guy riding behind me said I went over the handlebars and landed on my feet (also landed on my hand and got a bruise, but nothing broken). Surprisingly, the bike wasn't damaged at all. Lesson of the day: hold on tightly to the handlebars of your "twitchy handling" bike when going over bumps.

    Another time was when I made a turn on a leaf-covered sidewalk (i know) after a storm and the bike skidded away from me due to the lack of traction. Luckily, I realized I was going to lose control of the bike and jumped off before it crashed. Lesson of the day: wet leaves are slippery!

    I've been considering clipless pedals, but every time I think of these crashes.. man, I think I would've been doomed (or at least a lot more injured) if I was clipped in.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,406
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by lighto View Post
    I've been considering clipless pedals, but every time I think of these crashes.. man, I think I would've been doomed (or at least a lot more injured) if I was clipped in.
    Very interesting, the conclusions we reach after various and sundry experiences on the road.[FWIW] the worst fall I have ever had as a cyclist was on my folder. This August I went over a storm drain which trapped the 20" wheels and caused me to go down on my left side. My cell phone (destroyed) did a lot of damage to my left thigh muscle and I have a four inch raised scar on my left arm by the elbow that is still not fully healed. Interestingly enough, more recently I was riding in the bike lane in lowish light and drizzle and hit a small object in the road at about 15mph. It launched the front end and the handlebars went sideways and I saw an exact repeat of Augusts fall taking place in that place your mind flees to when the fan gets hit. Somehow I hung on and we stayed upright and I didn't even need a change of underwear, win-win.

    Lastly though: I have upgraded my footwear on the bike(s) to mid-level Shimano mountain clipless shoes. I don't run full clipless but I do have Powergrip straps on most of the bikes except the two folders. The folding pedals don't allow the attachment of the Powergrips. I am sold on being "attached" if not "clipped in" and I can't advocate making any sweeping statements about the good fortune not to be clipped in because of any accidents I have had. Being attached to the pedals in some form or fashion is a good thing. Period. Systems to afix feet to bicycle pedals have existed since... ... a really long time. In fact, I just bought a pair of inexpensive cage pedals to replace the folding pedals of my 1/2way so I can put Powergrips on it. I never actually fold my pedals up anyway. Does anyone? [/FWIW]

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    San Rafael, California
    Posts
    1,485
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post

    Lastly though: I have upgraded my footwear on the bike(s) to mid-level Shimano mountain clipless shoes. I don't run full clipless but I do have Powergrip straps on most of the bikes except the two folders. The folding pedals don't allow the attachment of the Powergrips. I am sold on being "attached" if not "clipped in" and I can't advocate making any sweeping statements about the good fortune not to be clipped in because of any accidents I have had. Being attached to the pedals in some form or fashion is a good thing. Period. Systems to afix feet to bicycle pedals have existed since... ... a really long time. In fact, I just bought a pair of inexpensive cage pedals to replace the folding pedals of my 1/2way so I can put Powergrips on it. I never actually fold my pedals up anyway. Does anyone? [/FWIW]

    I fold my pedals all the time, but that's because my bikes end up in small car trunks and other tight spaces .. I also have used Power Grips for years.. I've installed them on a few folding pedals, but it is not straight forward.

    My 2 speed MU Uno





    My Birdy


  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,406
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sweet

  8. #8
    Senior Member lucille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,685
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's all a personal preference. The Power Grips, straps and cages scare the crap out of me, but I ride clipless all the time both on the folder and full sized bike. It only takes a slight twist of a foot to get out of clipless pedals, I feel I would never be able to get out of the straps on time.

  9. #9
    It's got electrolytes! chucky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    My Bikes
    Self-designed carbon fiber highracer, BikesDirect Kilo WT5, Pacific Cycles Carryme, Dahon Boardwalk with custom Sturmey Archer wheelset
    Posts
    1,394
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyFlorida View Post
    Trying to find the thread where the poor biker got some pretty substantial injuries while riding his folder home. I'm pretty sure he would disagree about it being "easier" to fall off a folder as oppose to a regular bike.

    Whether or not it is any easier I think depends more on the speed, your seat height and general structure of the bike. I've personally found that it's easier to step clear off a low-step bike before you go down with the ship, so to speak, as oppose to a bike (folder or not) that's not a low-step.

    Regardless, no matter what. it hurts!!!!!
    +1 Low step bikes (as most folders are) are much better for avoiding injury when you lose control.

    Just the other day I slipped off the pedals and ended up holding the handlebars with both feet sliding (I couldn't let go of the handlebar to grab the brake without falling). If I had a top tube I would have been hurt badly, but in this case all I lost was shoe leather.

    Quote Originally Posted by lucille View Post
    It's all a personal preference. The Power Grips, straps and cages scare the crap out of me, but I ride clipless all the time both on the folder and full sized bike. It only takes a slight twist of a foot to get out of clipless pedals, I feel I would never be able to get out of the straps on time.
    Yeah I can't see the advantage of straps. Even cleats are a hassle for split second reactions to traffic signals, so straps must be horrible.

    I will admit that foot retention is probably safer, but I find being stuck with a single foot position a major hinderance for speed and comfort. For example, I prefer pedaling more towards my heals for a more closed position when riding out of saddle (in addition to some foot relief). So even cleats with "float" aren't any good because the float is in the wrong direction.

    Two sided cleated pedals are nice, but for a folder I prefer the quicker reaction afforded by indiscriminately jumping on the pedals and mashing when the light turns green. Besides, no one makes two sided pedals that fold/detach which is an essential feature IMO.
    Last edited by chucky; 02-11-11 at 05:01 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,406
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by chucky View Post
    Yeah I can't see the advantage of straps. Even cleats are a hassle for split second reactions to traffic signals, so straps must be horrible.

    I will admit that foot retention is probably safer, but I find being stuck with a single foot position a major hinderance for speed and comfort. For example, I prefer pedaling more towards my heals for a more closed position when riding out of saddle (in addition to some foot relief). So even cleats with "float" aren't any good because the float is in the wrong direction.
    These two paragraphs make me smile. Do you see the irony? Straps and cages? No. No modern cyclist should be using straps and cages in traffic. PowerGrips use an entirely different principle. You really should check them out. Lucille as well. At least she uses cleats. I would too and probably will but for now PowerGrips are more affordable. You are not stuck with a single foot position with PowerGrips or SPD or Look cleats for that matter. True, your fore/aft position is more or less pre-determined but that is actually a good thing. That you do not find it so does not make it any less so. Being attached via 'cleats' is not neccessarily 'safer'. IMO safest is probably unattached. Efficiency is why we use cleats. If you do the cost/benefit to how many million pedal strokes are improved by virtue of attachment vs. the possible detriment of an occasional ruined dismount the overall iterative trend is towards an attachment strategy. YMMV.

    H

  11. #11
    Senior Member lucille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,685
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I clip in and unclip all the time during a ride. Always release one foot when I'm coming to intersection, see a dog or child on bike path etc, anything I can see ahead that may cause me to have to stop quickly. I'm so used to doing it, that don't even think about it anymore.
    I have never tried PowerGrips, but I'm happy with my pedals, so will probably stick with them.

    Last time I rented a bike while I was away, I hated not being able to clip in. It felt like I lost that extra kick you get from pulling on the pedals.

  12. #12
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,276
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    There are very few instances where a folding bike would really be better in a crash or a fall.

    The only thing I can think of is that most folders don't have a top tube. As a result, you're a little less likely to get tangled up in the bike in a crash or fall.

    However, folding bikes also seem a little more likely to fall in the first place. Tighter turning circle = more responsive handling = less stable = slightly more likely to crash/fall. Similarly, with the smaller wheels you can't ride over the same sized curbs, potholes or other obstacles as a 26" or 700c bike.

    One fall doth not a fact make. Glad to hear you're OK, but sorry to see you've drawn the wrong conclusion from it.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Foldable Two's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Vancouver, Washington and Ocean Shores, Washington, USA
    My Bikes
    2 - 2007 Custom Bike Fridays, 2 - 2009 Bike Friday Pocket 8's, Gravity 29'er SS, 2 - 8-spd Windsor City Bikes, 1973 Raleigh 20
    Posts
    1,306
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wife and I rode 'The Worst Day of the Year' ride here in Portland yesterday. 4,000 riders this year, mostly on the 18 mile 'urban' course. It was fairly crowded for so few riders (The annual Bridge Pedal gets 20,000 riders), and the course was city streets that had not been closed for the event, so we had t stop at numerous traffic signals and busy stop-sign-controlled intersections. As we came to a stop (and started up gain) we could hear a multitude of "clicks" around us.

    Our Bike Friday Pocket 8's were great, as usual. Good acceleration after those stops, and we were easily passing numerous other (likely younger - we're late 60's) riders on the few uphill portions. (The two guys on their Cervelos - and other hardcore roadies - did blow by us...lol)

    We found our plastic type BMX pedals to be good for this type of ride - our feet don't slip and we can react quickly to the problems encountered in these rides, especially at the start when it's really crowded. We can also wear 'normal' shoes when ridding.

    FYI: I used toe clips in my early teens on the road racer my uncle handed-down to me, and I liked them then.

    Lou
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Foldable Two; 02-14-11 at 02:29 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Russcoles11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    My Bikes
    Royal Enfield Revelation, Dawes Kingpin
    Posts
    329
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    At the beginning of the cold spell, I took a tumble. I saw ice on a slope ahead of me and braked. Black ice must have extended further cos I just slid down the slope on my side. I would have been fine except for the bollard coming towards my head. I messed up my hand deflecting it and smashed my helmet up. I switched to off road tyres after that and in the snow had no problem (except a near miss with a sledge).

  15. #15
    jur
    jur is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    6,109
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    One fall doth not a fact make. Glad to hear you're OK, but sorry to see you've drawn the wrong conclusion from it.
    Good old Bacci - always ready to inject some sense back into these koolaid-drunk foldie riders.

  16. #16
    It's got electrolytes! chucky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    My Bikes
    Self-designed carbon fiber highracer, BikesDirect Kilo WT5, Pacific Cycles Carryme, Dahon Boardwalk with custom Sturmey Archer wheelset
    Posts
    1,394
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
    These two paragraphs make me smile. Do you see the irony? Straps and cages? No. No modern cyclist should be using straps and cages in traffic. PowerGrips use an entirely different principle. You really should check them out. Lucille as well. At least she uses cleats. I would too and probably will but for now PowerGrips are more affordable. You are not stuck with a single foot position with PowerGrips or SPD or Look cleats for that matter. True, your fore/aft position is more or less pre-determined but that is actually a good thing. That you do not find it so does not make it any less so. Being attached via 'cleats' is not neccessarily 'safer'. IMO safest is probably unattached. Efficiency is why we use cleats. If you do the cost/benefit to how many million pedal strokes are improved by virtue of attachment vs. the possible detriment of an occasional ruined dismount the overall iterative trend is towards an attachment strategy. YMMV.
    I see the irony in that some cyclists think being clipped in improves efficiency despite it being contrary to scientific fact. I use cleats, just not for efficiency. I use cleats because it's nice to be lazy and let my legs go limp once I'm knackered, but with a folder I can just catch the train/bus. However you ARE stuck with a single foot position with SPDs and the fact that I find that disadvantageous does, in fact, make it a bad thing (after all, what kind of idiot would say it's "a good thing" after finding it disadvantageous?).

    I might try Powergrips because they appear to offer some fore/aft "float", but I think the slowness of getting in compared to cleats will ruin them for me.

    Being attached is safer because it maintains a position where you can control the bike and prevents your body from being able to strike certain parts of your bike. But if you do the cost/benefit to how many million pedal strokes are improved by virtue of unattachment AND the sure detriment of frequently ruined mounts/dismounts the overall iterative trend is towards an unattachment strategy. Your mileage obviously DOES vary.

    Quote Originally Posted by lucille View Post
    I clip in and unclip all the time during a ride. Always release one foot when I'm coming to intersection, see a dog or child on bike path etc, anything I can see ahead that may cause me to have to stop quickly. I'm so used to doing it, that don't even think about it anymore.
    I guess that works on the bike path. But when you're flanked by cars 2 feet on either side of you 90% of the time, there's ALWAYS something ahead that may cause you to have to stop quickly.

    I don't have to think about unclipping anymore either, but that's not enough when I need to be unclipped yesterday...especially when I also need my feet back on the pedals 5 minutes ago. With platforms I can touch the ground, put my foot back on the pedal (in an optimized position), and start hammering all quicker than the time it takes to do an automatic unclip with muscle memory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    There are very few instances where a folding bike would really be better in a crash or a fall.

    The only thing I can think of is that most folders don't have a top tube. As a result, you're a little less likely to get tangled up in the bike in a crash or fall.

    However, folding bikes also seem a little more likely to fall in the first place. Tighter turning circle = more responsive handling = less stable = slightly more likely to crash/fall. Similarly, with the smaller wheels you can't ride over the same sized curbs, potholes or other obstacles as a 26" or 700c bike.

    One fall doth not a fact make. Glad to hear you're OK, but sorry to see you've drawn the wrong conclusion from it.
    This is nonsense. The lack of a top tube is precisely what makes a folder safer in almost all instances and the truth is there are very few instances where a large wheeled bike would really be better in a crash or a fall. Also if you think you have toe overlap with your large wheeled bike now just wait until you fall.

    The only thing I can think of that might make a larger wheel safer is that it may roll over obstacles a little easier, but that doesn't seem to stop the BMXers from riding over park benches and other obstacles beyond most people's riding skills.

    Also handing has nothing to do with wheel size, but rather frame geometry. For example, the handling of my 20" bike is less responsive than my large wheeled bike because it has more trail.

    What a bunch of hooey. One fall doth not a fact make, but logic does despite your convenient neglect of it.
    Last edited by chucky; 02-16-11 at 12:34 PM.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    433
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BruceMetras View Post
    I also have used Power Grips for years..
    I have just fitted those to a set of removable caged Wellgo's

    I was initially unsure about them but have to say so far I like how it makes you feel more connected to the bike.

    I was also worried about what would happen if I got "stuck" in them, however at the weekend when out riding at one point I started to topple side ways when I stopped on an uneven incline and found that my foot easily slipped out to regain my balance. I guess there would be a point though when you got so far over that it would be too late to get your foot out to put it down

    Regards

    Jerry

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    My Bikes
    Brompton, Dahon Vitesse D5
    Posts
    1,791
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've fallen off my Dahon three times and I've found the low top tube/main tube thing to make the experience almost pleasurable, i.e. me and the bike part company neatly and thus far I've not really sustained any injury.

  19. #19
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,276
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by chucky View Post
    This is nonsense. The lack of a top tube is precisely what makes a folder safer in almost all instances and the truth is there are very few instances where a large wheeled bike would really be better in a crash or a fall.
    First, please re-read my post. I explicitly said that the lack of a top tube can be safer in some cases, because you won't get tangled up in the bike.


    Quote Originally Posted by chucky
    The only thing I can think of that might make a larger wheel safer is that it may roll over obstacles a little easier, but that doesn't seem to stop the BMXers from riding over park benches and other obstacles beyond most people's riding skills.
    True, but BMX'es have a completely different geometry than folding bikes, and usually have much wider tires. They are specifically designed for that kind of riding.

    The 20" folding bikes without top tubes and with very long handleposts, on the other hand, would in most cases lose control or crumple if you attempted to use it like a BMX.


    Quote Originally Posted by chucky
    Also handing has nothing to do with wheel size, but rather frame geometry. For example, the handling of my 20" bike is less responsive than my large wheeled bike because it has more trail.
    Actually both contribute. However I have never ridden a 700c bike that is anywhere near as responsive as a 20" bike, and that includes racing bikes like the Specialized Tarmac. (The only exception is a 20" bike loaded with luggage, but that's not a fair comparison.)

    Maybe -- maybe -- a 700c track bike has twitchier handling than an unloaded 20" folder made for touring. I.e. if you go to the absolute extremes, that claim might be true. Even then I have serious doubts on that score.

    Keep in mind that "responsiveness" is not a bad thing; in fact it's part of what makes a 20" wheeled bike fun. And to be clear, I would never suggest that 20" wheeled bikes are "unsafe" on this basis. Only that I see no reason why you are less likely to tip over when riding one compared to a 26" or 700c bike, and that a single anecdote stands as proof.

    20" bikes are not superior to 700c across the board -- or vice versa. Both types have their pros and cons. Pretending otherwise helps no one.

  20. #20
    Senior Member lucille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,685
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by chucky View Post
    I guess that works on the bike path. But when you're flanked by cars 2 feet on either side of you 90% of the time, there's ALWAYS something ahead that may cause you to have to stop quickly.
    I ride the same way on the road. Ride clipped in and unclip before intersections.

    How are you flanked by cars on either side? Aren't you riding on the side of the road?

    The pedal discussion makes no sense. Everybody has their preference and will ride the way they like.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •