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  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    got it. thanks. apparently, mconlonx had one of the "pre-production models" which is a completely different bike:




    and then there is the windsor, which looks to be what became the nano.

    Well I guess if you want a 451 mini velo of this style there is always the one guy still selling the soma on ebay by the time you built up the wheels and bought the nano you would probably come out about even with that cost anyway.

  2. #602
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    Scratch that it's still more $800 + shipping

  3. #603
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thugpipe View Post
    Well I guess if you want a 451 mini velo of this style there is always the one guy still selling the soma on ebay by the time you built up the wheels and bought the nano you would probably come out about even with that cost anyway.
    no, i just became curious about the history of the nano when i saw that pic of the prototype version. also, if you'll recall, i was basically shouted off this thread a few months back when i suggested the soma was a much better value purchase than the nano (when it was selling for 5-600). looks like there are only a couple remaining now.


  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    no, i just became curious about the history of the nano when i saw that pic of the prototype version. also, if you'll recall, i was basically shouted off this thread a few months back when i suggested the soma was a much better value purchase than the nano (when it was selling for 5-600). looks like there are only a couple remaining now.

    I do recall that discussion but this is a very different problem, the last discussion was of value and the superiority of one over the other this is a matter of one bike fitting a particular criteria that the other is ill suited to or unable to accommodate. I will say what I said then each bike has its place and each has its own strengths/weaknesses. Personally I prefer 406 wheels

  5. #605
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thugpipe View Post
    I do recall that discussion but this is a very different problem, the last discussion was of value and the superiority of one over the other this is a matter of one bike fitting a particular criteria that the other is ill suited to or unable to accommodate. I will say what I said then each bike has its place and each has its own strengths/weaknesses. Personally I prefer 406 wheels
    i agree.

    personally, i would prefer a bike that can run both 406 and 451 wheelsets.

    anyway, the primary failing (for me) of both the soma and especially the nano, is the too short wheelbase.


  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    i agree.

    personally, i would prefer a bike that can run both 406 and 451 wheelsets.

    anyway, the primary failing (for me) of both the soma and especially the nano, is the too short wheelbase.

    Couldn't agree more, both my bully and my silvertip have nearly 4" (90mm) longer wheel bases than either the soma or the nano . Actually the bully is closer to what you are asking for: longer wheelbase at 1028mm, clearance for 451 or 406 wheels, disc brakes to accomidate 451s or 406 equally and easily interchangeable, and a chrome moly frame (I assume).

  7. #607
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    User @bigbenaugust was selling a Shetland awhile back, which he may still have, and may be able to say if it runs 451s.
    Chaad--'95 DeKerf Team SL, '02 Lemond Buenos Aires, '05 Novara Buzz, '73 Schwinn Collegiate, '06 Mountain Cycle Rumble, '09 Dahon Mariner D7, '12 Mercier Nano, '12 Breezer Venturi

  8. #608
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    here's a quick doodle of what i would like a mini velo to be.


  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    here's a quick doodle of what i would like a mini velo to be.

    Looks quite a bit like the frame I was planning on making, with the addition of post mounts for disc brakes although the chain stays look very long. What are you basing the geometry on?

  10. #610
    derailleurs are overrated bigbenaugust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
    User @bigbenaugust was selling a Shetland awhile back, which he may still have, and may be able to say if it runs 451s.
    Yes, the Shetlands were pre-production and completely different (451 v. 406 wheels being the biggie, aluminum frames being another difference). I have been slowly parting out my Shetland as a) the frame is a little crooked and b) I have had no takes. I will still happily sell you what's left and parts to finish it up.
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  11. #611
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    Smallwheeler,

    Have you checked out the biria mini 20? That has 451 wheels and it looks like a long wheelbase with longer chain stays more like your image. I keep meaning to test ride one over at HUB in the west villiage.

  12. #612
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    Here's my mini-velo. When I bought my Loopwheels last year I looked all over for a suitable mini-velo frame to put them on. Preferred something like a Cannondale Hooligan. I wanted a bike with regular MTB-type ergonomics, not something that felt like a mini-bike, but kept running into problems with BB height. This bike(Pure Fix Chief) solved my problems. It's a fixed-gear freestyle bike, with an elevated BB. I used a generic 29r fork from Nashbar and didn't even have to change crankarms(175). The Chief is around $400 and built like a tank, and has 120mm rear spacing for SS or IGH. I think a hot set-up would be one of the auto 2sp wheels from Respect Cycles($150 w/coaster brake) and maybe a long 20" tire suspension fork. I'm really happy with the results; it's roomy like a "regular" bike(I'm 5'10") and I can easily rotate the BMX-type handlebars for a different feel.

  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    here's a quick doodle of what i would like a mini velo to be.

    Looks like a Progressive:

    Chaad--'95 DeKerf Team SL, '02 Lemond Buenos Aires, '05 Novara Buzz, '73 Schwinn Collegiate, '06 Mountain Cycle Rumble, '09 Dahon Mariner D7, '12 Mercier Nano, '12 Breezer Venturi

  14. #614
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thugpipe View Post
    Looks quite a bit like the frame I was planning on making, with the addition of post mounts for disc brakes although the chain stays look very long. What are you basing the geometry on?
    i'm envisioning a bike that is essentially a dual purpose city bike with an aggressive headtube angle and shallow fork rake for responsive handling in traffic and rapidly shifting pathways. this bike would also have a long wheelbase for stability, comfort and improved handling.
    this is my first attempt at this, so if i am way off base in understanding the principles here, please correct me.

  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    i'm envisioning a bike that is essentially a dual purpose city bike with an aggressive headtube angle and shallow fork rake for responsive handling in traffic and rapidly shifting pathways. this bike would also have a long wheelbase for stability, comfort and improved handling.
    this is my first attempt at this, so if i am way off base in understanding the principles here, please correct me.
    Well exact same wheelbase as my bully. You must be much taller than me based on your seat height but you are going to be positioned way forward and much higher I'd be very careful under heavy braking, I already have to slide back past the seat regularly to counter balance. My bike has a very aggressive stance and is great in tight traffic but I have 5 shallower head tube(72), never ridden any bike with as steep of a steerer as you show, I have no idea if its a good thing or a bad one. My silvertip has 1 steeper steerer (73) and I am very slightly forward in comparison to the bully and it does not feel as stable at speed with little aid to low speed maneuvering but that could be any number of things.
    Did you shift everything forward just change the weight distribution for your rear rack?
    I have always wanted to mock up an adjustable test frame to try some things out. If you end up building it Id love to see it in person you are roughly in my neighborhood.

  16. #616
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thugpipe View Post
    Well exact same wheelbase as my bully. You must be much taller than me based on your seat height but you are going to be positioned way forward and much higher I'd be very careful under heavy braking, I already have to slide back past the seat regularly to counter balance. My bike has a very aggressive stance and is great in tight traffic but I have 5 shallower head tube(72), never ridden any bike with as steep of a steerer as you show, I have no idea if its a good thing or a bad one. My silvertip has 1 steeper steerer (73) and I am very slightly forward in comparison to the bully and it does not feel as stable at speed with little aid to low speed maneuvering but that could be any number of things.
    Did you shift everything forward just change the weight distribution for your rear rack?
    I have always wanted to mock up an adjustable test frame to try some things out. If you end up building it Id love to see it in person you are roughly in my neighborhood.
    yep. the seatpost is 10cm too high. as i said, this is a doodle. i did it very quickly as an ideation exercise. the basic concept is what i was going for. however, i agree with what you say re: the headtube angle. what i was attempting was a combination of the maneuverability and handling of a polo bike with the stability and comfort of, say, a moulton.

    i think it's an optical illusion that everything looks shifted forward.

    i'm definitely going to commission a bike build. of course, there will be a lot of refinement prior to.

    actually, i have several virtual bikes that have been kicking around in my head for awhile. i suppose i should commit to one concept and develop it to completion...

    after putting a few thousand miles on a brompton and recently having the opportunity to ride a bridgestone moulton, it's pretty much confirmed for me that sir alex and mr. ritchie were definitely on to something. i really love this wheel size. consequently, i also have a few ideas for 349 builds..


  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    yep. the seatpost is 10cm too high. as i said, this is a doodle. i did it very quickly as an ideation exercise. the basic concept is what i was going for. however, i agree with what you say re: the headtube angle. what i was attempting was a combination of the maneuverability and handling of a polo bike with the stability and comfort of, say, a moulton.

    i think it's an optical illusion that everything looks shifted forward.
    so you are much closer to my height than I thought.

    I was basing the observation about the riding position being shifted forward, purely on the numbers, in comparison to my bike the seat and the BB are pushed 3" forward and the bars are 2" further from the seat (5" forward of mine) and I take a pretty aggressive riding position. I realize it is just a rough just though I would contribute my 2 cents

    I want to attempt a custom frame myself, so far I have a set of surly dropouts and a set of handle bars.... someday I will get there.

    I have never even seen a moulton in person but man I want one, right up there with the tyrell CX

  18. #618
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thugpipe View Post
    so you are much closer to my height than I thought.

    I was basing the observation about the riding position being shifted forward, purely on the numbers, in comparison to my bike the seat and the BB are pushed 3" forward and the bars are 2" further from the seat (5" forward of mine) and I take a pretty aggressive riding position. I realize it is just a rough just though I would contribute my 2 cents

    I want to attempt a custom frame myself, so far I have a set of surly dropouts and a set of handle bars.... someday I will get there.

    I have never even seen a moulton in person but man I want one, right up there with the tyrell CX
    thanks, man. i appreciate your input. we should probably return this thread to its regularly scheduled programming, though. maybe i will start another thread about mini design or just pm you if you're interested.


  19. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    thanks, man. i appreciate your input. we should probably return this thread to its regularly scheduled programming, though. maybe i will start another thread about mini design or just pm you if you're interested.

    Point taken, we have drifted a bit far.

    Feel free to contact me and as always I would look forward to any thread you start. Thanks for keeping it interesting up in here

  20. #620
    Senior Member atombikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thugpipe View Post
    Point taken, we have drifted a bit far.

    Feel free to contact me and as always I would look forward to any thread you start. Thanks for keeping it interesting up in here
    You guys should please start a new thread on minivelo design for homebuilders. I would be very interested. While I have not done any layouts of a minivelo (yet), I did do this concept about 5 years ago based on a bmx frame. Now that I have been riding a folder for the summer I realize the merits of small wheels and am interested in reviving my minivelo project.

    Cheap BMX minivelo

    Last edited by atombikes; 08-12-14 at 07:13 AM.
    atombikes

  21. #621
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    Progressive have slacker HT on SS/FG

    Chaad--'95 DeKerf Team SL, '02 Lemond Buenos Aires, '05 Novara Buzz, '73 Schwinn Collegiate, '06 Mountain Cycle Rumble, '09 Dahon Mariner D7, '12 Mercier Nano, '12 Breezer Venturi

  22. #622
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    Nevermind Progressive; I used to see them available on Rakuten, but now cannot find anywhere.
    Chaad--'95 DeKerf Team SL, '02 Lemond Buenos Aires, '05 Novara Buzz, '73 Schwinn Collegiate, '06 Mountain Cycle Rumble, '09 Dahon Mariner D7, '12 Mercier Nano, '12 Breezer Venturi

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