Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Folding Bikes Discuss the unique features and issues of folding bikes. Also a great place to learn what folding bike will work best for your needs.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-03-11, 04:18 AM   #1
DrBanner
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Oslo, Norway
Bikes:
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Need help choosing gearing for Tikit

Hi
I have decided to order a Tikit from Bike Friday, but I can't decide what gearing I should choose. I was hoping some input from members here to make the decision easier.

First, I am not too keen on the Capreo system, since the cassettes are hard to find and expensive compared to standard cassettes.

Second, I am not too keen on internal-gear hubs either.
Heavier, more resistance, expensive, and how do you repair it if it breaks?
I have a Rohloff on my Mtb, which is great and practically bombproof, but the Rohloff is really in a class of its own. I can't afford one on the Tikit though.

The first option i was considering was equipping the Tikit with a 60t chainring and a standard 11-34 cassette (apparantly that can be done). With 40-349 tires (Scorchers) that would give me a range of 29.8 - 92.1 gear inches. Pretty good, but perhaps a bit short on the high end? (That's the heavy gears right? I always get those mixed up.)

The second option I was considering was an Sram Dual-Drive and maybe a 56t chainring. From what i can read, the DD is a pretty simple and proven design.
That would give me 20.4 - 117 gear inches. Perfect, but heavier and more expensive.
Plus the hassle of maintenance on both a derailleur and gear hub system. Probably more drag than the other option? And that clickbox looks pretty vulnerable.

So I really can't decide.
Anyone have any experience with either option?
I will be using the Tikit for short commuting, and training when I'm on vacation.
No hauling of heavy luggage and that sort of thing.
Well at least not for the time being.

.
DrBanner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-11, 06:47 AM   #2
kegoguinness
These go to eleven
 
kegoguinness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Distrito de Columbia
Bikes: BF Pocket Crusoe; B Tikit; dust-gathering MTB
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I bought a used stock 8-speed (cassette) Tikit. Unfortunately I don't have the gear inches info for you, but I can tell you that it's fine on the low end (good hill climbing gears) but tops out/needs more big gear inches at the top end. On a 12 mile r/t commute that has hills, I ride from 3rd gear up to 8th gear. On the downhills, I'm in 7th or 8th, and if the hills were bigger or longer, I'd want more gear on top. Your gear inches above at 92.1 is not that high, and you'd spin out on medium downhills. I think a bottom end around 28 or so is fine for all but killer uphills, so if I were you, I'd try and get more at the top end.

I can speak to the DD as I have that on my Pocket Crusoe, and love it. The shift of the 3-spd internal is flawless. I've not done a thing to it in over 2 years. I've got a 46T chainring up front, and an 8-spd 11-32 cassette out back. That gives me all the range I need on both ends. Obviously these are 406 wheels and not 349, so the correlation is not precise, but maybe give you an idea. Congrats on the Tikit purchase. I absolutely love mine and cannot imagine city living without it.
kegoguinness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-11, 08:07 AM   #3
BruceMetras
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Rafael, California
Bikes:
Posts: 1,872
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
A nice option, and one that I provided to a good friend who had a Tikit, is a Schlumpf Speed Drive 2 speed crank.. you could run a conventional tighter 9spd cluster in the rear (I like 11 -28 ) a short cage rear derailleur for extra ground clearance and a more normal sized chain ring.. with a 46t 11-28 on 349 wheels, you would get around 27 to 116 gear inches ..

I have a couple of Speed Drives on the shelf at good price.. PM me if interested..
BruceMetras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-11, 08:18 AM   #4
vik 
cyclopath
 
vik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Victoria, BC
Bikes: Surly Krampus, Surly Straggler, Pivot Mach 6, Bike Friday Tikit, Bike Friday Tandem, Santa Cruz Nomad
Posts: 5,265
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have the stock 8 spd cassette on my Tikit and after wearing out the first one I just got another. It gives me a low enough gear to get up the climbs and by the time I spin out I'm going as fast as I want to on that bike. My NWT uses a Nexus 8 IGH and I find that fine as well. I coast on really steep hills so I don't need a big gear for that. My limit is how fast I can spin vs. how fast I want to ride on the flats.

I guess the question is how fast do you want to ride on the flats and how fast can you spin?
__________________
safe riding - Vik
VikApproved
vik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-11, 10:15 AM   #5
SesameCrunch
Eschew Obfuscation
 
SesameCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes: 2005 Fuji Professional, 2002 Lemond Zurich, Folders - Strida, Merc, Dahon, Downtube, Recumbent folder
Posts: 3,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceMetras View Post
A nice option, and one that I provided to a good friend who had a Tikit, is a Schlumpf Speed Drive 2 speed crank.. you could run a conventional tighter 9spd cluster in the rear (I like 11 -28 ) a short cage rear derailleur for extra ground clearance and a more normal sized chain ring.. with a 46t 11-28 on 349 wheels, you would get around 27 to 116 gear inches ..

I have a couple of Speed Drives on the shelf at good price.. PM me if interested..
I was the lucky recipient. This was a great solution for the Tikit. The gear range was enough to make anyone happy!

__________________
SesameCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-11, 10:50 AM   #6
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 19,595
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 429 Post(s)
I'd get the Season's Tikit rear dropout option in any case,
so changes after the fact, are just a parts swap, of the rear pieces.

Sturmey Archer 8 speeds appear fine for small wheel bikes, 1st is 1:1,
all the others are overdrive , so monster chainrings not needed..

SRAM picked up on the speed drive idea, IGC for mountain bikes,
but, its cable/lever on bars operated.

Another option: Capreo, freehub/cassette 9 - 26 tooth, for minivelos and folders.

on small wheel bikes, anything but a short cage RD ,
results in the chain passing rather close to the ground, where the dirt is.

I have the mountain drive crank on my Brompton,
works as if a 50-20 double crankset. [54+ 21.6t]
AW3 hub used twice, low in high is followed by high in low range.

Rohloff is an internalized version, a 7 speed, used twice..
mountain drive effect as part of the hub.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-11, 12:41 PM   #7
daveF
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 738
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What Vik said! I've had a stock Model-T Tikit for a few weeks now with 52 tooth chainring & 11-28 cassette. I would like a bit more on top end, but it's not bad. For commuting it works well, and I'm not going easy on my 15 mile commute. If the 60 tooth chainring will work on the Tikit & if you are good at spinning, then that should be a great setup.

I ran into someone with a Capreo hub a couple of weeks ago & he really likes it. Although cassettes are more expensive, he's had great results with his. He sold me on it. If I need a new rear wheel in the future for my Tikit, or whenever I order another Bike Friday in the future (which I will be definitely be doing), it will have a Capreo hub.
daveF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-11, 12:45 PM   #8
feijai
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Bikes:
Posts: 904
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBanner View Post
Hi
The first option i was considering was equipping the Tikit with a 60t chainring and a standard 11-34 cassette (apparantly that can be done). With 40-349 tires (Scorchers) that would give me a range of 29.8 - 92.1 gear inches. Pretty good, but perhaps a bit short on the high end? (That's the heavy gears right? I always get those mixed up.)
See this page for various options. If you went this route, I wouldn't do an 11-34: the jumps are too big, and you probably don't need that low of a gearing, AND I dunno if it'd be wise given the size of the rear wheel. I'd stick with 11-32, which works great and will give you a 31.7 to 92.1. 92.1 is plenty fast for me -- it gets me up to about 20+ MPH, but it's maybe not enough for the more athletic.

You will also need: (1) a new rear derailleur (I got a SRAM X7 Medium-Cage, though probably a Small Cage will work) and (2) a new shifter (I got a SRAM X7 twist shifter, very nice) and (3) a chainring guard or else be prepared for quite a lot of chain drops because a nine-speed chain is thinner and more flexible.

I got a Vuelta 60T from Greenspeed and they're ugly as sin. But work well -- no chain drops. More importantly, when I shifted and the chain vibration hit the guard it made a "bing" sound each time. This I fixed by buying a package of little adhesive vinyl bumper feet and adding them to the guard so that they pressed against the chainring when the two were installed on the bike. Also if you put the chainring on the outside of the crank, the chain is more in-line (reduces drops) and also it's FAR easier to reinstate the chain after a drop. To do this you'll need some spacers and replacement chainring bolts to put the guard further out still, both trivially obtainable at any bike shop.

I am spooked about Capreo: Shimano's not supporting it well and BF has to negotiate with them to even get it. Once you're doing Capreo you're locked into it unless you want to rebuild your wheel again.

The DualDrive is fragile but I like it and think you should consider it.

Last edited by feijai; 06-03-11 at 12:53 PM.
feijai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-11, 12:58 PM   #9
invisiblehand
Part-time epistemologist
 
invisiblehand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Bikes: Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
Posts: 5,566
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBanner View Post
First, I am not too keen on the Capreo system, since the cassettes are hard to find and expensive compared to standard cassettes.
Definitely expensive, but really not that hard to find, IME. The Harris Cyclery almost always seems to have them. And besides the typical US sources like Bike Friday that typically have a reserve in stock, there are a few places in Europe where you could order one if you're desperate. Moreover, you should get a decent amount of mileage out of a well maintained cassette/chain.
__________________
A narrative on bicycle driving.
invisiblehand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-11, 01:56 PM   #10
SesameCrunch
Eschew Obfuscation
 
SesameCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes: 2005 Fuji Professional, 2002 Lemond Zurich, Folders - Strida, Merc, Dahon, Downtube, Recumbent folder
Posts: 3,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm usually a Capreo fan. I have it on my Moulton TSR. But I like the Capreo with double chainrings up front. Otherwise, it's less than 300% gear range. For real sporty riding, it's not enough for my tastes.
__________________
SesameCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-11, 03:23 AM   #11
DrBanner
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Oslo, Norway
Bikes:
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks guys.
Nice to get some input to help with the decision.
Though I think I am leaning towards the Dual Drive at the moment, or perhaps the derailleur only option.
I think I will discuss this with Bike Friday to see what each option will cost before I make the decision.
There are some pretty steep and long hills here where I live, so perhaps it would be nice to have some extra at the low end also, which the
DD will give me. I will be using the Tikit most for transportation, and it's nice to not get to sweaty if I'm going somewhere in normal clothes.

The Schlumpf loooks pretty nice, but a bit more expensive than the DD I think?

Last edited by DrBanner; 06-04-11 at 04:09 AM.
DrBanner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-11, 11:42 AM   #12
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 19,595
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 429 Post(s)
You may do better in the NK to Euro currency exchange,
they sell in U$D at just shy of $700.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-11, 08:09 PM   #13
alhedges
Senior Member
 
alhedges's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Naptown
Bikes: NWT 24sp DD; Brompton M6R
Posts: 1,133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have a DD on my NWT for the last three years and I've been extremely happy with it. I was concerned that it would be fragile as well, but I have had no issues with it for either daily commuting or even on multi-day bike camping trips. I did buy a spare clickbox and pin from BF just in case; they only cost $15 and are very lightweight. I would advise doing this if you are concerned.
alhedges is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-11, 01:57 AM   #14
DrBanner
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Oslo, Norway
Bikes:
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A few of question regarding the Schlumpf speed drive:

Will I be able to shift if I am using toeclips and straps?
And can you use any kind of chainring with it, or does it use some kind of proprietary chain ring.
I can only find them with a maximum chainring of 40t, which may be a bit small for the Tikit.

How does it feel? Any kind of extra drag with the speed drive engaged?
DrBanner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-11, 11:07 AM   #15
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 19,595
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 429 Post(s)
Quote:
Will I be able to shift if I am using toeclips and straps?
your heel passes by the cap over the center of the crank arm thru every power stroke
you shift by tapping that button, located there.
they have an aluminum piece, held down by where the pedal threads in
that increases the target area..
it pushes the button when you tap on it in any part of the pedal stroke.

Quote:
And can you use any kind of chainring with it, or does it use some kind of proprietary chain ring.
I can only find them with a maximum chainring of 40t, which may be a bit small for the Tikit.
the 110 bolt circle of the spider is standard, but to clear the gear housing a little metal is shaved off.
you can do that with a file.

Quote:
How does it feel? Any kind of extra drag with the speed drive engaged?
Chainring turns faster than the crank arms,
The air resistance as a result of going faster will be more of an issue.

Last edited by fietsbob; 06-07-11 at 11:19 AM.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-11, 11:15 AM   #16
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 19,595
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 429 Post(s)
http://www.schlumpf.ch/hp/sd/sd_engl.htm, note in Installation,
NB; some frame prep is required.
chamfering the edge of the BB shell to get the torque transfer grip.

The torque of over drive is less strong, than the reduction gear torque.
because you are already moving, and not lifting the weight, I guess.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-11, 03:41 PM   #17
invisiblehand
Part-time epistemologist
 
invisiblehand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Bikes: Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit
Posts: 5,566
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SesameCrunch View Post
But I like the Capreo with double chainrings up front. Otherwise, it's less than 300% gear range. For real sporty riding, it's not enough for my tastes.
I concur. The big reason to use Capreo is if you want crisp STI/Ergo/Whatever-SRAM-calls-it shifting for the front derailer. You can modify a Capreo cassette like any other 9-speed Shimano cassette; although (as you already know) the first four cogs are fixed. The ICE-B1 -- the 20" folding version -- came with a 9-32. The Capreo hub is just a standard cup and cone hub that will last a long time with regular maintenance. But I would go with a big chainring if choosing a single chainring unless you want a gear higher than 100".
__________________
A narrative on bicycle driving.
invisiblehand is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:25 AM.