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Old 06-27-11, 11:22 PM   #1
nish2575
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dream folder - fast seperable, fold down

i'd like to see something like a moulton tsr8 but made to be separated on a frequently (daily) basis. and where each half of the bike folded down further, quickly (< 30 secs). the half with the front wheel folded down, would be small enough to strap to the back of a backpack. the other half maybe the size of a folded brompton (half the width) to be carried in one arm.

as a smaller guy, i just don't think there will ever be a folded bike that will be pleasant to carry/lift long distances. carrying an 11-14lb piece would be much more manageable.

plus having two pieces gives you a litle more flexibility when trying to fit in a cramped space. often, be able to pull out a few pieces of the swift have allowed me to fit it into trunks it might not have fit in.

does this sound appealing to anyone else?
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Old 06-28-11, 02:28 AM   #2
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More appealing if the back half rolled easily.

While we are at it, it would even better if it came with a bike mounted luggage system that converted to a front half carrying backpack.

Even more lovely would be the option to fold or separate. I'd settle for longer separation time (say two minutes) if folding were also an option.

Separable with a 2 speed kick shift coaster brake should be doable with a quick separation time.
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Old 06-28-11, 04:41 AM   #3
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A bike that splits in two works well for packing, but would be a nightmare for other folding uses. I can't imagine how you'd navigate turnstiles with a split bike.

An 11-15 pound folding bike would of course be great, but is probably impossible given the requirements and current available materials. Or if you could do it, it would be insanely expensive, to the point where you'd never want to take it anywhere that an ultralight folder would actually be useful (like a subway or bus).

Engineering is about compromises, not daydreams....
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Old 06-28-11, 05:22 AM   #4
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I don't think you read carefully.

One half of the bike should weight 11-15 pounds (that doesn't require any fancy materials)

One half strapped to a backpack and rolling the other half wouldn't be any harder to navigate than a Swift + bag.

Innovation starts with daydreams and ends with engineering.
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Old 06-28-11, 08:07 AM   #5
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Consider a Unicycle? Swiss machinist Florian Schlumpf,
has made a 2 speed Uni hub,
2nd gear is 1.5x overdrive, for faster over the road speeds.
as if both a 24" and 36" wheel. or 20",and, 30"
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Old 06-28-11, 08:10 AM   #6
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Okay, so...how would one build a quick-release for the Swift's pivot point? :-)

Add cable splitters for the rear cables.

The seatpost reinserted into the rear would probably roll just fine (at an angle) if there were no rear fender. It'd be nice to come up with a rolling solution that worked with fenders, though.
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Old 06-28-11, 09:20 AM   #7
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for the swift, i'd rather have the seperation near the front end of the main tube, as carrying the rear wheel and along with chain on a backpack would be much more complicated than a front wheel. from the moulton picture below, the front wheel seems totally doable on the back of a backpack.

the backpack that attaches to frame i assuemd (:, i already ride with a klickfix freepack, was planning on strapping it to back of that backpack, when detached.



@ben, the moulton tsr2 is exactly that kickshift, no cables thing. glance at it, if you donj't already know about it.
Attached Images
File Type: gif NSDP-separated.gif (37.0 KB, 12 views)
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Old 06-28-11, 09:44 AM   #8
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hehe

That's what I was thinking of when I wrote it. The new autoshifting (I forget who's releasing it) 2 speed is another option.

In any case, I'd think that you definitely need to eliminate rear cabling for this to be remotely feasible.

A QR should be possible on the Swift. Shear strength seems to be the major concern at the pivot.

(I should mention at this point that I have no idea what I am talking about )
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Old 06-28-11, 11:02 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nish2575 View Post

does this sound appealing to anyone else?
So appealing! You just described my

iF Reach

Folds in 3seconds
Rolls using its own wheels
Breaks in half if needed
full suspension
0 compromise in geometry
long distance friendly
Short distance friendly
Very very fast

In action: http://www.vimeo.com/24222512



Juan
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Old 06-29-11, 12:02 AM   #10
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i don't undestand the "breaks in a half if needed"?

this did lead me to read up on the pacific reach and IF reach. the older reach seems closer to my ideal. though i didn't want to detach the front wheel, more the front portion of the bike like the moulton.

i couln't find a picture of the IF reach separated.
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Old 06-29-11, 05:56 AM   #11
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I have my TSR2 set up so I can ride to work, dismantle it and carry the parts into my office. Although most days I continue to use my Brompton the TSR2 does work and in many ways is lighter to carry, the weight being split between two parts. The belt of course keeps it all clean. The slighlty larger 20" wheels and being suspended both ends makes it more comfortable than the Brompton to ride. The Brompton is stil king for portability and enables me to stop in town on the way home popping in and out of shops with ease.



I use a rucksack luggage solution to keep both hands free to carry the frame parts.

Since this picture I have fitted Kojaks which make it a little lighter and rolls much better.


Regards

Jerry

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Old 06-30-11, 09:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nish2575 View Post
i don't undestand the "breaks in a half if needed"?

this did lead me to read up on the pacific reach and IF reach. the older reach seems closer to my ideal. though i didn't want to detach the front wheel, more the front portion of the bike like the moulton.

i couln't find a picture of the IF reach separated.
I mean if you undo 3 bolts and use cable spliters it can be dived it 2,this allen bolts can be changed for knobs BUT..

The reason why you dont see any pics is because the fold is already very small already and since it rolls when folded you dont have to carry it..

You mean the Reach Racing? they both have the same geometry, the iF frame is about 500g heavier, about the 20lbs/9.5kg mark.

They both can be folded/detach to this size: (which is smaller than the Birdy,also made by Pacific)




Juan
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Old 07-04-11, 10:37 AM   #13
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I have my TSR2 set up so I can ride to work, dismantle it and carry the parts into my office.

...

I use a rucksack luggage solution to keep both hands free to carry the frame parts.

Regards

Jerry
whenever you get a chance, i'm curious about your rucksack setup. maybe you can take a photo of it?

i thought my next bike would be a bike friday pocket companion or new world tourist highly customized, but i'm leaning more towards a bike where front wheel removal or frame separation are part of the intended fold. i really like the idea of putting the front part of bike/wheel in a bag, strapping onto my backpack and carrying the rest. i might consider 24" wheels, but for not mostly 20"

when i emailed moulton, they told me it wasn't made for frequent separation, any ideas why?

...oh and i'm anti-rolling. its either slower than normal walking speed, or a little awkward for your arm to support keeping level. beyond that, i don't like walking around rolling a folded bike, just feels uncomfortable in public, all the stares.
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Old 07-04-11, 11:05 AM   #14
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FWIW, Bike Friday's Tikit, is made to quickly fold, via
hinges for the steering and seat masts.
and when folded the front wheel extends in such a way
as It is used to roll along on it.

Same wheel/rim as Brompton, A high pressure 349 size..

Lots more component options , derailleurs or IG hubs, and belt drive..
3 sizes/top tube lengths.
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Old 08-03-11, 02:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrysimon View Post
I have my TSR2 set up so I can ride to work, dismantle it and carry the parts into my office. Although most days I continue to use my Brompton the TSR2 does work and in many ways is lighter to carry, the weight being split between two parts. The belt of course keeps it all clean. The slighlty larger 20" wheels and being suspended both ends makes it more comfortable than the Brompton to ride. The Brompton is stil king for portability and enables me to stop in town on the way home popping in and out of shops with ease.



I use a rucksack luggage solution to keep both hands free to carry the frame parts.

Since this picture I have fitted Kojaks which make it a little lighter and rolls much better.


Regards

Jerry
Hi Jerry,

Just noticed this picture of your TSR2 on the forum and wondered what make/model of mudguards those are? Looking for some better ones for my Pacific Reach City.

Cheers,

Nigel
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Old 08-03-11, 02:32 PM   #16
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Nigel they are made by Raleigh and I got them off ebay here. These are for 20" wheeled Moutlons. Mudguards for 17" wheeled Moultons are only available directly from AM I think.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Raleig...item2eb122732f

However although I have not tried them, I think these look better as the stays can be adjusted easier than the ones I have above which require cutting to the correct length which is a bit hit and miss. My stays are still too long. The Raleigh ones do have nice mud flaps on the ends though.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-SKS-20...item2eb581347e

Or here cheaper and with free delivery

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=25794

The alternative is to get more expensive ones from AM/Pashley though I hear mixed reports about them and breakages.

PS NOTE you will have to modify the front stays to take account of the suspension fork leading links (put a kink in them) so that they do not fowl them as they travel up and down. The AM/Pashley ones of course are supplied with correct shaped stays to overcome this.

Regards

Jerry

Last edited by jerrysimon; 08-03-11 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 08-03-11, 04:47 PM   #17
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Nigel they are made by Raleigh and I got them off ebay here. These are for 20" wheeled Moutlons. Mudguards for 17" wheeled Moultons are only available directly from AM I think.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Raleig...item2eb122732f

However although I have not tried them, I think these look better as the stays can be adjusted easier than the ones I have above which require cutting to the correct length which is a bit hit and miss. My stays are still too long. The Raleigh ones do have nice mud flaps on the ends though.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-SKS-20...item2eb581347e

Or here cheaper and with free delivery :p

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=25794

The alternative is to get more expensive ones from AM/Pashley though I hear mixed reports about them and breakages.

PS NOTE you will have to modify the front stays to take account of the suspension fork leading links (put a kink in them) so that they do not fowl them as they travel up and down. The AM/Pashley ones of course are supplied with correct shaped stays to overcome this.

Regards

Jerry
Thanks, The mudguards you have are one of three models I have been looking into, the SKS Bluemels being the second. The third are the Zefal Paragons which look very similar to the Raleighs: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/zefal-parago...=products#more

If the Bluemels are as long for the rear as the picture then I might prefer those, but these pictures seem to be generic publicity ones for all the SKS Bluemels and the only pictures of actual 20" ones I have found are Dahon specific which appear to be quite short at the back, but with a big mudflap: http://www.fudgescyclestore.com/inde...=57905&o=57905

I want something to replace the ones on my Pacific Reach which are OEM and are very short front and rear with no mudflaps. The front suspension is different to a Moulton in that it is trailing link, so there is no problem attaching the stays with a basic p-clip.
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Old 08-04-11, 01:54 AM   #18
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The Dahon SKS Special Edition appear to have fixed stays at the top which means cutting as per the Raleigh ones. I note the Dahon ones also cover the larger Big Apple tyres.

The older style Zefal look good having adjustable stays and mud flaps

Note they are slightly wider at 50mm though.

Always difficult when buying unseen physically on the internet.

I am planning to swap my Raleigh ones over to my Pashley/Moulton frankenstein, bike shown below, and then get some replacements for my TSR2, probably the ones from the Chain Reaction Cycles link I posted above.




Regards

Jerry

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