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  1. #1
    Senior Member Folding-Bikes's Avatar
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    The full size folder for the rest of us - Pacific iF Urban 700c

    After commuting with it for the first day today, I knew I had to share this here


    Lets face it, full size folding bikes tend to be a pain to travel with, heavy, you need need tools or wheels have to be removed to fold, oh, and look like

    I think this changes things.


    Pics:


    At home with Banksy


    Folds to this in 2-3 seconds


    Now you see it



    Wheel it in, and..

    Now you dont




    More pics HERE


    Have a great day.

    Juan
    Last edited by Folding-Bikes; 09-09-11 at 06:31 AM.
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  2. #2
    Fair Weather Cyclist Transformer's Avatar
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    That looks awesome. It's refreshing to see innovation without drama in the folding realm.

  3. #3
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    That's hot. Discs,IGH,and folds. Price? Website?

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Brompton S6L,Dahon Speed Pro TT

  4. #4
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    Speed Uno
    Dawes Kingpin 2speed

  5. #5
    jur
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    The IF is the most innovative folder to hit the folding scene in recent years. Pacific should bring out some more IF folders and increase their range.
    My folding bike photo essays www.dekter.net/

  6. #6
    Senior Member Folding-Bikes's Avatar
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    I agree with all of the above, it looks badass!. Expect something similar to this with 20" wheels very soon
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  7. #7
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    I'm still waiting for the belt drive...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Folding-Bikes View Post
    I agree with all of the above, it looks badass!. Expect something similar to this with 20" wheels very soon
    Pretty sexy-looking bike! Is there going to be a new version of the IF Reach?
    2009 Curve XRF8w
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Folding-Bikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos71 View Post
    I'm still waiting for the belt drive...
    iF Urban 26" (green bike, its a prototype, cant find any other pics..) has the option of adding any hub & belt drive.
    Bonus: iF you get older/lazier and you feel you need a little extra push, you can upgrade and fit a bottom bracket Sunstar engine with needing to upgrade your bike, it just bolts on) Anyone else thinks every bike should have this option?



    Quote Originally Posted by sjdude View Post
    Pretty sexy-looking bike! Is there going to be a new version of the IF Reach?
    No new iF Reach until Pacific find a geometry that will ride better than Reach.

    But I can hint there will be another completely different 20" iF bike coming, cant say no more (except that it will be, completely different to anything else out there right now, as usual).


    Juan
    Last edited by Folding-Bikes; 09-12-11 at 07:37 AM.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Folding-Bikes's Avatar
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    In case anyone is interested in seen how it folds, video animation HERE


    Juan
    www.folding-bikes.com
    Pacific Folding bikes on Facebook

  11. #11
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    How does it compare to the Montague Boston 8?
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  12. #12
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Not as hot anymore. For $1800 I'd want better specs(Shimano or SRAM hub,Avid brakes).

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Brompton S6L,Dahon Speed Pro TT

  13. #13
    The Metropolis, UK
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    If the IF Urban's price positioning is right it could be a real winner. The Reach IF and IF mode are great bikes but don't fulfil the Mark Sanders philosophy of getting folding bikes to be more mainstream as they are priced at a higher premium.

    In the UK & Europe this bike could be the answer. It's quite a sight to see a full size bike fold so neat and roll under the table!

    What hub is it using?

  14. #14
    The Metropolis, UK
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    PS It looks fab!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    Not as hot anymore. For $1800 I'd want better specs(Shimano or SRAM hub,Avid brakes).
    At $1,800 dollars, I don't expect to see many on the streets. After taxes, this bike will be a cook 2K walking out the door. In this economy, that's a pretty tough sell.

  16. #16
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    how's it any different from people spending that much on a brompton?? and this bike probably rides waaaaay better than it.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azreal911 View Post
    how's it any different from people spending that much on a brompton?? and this bike probably rides waaaaay better than it.
    And the Brommie probably folds waaaaay smaller.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
    At $1,800 dollars, I don't expect to see many on the streets. After taxes, this bike will be a cook 2K walking out the door. In this economy, that's a pretty tough sell.
    I totally agree with you. It's a lovely bike with a wonderful fold but some of the components don't justify a $1800 pricing point. The SA8 is not exactly the best hub in the world, especially compared to a Shimano Alfine 8. Pacific could do very well with this bike if it was closer to $1200. an $1800 version simply needs higher end components.

    how's it any different from people spending that much on a brompton?? and this bike probably rides waaaaay better than it.
    Please check your facts before comparing a totally different folder. The Brompton's entry point is around $1300 on average. Secondly, it has an amazingly small and square fold. Thirdly, have you ridden a Brompton long enough to be informed adequately about the ride quality? I actually find it a very agile and stable ride.
    Last edited by mulleady; 09-15-11 at 03:28 AM.

  19. #19
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    Ok my bad on the brompton pricing but what i'm trying to say is... some people will buy it for the innovation. Just like some of you guys you wouldn't hesitate to buy a brompton or bike friday even though its pretty high in price among the folding bike world, but you are buying it for the folding technology.

    The IF will ride like a full size 700cc bike it has the most innovative folding technology (ability to be wheeled around) that I have ever seen in a long time and besides the frame everything will be standard parts that you can customize from any company which is a plus. It's scary to see some guys in asian countries throwing down $4k for a titanium birdy, but I think it will do well if the innovation is there. You won't get the fanatical fanbase of the brompton but you'd get some good sales for this technology. It won't be a tough sell in markets not in a recession. I rarely seen any pacific cycles bikes for sale in north america, seems like we really aren't their target market at all.

    Also with the dahon price increase I think we are going to stop seeing many brand name quality folders under $1k soon. It's going to affect our mindset on folding bike pricing.
    Last edited by Azreal911; 09-15-11 at 09:14 AM.

  20. #20
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    At 29+ pounds this is no lightweight.

  21. #21
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azreal911 View Post
    how's it any different from people spending that much on a brompton?? and this bike probably rides waaaaay better than it.
    Apples and oranges,really. Brompton people are looking for something that folds small and fast for taking on trains and putting in luggage. The iF would prolly be competing with traditional bikes whose owners want to bring them indoors for theft-prevention and storage. At that price point it would be up against bikes with high end brakes and belt drives that weigh less.

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Brompton S6L,Dahon Speed Pro TT

  22. #22
    The Metropolis, UK
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    It is an old cliche & stereotype to describe Brompton riders as a 'fanatical ' niche. You wouldn't say that if you were in London! ;-)

  23. #23
    Senior Member Folding-Bikes's Avatar
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    Edited

    Last edited by Folding-Bikes; 10-08-11 at 11:02 AM.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Folding-Bikes View Post
    Ali_Pine I just weighted mine, its 23Lbs (10.4kg) all inc. They might need to update the website!.


    Francis you are correct, they are not Shimano Nexus 8, they are Sturmey Archer 8 similar price, a little lighter, wider range of gears and unlike the Nexus you can fit disk breaks. Its not all about the brand name.


    Why is the price $1800?

    Having visited the factory several times, it takes more that just looking at the components to understand where the price comes from.


    Pacific bikes are not like anything on the market right now, you cant compare them with anything out there, and you havent been able to for 40 years. You will not see mass production at Pacific, ever. They are proud at keeping things small, out of the 100 employees, 20 are designers, they have 1 sales/marketing/events person.. (this is why you will not always find the right weight quoted on the website!). They also make & design bikes for other brands (ICE & HP Velotechnik recumbent, Astrix and Niner mountain bikes, Airnimal and R&M folding bikes, and many others. None of this bikes are cheap, actually the cheapest bikes Pacific makes are under their own brand!


    So, if they dont spend money on advertising, why is the price so high?

    Lets take this bike as an example. The iF Urban has an alloy 7005 irregular tubular frame, similar to many bikes out there that cost 1/2 as much. But thats where the similarities end. The headtube on this bike is sand casted in 1 piece, followed by machining, the hinge is CNC'd in 3D, this is very time consuming & expensive, but its worth it if you want your bike to last (something people who buy/own Pacific bikes understand & value, but dont take my word for it, ask them!). Now lets get both halves together, there is a reason why there are no tubular diamond frame folding bikes that fold, its a pain to get right. On a normal bike, you just cut/weld measure once or twice for tolerance and done, on all iF bikes it takes between 40-50 times, because of the way it folds, if its wrong by a couple of mm the wheels will not lock together when folded (Mulleady knows this since he owns an iF Reach, if the suspension does not retract fully after a long ride wheels do not connect right, a simple push down at the top of the fork sorts it tho).



    This is all very good, but why do people buy them?

    Ride them and you will understand. Pacific bikes dont focust just on small fold, they rate geometry and ride quality higher than folding small. This does not mean they dont know how to do small! Their CarryMe has the smaller footprint in the market & their Frog is known for riding just as good as its older brother, the Birdy.

    Its always good to look back to what they have achieved,who they are, their history goes way back, they have brought us bikes like the first true production BMX, the Raileigh Rampar who go for silly money on ebay now a days, or the old sturdy Peugeot bikes that you still see in the roads today favoured by fixi riders, or the first Mountain bikes with Gary Fisher or the first suspension folding bike with R&M, the Birdy...



    I could go, but the bottom line is NO, Pacific bikes are not made for everyone, they are designed & built specifically for the people that ride them.


    Hope this answers a few Q's


    Juan



    PS: Longest post EVER. Mulleady we need to catch up some day ;-)
    Juan,

    Is this $1800 in pounds or US dollars?

    In my opinion, I like to see more full sized innovative folder design. This bike looks cool.
    But I think it might face some uphill challenge just by looking at the price tag alone. Despite the design, full sized folders are not new. Pacific has an interesting folding design, which I think has its appeal against Lock Jaws, Ritchey breakaway, S&S coupler and Airnimal Joey that is not full sized, but big wheel enough to qualify as one, but just does not fold fast. But for that kind of price tag, I'm not so sure the majority of riders who are considering full sized folder are willing to pay that premium. Certainly if there are enough customers to fund the on-going day to day business of Pacific, I suppose it's ok for sales. However, at this price range, you are starting to also compete with full size racing and road bikes. There are a few $1000 to $2000 road bikes in the US and Canada that are selling with carbon frames. Unless there is a real reason for someone wanting a full sized folder, most people are well served with smaller sized folders like the Brompton or Dahon. I think for bike commuters who want to bike the whole way and need big wheels will want this, but again that's a big IF. In North America, most companies have a warehouse that allow employees to store their bikes in. Some even have secured bike cages. My workplace has one. This allows me to ride any bike rain, snow or shine from carbon to steel not fearing of theft.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Folding-Bikes's Avatar
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    1199 in UK pounds, similar to Birdy entry level,Airnimal Chameleon, or a basic Moulton.


    In the UK, you can only take folding bikes into trains, no matter what wheel size, as long as they fold, you are good to go.


    If you want to know a bit more about who would find this bike useful you might be interested in THIS survey, (they wanted to know if starting a company offering safe storage in peoples gardens was a good business idea)

    Here are 2 charts that I think are important:



    The question is: How much would you be willing to pay for a solution to your bicycle storage problem? (or something like that)



    From this study we can concur:

    1) Most people in London take their bikes INSIDE (For reasons we all here know very well)
    2) 1 Square Metre of property in London costs 12,000
    3) 95% Of cyclists prefer full size bikes
    4) Small percentage are willing to spend some 1000+ on a solution



    Juan
    www.folding-bikes.com
    Pacific Folding bikes on Facebook

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