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Old 11-13-11, 05:54 PM   #1
fwd-bwd
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TSR 2 --> TSR 5 mod

I recently moved from NYC to SF and soon came to the (literally) painful realization that my TSR 2's gear range was inadequate for the hilly terrain. What's more, the S2C hub had become increasingly unreliable. After some research I decided to replace it with a SRAM P5. It's the only gear hub that offers more than 3 gears, includes a coaster brake, and still fits into a 120mm dropout.

Since there is no cable guide/stop on TSR 2 (S2C needs no shifter cable), this isn't a straightforward hub swap. Therefore I contacted the Moulton expert Mr. Metras and he graciously agreed to do the mod for me. It took him only a few days to build the wheel and install everything, and the result totally blew me away. I'll let the pictures do the talking (from front to back):

Shifter


Cable stop 1 (secured with the front rack; if you don't have one, a bolt is just as good)


Cable splitter (only needed for separable frame)


Cable stop 2 (secured with a Herbie Clip)


2 cable ties


Click box and hub (dust cap not installed—space too tight)


Ta-da!


The gear range is now 251% (32, 40, 51, 65, 81), much better suited for the city's famed hills than S2C's 138% (51, 70). The clicking sound P5 makes is more muted and pleasant. The braking "feels" much nicer as well. While the new hub is heavier, the lighter Velocity rim that Bruce used to build the wheel cancels it out. All is all, this is very nice upgrade. I highly recommend anyone who wants to give his or her TSR 2 a boost contact Bruce for a quote.
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Old 11-13-11, 06:58 PM   #2
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One thing I forgot to mention: P5's axle diameter is thicker than S2C. Thus, the axle hole on the pulley guide (snubber arm) needs to be drilled larger.
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Old 11-13-11, 06:59 PM   #3
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Bravo, nicely done, and very cool bike!

(from another SF folder guy)
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Old 11-13-11, 10:03 PM   #4
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Very sweet!

(from yet another SF folder fan and Moultoneer)
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Old 11-14-11, 12:14 AM   #5
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Very hip San Francisco city bike!

Bruce is the Maestro of Moulton. You couldn't have found a better guy to work on your bike.
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Old 11-14-11, 01:25 AM   #6
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Bruce has just a few major flaws.




One, he has no ugly bikes.


Two, he does not live in Melbourne.


But he's still a maestro.
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Old 11-14-11, 08:04 AM   #7
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SRAM announced almost a year ago that the wonderful P5 hub would be going out of production. It might already have. They've certainly quit marketing it.

I should think the Sturmey's XRC5(W) five speed coaster brake hub could be made to work in a 120mm OLD steel frame.
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Old 11-14-11, 09:19 AM   #8
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SRAM announced almost a year ago that the wonderful P5 hub would be going out of production. It might already have. They've certainly quit marketing it.
I posed a question along the same lines to the SRAM buyer of a major US wholesale supply house .. the freewheel and drum brake versions of the P5 were discontinued over 2 years ago.. he continues to order the P5 Coaster, which is still being supplied... I hope the new SRAM IGH facility in Taiwan will produce a suitable replacement for P5 .. it is such a nice hub.

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I should think the Sturmey's XRC5(W) five speed coaster brake hub could be made to work in a 120mm OLD steel frame.
The XRC5 could be made to work .. just not as elegantly, with the SA OLN at 127mm and the P5 Coaster at 120mm .. so frame spreading or nut whacking .. also, the Sturmey is heavier .. a larger issue, the major SA suppliers in the US either don't list or stock the XRC5(W) .. I may buy a few more P5s to put on the shelf
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Old 11-14-11, 09:26 AM   #9
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Bruce has just a few major flaws.
I appreciate that..

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One, he has no ugly bikes.
Wait until you see my new TSR-8 build...

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Two, he does not live in Melbourne.
I'd love to visit though.. please provide air fare...

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But he's still a maestro.
Thanks, but I just hobby around like you do.. somethings come out great .. others, not so much..

Bruce
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Old 11-14-11, 09:31 AM   #10
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Yes, it's sad news that SRAM is phasing out the old trusties (T3, P5, and S7). I don't know if they will introduce new 5 or 7 speed hubs; but even if they do, the new version probably wouldn't work for 120mm OLD. The i3, which replaces T3, is of 130mm OLD, and i9 135mm. So it looks like SRAM is abandoning the 120mm standard.
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Old 11-14-11, 09:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fwd-bwd View Post
I recently moved from NYC to SF and soon came to the (literally) painful realization that my TSR 2's gear range was inadequate for the hilly terrain. What's more, the S2C hub had become increasingly unreliable. After some research I decided to replace it with a SRAM P5. It's the only gear hub that offers more than 3 gears, includes a coaster brake, and still fits into a 120mm dropout.

Since there is no cable guide/stop on TSR 2 (S2C needs no shifter cable), this isn't a straightforward hub swap. Therefore I contacted the Moulton expert Mr. Metras and he graciously agreed to do the mod for me. It took him only a few days to build the wheel and install everything, and the result totally blew me away. I'll let the pictures do the talking (from front to back):

It was a pleasure working with you and your bike (absolutely spotless machine with careful attention to detail).. glad you like it ... I loved the 30 miles I put on it during testing .. so much so, that another one is in the works..

Bruce
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Old 11-14-11, 09:38 AM   #12
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There were lots of things that worried me before embarking on the crass-country move. One thing I surely wasn't stressed over was the maintenance of my TSR. I knew it would be in good hands. Bruce is da man.
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Old 11-14-11, 09:39 AM   #13
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Very sweet!

(from yet another SF folder fan and Moultoneer)
Transformer! time for that Moulton review of your new steed ..

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Very hip San Francisco city bike!

Bruce is the Maestro of Moulton. You couldn't have found a better guy to work on your bike.
S/C !! looks like a lot of new folder interest in the SF Bay area.. maybe time for another of your highly successful SF Folder Fests!!
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Old 11-14-11, 12:17 PM   #14
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a larger issue, the major SA suppliers in the US either don't list or stock the XRC5(W)
biketoolsetc lists the XRC5(W) and has had them in stock in the past.
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Old 11-14-11, 12:33 PM   #15
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Transformer! time for that Moulton review of your new steed ..



S/C !! looks like a lot of new folder interest in the SF Bay area.. maybe time for another of your highly successful SF Folder Fests!!
Duly noted for Spring '12.

Too cold now. Heck, it's in the 50's in the daytime here.


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Old 11-14-11, 02:31 PM   #16
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Seen others add a schlumpf 2 speed crank,
2.5 reduction gear or 1.6 or 2.5 overdrive
so still not needing any cables with kick back shift 2 speed coaster hub.


read SRAM has began the final closure of the last of the German Sachs
manufacturing facilities , and shipping the machinery overseas.
making some products just will not be restarted in Taiwan.

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Old 11-14-11, 02:41 PM   #17
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Seen others add a schlumpf 2 speed crank,
2.5 reduction gear or 1.6 or 2.5 overdrive
so still not needing any cables with kick back shift 2 speed coaster hub.
In Moulton parlance, it was the Model 50

On this board, Jur has 'been there done that' ... as well as myself..
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Old 11-14-11, 03:45 PM   #18
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I "am there, doing that," with a genuine Moulton 50. It's been a little rocky getting the Schlumpf SpeedDrive dialed in to begin with. I'm waiting to clock more positive miles before commenting at length.
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Old 11-14-11, 04:02 PM   #19
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Duly noted for Spring '02.

Too cold now. Heck, it's in the 50's in the daytime here.


PERFECT riding weather. No wind in the afternoons, and don't have to cart so much water along. In the spring and summer you have to contend with those afternoon NW winds. I'm weak enough when it's calm!

PS: Spring '02 is long gone. ;-)
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Old 11-14-11, 04:03 PM   #20
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Seen others add a schlumpf 2 speed crank,
2.5 reduction gear or 1.6 or 2.5 overdrive
so still not needing any cables with kick back shift 2 speed coaster hub.
Only problem is the cumbersome shifting with this arrangement....
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Old 11-14-11, 04:04 PM   #21
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PS: Spring '02 is long gone. ;-)
Oops, corrected.
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Old 11-14-11, 07:05 PM   #22
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I have an after-market Schlumpf Speed Drive fitted to my Strida and logged quite some miles on it. While I don't have experience using geared BB and kick-shift hub on the same bike, I can't imagine it being an easy setup to shift quickly and smoothly. But it can just my lack of imagination.
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Old 11-15-11, 10:47 AM   #23
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Put the mountain drive and AW 3 speed together, 3to4 is 1-2 step,
but both are planetaries so take place at any speed, even at a halt.
a little more time than 7to8 in a R'off, but not really an issue,
for a JRA pace rider ...
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Old 11-16-11, 01:39 AM   #24
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nice bike...moulton on moulton street....
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Old 11-16-11, 05:27 AM   #25
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Unfortunately, there is no Dahon St. in San Francisco.
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