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  1. #1
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    Bike Friday: which one is the one?

    I own a Dahon X10 and MuP8 but need something that I can bring to overseas trips to hilly cities.

    When I am not travelling I would occasionally ride fast 25-33kph and bike to work everyday (not hilly) though not bi-modal I would like to have an option to fold it up quickly.

    Im sure this is a Bike Friday I am looking for but not sure which model. Please help me determine the model and also recommend the specifications (capreo, handlebar etc) that would fit my requirements too.

  2. #2
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    Get a Bike Friday Tikit. I can spin my stock 8 speed gearing up to 25-33kph. You can also get higher gearing if you want as well as drop or H-bars for a more aero position. My advise is get Greenspeed Scorcher tires - don't think you'll be faster on skinny rubber on a 16" wheel.

    http://thelazyrando.wordpress.com/20...peeding-tikit/
    Last edited by vik; 11-27-11 at 11:59 AM.
    safe riding - Vik
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattosecond View Post
    I own a Dahon X10 and MuP8 but need something that I can bring to overseas trips to hilly cities.

    When I am not travelling I would occasionally ride fast 25-33kph and bike to work everyday (not hilly) though not bi-modal I would like to have an option to fold it up quickly.

    Im sure this is a Bike Friday I am looking for but not sure which model. Please help me determine the model and also recommend the specifications (capreo, handlebar etc) that would fit my requirements too.
    You can not fold quickly with the Bike Friday, except for the Tikit model.

    Anyhow, I have a Dahon Mu SL which is similar to your X10 that is equipped with 2 chain rings. You can only use 1 ring at a time, but on hilly runs, I switch to my 2nd chain ring (a 39T) using my toe and you can climb a tree with that! Determine your crank's BCD and then go to Sheldon's website to find the right second chain ring. This mod is cheaper than a complete Bike Friday. Most Dahon cranks are double, with the first being a chain guard.
    On my Arizona trip, I have no problems maintaining speeds around 22-25mph with the Trek roadies riding Madone 5.2 and 6.2s, drafting behind! In fact, they were so impressed with my SL that they called it my Dahon the Mini-Rocket!

    My setup are as follows.

    In very hilly Vancouver and Vancouver Island (where we have 15 to 18% grades), I use a 46T/39T chain ring setup with a 11-32T cassette at the back.

    While I was in Arizona, I had it configured with a 53T/46T cause it's mostly flat except cycling up to Carefree where I am on the 46T. I also have a Capreo rear wheel, but did not use this on the trip.

    To switch back and forth, use popsicle sticks. Cheap and light, though the downshift can be done with my toe.

    I'm too cheap to buy Thor's front derailleur upgrade kit for the Mu and my constant chain ring and chain swaps depending on abroad terrain and location probably won't work too well with that.
    Last edited by pacificcyclist; 11-27-11 at 12:46 PM.
    Trek 5000 carbon road bike
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  4. #4
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    But they fold some. my BF PL has a QR that holds the rear end and the seat mast,
    once it is loosened rear and seat mast fold. it's part of the travel packing procedure.
    so a bit stiff, , I happened to get the folding handle bar mast, that option folds down,
    adjusts in height and uses a normal threadless stem, so bar choice is wide open.

    Tikit has an advantage for IG hub drivetrains (season tikit)
    as the BB Shell is part of the rear portion, Black in Vic's picture ..
    For the 20" wheel line, the hinge is behind the BB, which is part of the main frame.

    so my BF PL has a chain-tensioner , even though it has an IGH.

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    Speed Uno
    Dawes Kingpin 2speed

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    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Yea, the PR with 451 wheels lets you fit skinny HP tires
    any how there is a whole BF chatty web list yak@bikefriday.com

  7. #7
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    for fastest fold - BF TIKIT (5 seconds).

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    Dear Vik, you are taking this purple thing too far !

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattosecond View Post
    I own a Dahon X10 and MuP8 but need something that I can bring to overseas trips to hilly cities.
    Of course you have something that you can bring to overseas trips already. Add a second chainring and front derailleur to the X10 for hill climbing gears.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  10. #10
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattosecond View Post
    I own a Dahon X10 and MuP8 but need something that I can bring to overseas trips to hilly cities.

    When I am not travelling I would occasionally ride fast 25-33kph and bike to work everyday (not hilly) though not bi-modal I would like to have an option to fold it up quickly.

    Im sure this is a Bike Friday I am looking for but not sure which model. Please help me determine the model and also recommend the specifications (capreo, handlebar etc) that would fit my requirements too.
    Relative to Dahons, the only Bike Friday that folds "quickly" IMO is that tikit.

    You should use the handlebars that are most comfortable for you. Any can be set up for fast riding; but I like bars with lots of curves and generally use drop bars for longer rides.

    I'd go with ...

    Capreo cassette
    Dual chainring, 52/39

    ... this gives you something like 25-97 gear inches with good shifting up front and rear

    I'd go with a high quality wide tire ... Vik's suggestion of the Scorcher is excellent

    I'd also carry loads on the front wheel since the extra weight improves steering with a low trail bike, IME.

  11. #11
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
    Relative to Dahons, the only Bike Friday that folds "quickly" IMO is that tikit.
    This is 100% correct although there is one benefit to the "fold" of a Bike Friday NWT and that is the cockpit doesn't have to be adjusted after the fold. Everything pops back exactly into the same spot as the previous 100 unfolds. On my Dahon I tend to have a ritual of getting the bike unfolded...riding half a block and stopping to adjust the saddle and/or the bars.

    However, unless you are doing some heavily loaded touring I'd go for the Tikit for ease of fold.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbeans View Post
    Dear Vik, you are taking this purple thing too far !
    You haven't even seen my speed suit yet!...
    safe riding - Vik
    VikApproved

  12. #12
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    You guys got me thinking on upgrading the X10 with additonal gears. i really love the nimbleness of that Dahon.
    I agree on the always setting up that seatpost. I want that constant task to go away!

    But to to tell you frankly that purple Tikit is really poisonous! I just worry it wont be fast enough for those weekend ride with the roadies.

    Is the Tikit easy to bring on the luggage to a trip by air? Is dismantling it very tedious?

  13. #13
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    I just worry it wont be fast enough for those weekend ride with the roadies.
    All else fails , Wheel-Suck behind those guys, let them lead out.

    The small wheel in front lets you follow closer without overlapping their back wheel.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 11-28-11 at 01:37 PM.

  14. #14
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattosecond View Post
    You guys got me thinking on upgrading the X10 with additonal gears. i really love the nimbleness of that Dahon.
    I love my Bike Fridays, but if you have a bike you like there is nothing wrong with upgrading it to suit your needs rather than buying new.



    Quote Originally Posted by rattosecond View Post
    I agree on the always setting up that seatpost. I want that constant task to go away!
    I can't help you with the seatpost thing - that's just life with that style of fold. The 100% cockpit adjustment certainty definitely was one of the things that sold me on buying a Tikit after using my Dahon for a few months.



    Quote Originally Posted by rattosecond View Post
    But to to tell you frankly that purple Tikit is really poisonous! I just worry it wont be fast enough for those weekend ride with the roadies.
    Luckily the Tikit comes in a wide variety of colours. I can't say if you'll be able to keep up with the weekend roadies, but it won't be the bike's fault!...

    safe riding - Vik
    VikApproved

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattosecond View Post
    You guys got me thinking on upgrading the X10 with additonal gears. i really love the nimbleness of that Dahon.
    I agree on the always setting up that seatpost. I want that constant task to go away!

    But to to tell you frankly that purple Tikit is really poisonous! I just worry it wont be fast enough for those weekend ride with the roadies.

    Is the Tikit easy to bring on the luggage to a trip by air? Is dismantling it very tedious?
    The Dahon X10 has one of the stiffest frame on the folder front, definitely stiffer than the Tikit which translates to a more responsive ride. You probably notice this already, so I am not sure why you are planning on a downgrade? Secondly, it is easy to setup the Dahon seatpost during assembly. It is called a Sharpie. Use it to mark the position of your post and then install it back to your bike. Same with the handlebar with the Syntace gadget. On my last bike trip, it literally took me less than 1 minute to setup the bar and seatpost position. The Mu bike is easier to setup than the lower end Dahon bikes btw. It took me a bit longer to re-assemble the derailleur hanger and derailleur back to the frame as I took that off when it was in its suitcase. There is a slight advantage to the Bike Friday setup on this respect, but not a deal breaker.

    If you are a strong good rider, you should have no problems keeping up with the roadies. Drafting is easy on a folding bike down to the smaller front wheel, allowing you to suck behind. My Mu SL was good in that respect after my last trip which happened 1 week ago. The wider and lower pressure Big Apple tires helped keep my speeds up more than my Stelvios, but also provide better cushioning.
    Your X10, like my Mu SL, package is really ideal for fast rides. Just add a low bail out chain ring and you will be fine.

    Since I have used my Mu SL on a few air trips already, I never regretted going to the Dahon.

    For the upgrade, I probably be looking at the Tern Verge X30h as the replacement to the Mu SL.

    Lastly, all Bike Friday bikes are meant to fit into the Samsonite Flite case they sell
    Trek 5000 carbon road bike
    Masi Speciale CX touring bike
    Dahon Mu SL (performance hybrid road bike)
    Dahon Speed Duo (slow poker shopper or coffee getter bike)

  16. #16
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    Vik,

    hmmm...orange, black, blue, yellow...in any case you sure did wet our appetites with those NICE tikits....NICE colors.....

    OP - upgrading might be a better and cheaper route for you (as mentioned above) . i myself is constantly upgrading my dahon speed tr. i have a bullhorn, shimano sti, travel agents, on standby.....

  17. #17
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacificcyclist View Post
    The Dahon X10 has one of the stiffest frame on the folder front, definitely stiffer than the Tikit which translates to a more responsive ride.
    Interestingly I had my old 1st generation Tikit and a newer 2010 Tikit for a season. When I was deciding which one to keep I was aware the newer Tikit was noticeably stiffer than my older Tikit. I eventually kept the older Tikit because in practice the extra frame flex had zero impact on my actually riding experience and I'm one of those idiots who has to race from light to light on a folder. I certainly didn't feel keeping the older bike was a downgrade.

    My latest road bike was custom built for me with the lightest guage skinny tubing practical and it's a rocket ship - especially uphill.

    I think the whole pursuit of an ultra stiff frame is misguided and doesn't result in better performance in the real world for normal human cyclists.
    safe riding - Vik
    VikApproved

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    Quote Originally Posted by vik View Post
    Interestingly I had my old 1st generation Tikit and a newer 2010 Tikit for a season. When I was deciding which one to keep I was aware the newer Tikit was noticeably stiffer than my older Tikit. I eventually kept the older Tikit because in practice the extra frame flex had zero impact on my actually riding experience and I'm one of those idiots who has to race from light to light on a folder. I certainly didn't feel keeping the older bike was a downgrade.

    My latest road bike was custom built for me with the lightest guage skinny tubing practical and it's a rocket ship - especially uphill.

    I think the whole pursuit of an ultra stiff frame is misguided and doesn't result in better performance in the real world for normal human cyclists.

    Vik,

    Perhaps you're right on the newer Tikit. I only tested the older Tikit version against the Dahon. The original poster wanted to know if the X10 can be modified to have lower gears. It certainly can and it still fits inside the suitcase. If the poster has lots and lots of money, I don't see anything wrong in him or her buying a Bike Friday, but I would not recommend a Tikit though. I would recommend their Pocket Rocket Pro mid end build would be a rocket ship to boot; well at least when I rode it a few years back if you want to keep a pace line or be in front of the roadie group. While the PR Pro doesn't quick fold, this is a no compromise race machine. But really, paying a few thousands dollars to buy a specific bike for a specific trip when his X10 can perhaps do the job for less was really my point in my last post. Why make negative assumptions about the X10 without trying at least to modify it and test riding it with a group?

    In terms of bike stiffness. I think you may have misunderstood about the bike frame being stiff rather than being stiff in all the right places. Frames flex to a certain amount, but that should be geared towards riding comfort when correct tire pressure is used. Frame stiffness in all the right places helps translate the rider's pedal power towards more immediate realized forward propulsion, be it for hill climbing or out of saddle sprints. It probably won't make a huge dent in riding performance for a recreational rider, but it does help improve the riding experience for a number few. And which is the main selling point of Tern bikes.
    Last edited by pacificcyclist; 11-29-11 at 02:43 PM.
    Trek 5000 carbon road bike
    Masi Speciale CX touring bike
    Dahon Mu SL (performance hybrid road bike)
    Dahon Speed Duo (slow poker shopper or coffee getter bike)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacificcyclist View Post
    The Dahon X10 has one of the stiffest frame on the folder front, definitely stiffer than the Tikit which translates to a more responsive ride. You probably notice this already, so I am not sure why you are planning on a downgrade? Secondly, it is easy to setup the Dahon seatpost during assembly. It is called a Sharpie. Use it to mark the position of your post and then install it back to your bike. Same with the handlebar with the Syntace gadget. On my last bike trip, it literally took me less than 1 minute to setup the bar and seatpost position. The Mu bike is easier to setup than the lower end Dahon bikes btw. It took me a bit longer to re-assemble the derailleur hanger and derailleur back to the frame as I took that off when it was in its suitcase. There is a slight advantage to the Bike Friday setup on this respect, but not a deal breaker.

    If you are a strong good rider, you should have no problems keeping up with the roadies. Drafting is easy on a folding bike down to the smaller front wheel, allowing you to suck behind. My Mu SL was good in that respect after my last trip which happened 1 week ago. The wider and lower pressure Big Apple tires helped keep my speeds up more than my Stelvios, but also provide better cushioning.
    Your X10, like my Mu SL, package is really ideal for fast rides. Just add a low bail out chain ring and you will be fine.

    Since I have used my Mu SL on a few air trips already, I never regretted going to the Dahon.

    For the upgrade, I probably be looking at the Tern Verge X30h as the replacement to the Mu SL.

    Lastly, all Bike Friday bikes are meant to fit into the Samsonite Flite case they sell

    Thank you! Just wondering what luggage do you use for your MuSL and also how to disassemble it to fit the luggage.

    BTW I put the BF purchase on hold which is a good thing, I think.

  20. #20
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Getting one with 'as is' as the component option resolves the choice problem.

    Then you change stuff after it is in hand.


    Please help me determine the model and also recommend the specifications (capreo, handlebar etc) that would fit my requirements too.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattosecond View Post
    Thank you! Just wondering what luggage do you use for your MuSL and also how to disassemble it to fit the luggage.

    BTW I put the BF purchase on hold which is a good thing, I think.
    I am using the Delsey Helium hard case, which is sort of almost like their older Delsey Axiom. You can still buy this case in some stores, but it can be rare.

    Here are 2 photos to show you how I disassembled it to fit into the luggage for my last trip.

    DSCN3822.jpgDSCN3823.jpg

    Here is the bike unfolded. Notice the double chain ring setup.

    DSCN3835.jpg
    Last edited by pacificcyclist; 12-02-11 at 12:43 AM.
    Trek 5000 carbon road bike
    Masi Speciale CX touring bike
    Dahon Mu SL (performance hybrid road bike)
    Dahon Speed Duo (slow poker shopper or coffee getter bike)

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacificcyclist View Post
    I am using the Delsey Helium hard case, which is sort of almost like their older Delsey Axiom. You can still buy this case in some stores, but it can be rare.

    Here are 2 photos to show you how I disassembled it to fit into the luggage for my last trip.

    DSCN3822.jpgDSCN3823.jpg

    Here is the bike unfolded. Notice the double chain ring setup.

    DSCN3835.jpg
    That luggage is small but it can fit!
    Wow you have changed it to Marathon Plus and Big Apples? Now this a light touring bike. Making a lot sense now!

    How light is your bike now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rattosecond View Post
    That luggage is small but it can fit!
    Wow you have changed it to Marathon Plus and Big Apples? Now this a light touring bike. Making a lot sense now!

    How light is your bike now?
    Oh no rattosecond, this is not a small case at all. It may look small on the outside (which is a GODSEND to me), but the interior is roomy. To give you a comparison, here's another case used by the Gaerlan website which were their Jumbo and 29" Samsonite cases and look carefully at their wheels placement -- almost tip to tip from one wheel to the next leaving little room for a front handlebar bag and a rear 8L Vaude detachable bag like mine did. I chose to take the pedals out so there's no sharp objects to poke through my case. Here's the link. http://travelbybike.com/dahon/pack.htm. Their packing instructions are excellent and that's what I did.

    Btw, the more expensive Dahon Airporter II case is a smaller case than my Delsey.

    Tires. I used the Marathon Plus and the Big Apples for this trip because we sometimes rode mixed terrain (trails in the desert and roads) and I can vary tire pressures for riding terrain and they seemed to be very flat resistance from thorns. The Big Apple is an extremely versatile tire, very comfy when inflated correctly and it has some thick rubber lining which thankfully prevented me from getting flats during the weeks ride in Arizona as thorns from Cactus are NASTY and darn near invincible to avoid. Having said that, it is currently set up as a light touring bike as I have the Dahon racks for the front and the rear ArcLite, bolted on only when I do B&B touring. Basically, the Gaerlan website gave me that inspiration! No loaded camping tours as the Kinetix Pro wheels are not meant to take on more heavier loads, and besides I have a proper 26" touring bike to do that job anyhow.

    Weight of the bike after the mods with pedals is around 22lbs for this trip, but it varies again depending on what trips I plan to take on and the necessary modification to meet that.
    Trek 5000 carbon road bike
    Masi Speciale CX touring bike
    Dahon Mu SL (performance hybrid road bike)
    Dahon Speed Duo (slow poker shopper or coffee getter bike)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbeans View Post
    Dear Vik, you are taking this purple thing too far !
    That's Rob English's legendary personal Speeding Tikit. It's pink.

  25. #25
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    And, that scene is outside the BF company building.
    Yellow and blue ones are off the sales floor, I expect .

    Vic has already sold the orange one, as i read here earlier.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 12-04-11 at 01:55 AM.

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