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Thread: 3 Bromptons

  1. #1
    Senior Member NigelHealy's Avatar
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    3 Bromptons

    As they are now


    here as they were in 2007 the red one I since sold and bought the "Turkish Blue" thingy.


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    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Put my Mk 2 T3 up for sale, no nibbles for many months
    On display on the floor at the local shop..

    might just modify it, instead,, saw 86mm bcd chainrings
    fit on the inner most bolt circle , seek a 28t one of those .. stronglight I suppose..

    seen the SP front shifter bracket that is a way to fit a FD on without burning paint and brazing.

    Greasy finger shifting, it can be just bolted on the outside, FD on it then it would go inside
    then the big ring has to move over..

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    That's a lot of Bromptons for one man.

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    Are they different models?
    Speed Uno
    Dawes Kingpin 2speed

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    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    the 2 with leather saddles are both Ti X versions..
    one , Dk Blue, has a rack, too, as shown on the beach picture.

  6. #6
    Senior Member NigelHealy's Avatar
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    There are two Ti frame, one 2-speed hub, one 6-speed SRAM hub, one 6-speed BWR hub, a rack, a SON hub. Two S-bar stems and a M-bar stem. I have a Mountain Drive too.
    I move parts around to suit the seasons and regular uses.

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    How do you find the Brompton saddle when you switch from one with a Brooks?

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    Very nice. I have had M2L for 2 years and 3000 miles now. Simlar but opposite questions on the leather saddles, as Santa is bringing me one for Christmas. Should have got it at the beginning as it would be broken in by now

    How did you find the saddles compared to the stock one ?

    Did the leather ones take long to tame ?

    Regards

    Jerry
    Last edited by jerrysimon; 12-18-11 at 07:04 AM.

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    I really like the dark blue/titanium combination, the cool blue and the warm grey of titanium complement each other very nicely.

  10. #10
    Senior Member NigelHealy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chagzuki View Post
    How do you find the Brompton saddle when you switch from one with a Brooks?
    The Brooks B17 saddle is the most comfy.
    The Brompton new saddle, its a bit harsh and the ridge, between the top and the side, is noticeable. Its not as BAD as the older Brompton saddle, doesn't bottom-out wack hard, but not as good as Brooks.

    I'm just starting out preparing to swap a lot of parts around, I just ordered new chains, have already new sprockets, new Ergon grips, and will get some Velox which is infinitately better than the crap Brompton use, then will be moving stuff around.

    One thing I need to figure out is doing Ti actually make for a comfier ride, because I only really need Ti on one Brompton, in theory, for weight reasons, and so release some $ by selling one Ti. If however Ti has comfort advantages, I'd keep Ti.

    I do 100+ miles day rides and the ultimate problem is comfort, the fitness sorts itself out. My limit is about 130miles/day and that is down to a shoulder problem. I know Ergon GR2 is better than Brompton's foam, will be trying it on the longer S-bar (my older S-bar is from 2007, its about an inch longer now) and do that on Ti vs Steel forks to see if any comfort difference.

  11. #11
    Senior Member NigelHealy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chagzuki View Post
    I really like the dark blue/titanium combination, the cool blue and the warm grey of titanium complement each other very nicely.
    The Ti seatpost is blue-ish, the Ti frame parts is plain dark grey. I was getting "ooooh aaaah" comments on my new frame from the street but "yuk" from my daughter on the colour.

  12. #12
    Senior Member NigelHealy's Avatar
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    ahhh, the same Jerrysimon I take it over in BromptonTalk?

  13. #13
    Senior Member NigelHealy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    saw 86mm bcd chainrings
    fit on the inner most bolt circle , seek a 28t one of those .. stronglight I suppose..

    seen the SP front shifter bracket that is a way to fit a FD on without burning paint and brazing.

    Greasy finger shifting, it can be just bolted on the outside, FD on it then it would go inside
    then the big ring has to move over..
    Been there done that. It has its role in the Brompton universe for infrequent changing down for the rare long steep climb when you don't want the cost or weight of Schlumpf. Issue is its not as good for more frequent shifting, PLUS (ultimate failure) the Alu Brompton crankset is not designed for the stresses you put through the crankset via riding up such steep hills, I've BENT two cranksets doing that. Its ok for ad-hoc but its not the right solution for serious hill climbing, the only solutions being replace the entire crankset with a MTB type crankset, or Schlumpf. I bought the Schlumpf.

    So my plan, I been hatching for a year+ now is a SRAM+Schlump for 12-even-close gears on a touring long distance hilly Bromptn, and a BWR on a less-hilly medium-distance Brompton. I further focus the difference in specifications for weight so that's a S6R/SRAM/MD and a S6L-X/BWR. When I bought the latest Brompton I was thinking of the SON on the S6R/SRAM/MD so I don't suffer flat-battery on long rides, but since owning one the joy of simply-riding with auto-sensing lights is cool and I might keep it on my S6L-X and dam the 200g-ish weight gain.

  14. #14
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    I'm thinking a more likely crank change to a Campag GS, I've got on hand.
    and get to use some of the odd sized chainrings set up a 43-49 combination
    splitting up the AW3 for 6 ratios.. mid sizes..

    Got a CM Wasson supplied version of the SP FD mount,
    [burning a hole in my tinkerer's pocket occasionally]
    then I decided to get a Mountain drive. because I live on a Hill ( for the 17 " low)

    interested to learn about 2 chainring setups that have worked on those Brompton MD,
    as is I'm using a 15t/54t combination 3/ 32 cogs, [SRAM/Sachs part].
    Swapping the 13t, a 47t will give be a similar low , and range,
    and the 54t half steps on the high side. and the shifting is still 'fairly' straight forward.

    in low range the ratios % wise, are so dense, as to not offer much difference
    in sequence, so kicking down to low , which chainring is in use
    is of little difference, then just switching the 3 speed's shifting..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 12-15-11 at 05:17 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member NigelHealy's Avatar
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    Yes all those years ago I saw CM Wasson, who I bought my last Brompton off, did offer a front derailleur solution. I bought a Steve Parry clamp which allows any braze-on fitting front derailleur, I used a Campag Mirage Tripe with a 22T capacity, I paired it with a 50T/28T on a longer 127mm BB and cut out the end of the bridge of the derailleur to aid folding. I had a friction shift lever on the handlebars. The gearing was used in the thread I posted. The problem is the Brompton crankset is neither stiff nor strong, its optimised for weight and cost primarily, and on the outer chainring if its getting a little steep the chain is moving left/right and rubbing on the derailleur and you have to micro-adjust via the shifter to avoid rub. Next, on STEEP hills the inner chainring via the bolts is stretching the holes in the outer chainring and would lead to failure, with Alu probably unexpectedly.

    The manual-move approach doesn't have the derailleur and you can have the BB a little shorter to help with chain alignment as you don't need get a FD betwix frame and inner chainring. That avoids derailleur rub but adds the issue of manual-move.

    The Schlumpf avoids all such issues but is a significant expense and it adds about 1Kg to any package.

    However, no matter what you have on the front, once biking up a steep hill you cannot shift the rear derailleur, or get a horrible crunching sound, but simply get in the lower inner sprocket and use the hub to shift. The hub cannot be under ANY load to shift, you have to stop pedalling briefly and resume.

    Moderately steep hills I can do with the BWR, hills I could never do with the SRAM. A 44T SRAM was 36" low, a 44T BWR is a 29" plus the highs are improved 44T SRAM 76" 44T BWR 88". I've ridden my latest Brompton the last 5 days since collecting and I'm riding on the flat in 5th 71" and have one higher gear. The issue is such a 44T BWR can never get up the higher nearby hills. For that you'd have to consider a manual-move double chainring, because after all a 29" is fairly low and you'd not need a front derailleur often. I'd reckon if you wanted to avoid a Schlumpf solution a very stiff 28T/44T crankset would suffice, assembled from a mountain bike type crankset. If you were to use a front derailleur then you can afford let the outer chainring get larger and so more chain movement, a 28T/50T would give you a decent high with a combined range of 18"-100".

    My SRAM plus 56T Mountain Drive, my assumed primary hill climber is 18"-97" with 12 evenly spaced gears.

    In the image below (click to enlarge) you see 3 different combinations, the SRAM with 56T chainring on a Schlumpf Mountain Drive, showing 12 evenly-spaced gears from the lowest to the highest, a 44T BWR which is what most new Bromptons buyers would get for hilly areas with 6 widely-spaced gears, not offering the same lowest not same highest as SRAM+MD, and what would happen if you did a manual-move 28T/50T on a BWR, clearly with overlapping gears which is a GOOD idea with manual-move, getting to the same range as a SRAM+MD.
    Bgearing.JPG

    Having only within the last week got a BWR, I'm pondering do I move to manual-move, not just a 50T but a 54T to make the bike faster as it would move my on-the-flat from the higher hub to the middle hub which is a tad more efficient and give me 2 higher gears, currently my 6th 44T is used for sprinting, plus it would if I ever got faced with the steepest hill a 54T/30T (22T is the max the Brompton chain tensioner can handle) a 20"-108" range.
    Last edited by NigelHealy; 12-17-11 at 12:23 PM.

  16. #16
    Senior Member NigelHealy's Avatar
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    Took my newest Brompton up the local hills today. 50 miles, 5000ft.

    Here how it is configured now


    http://s334.photobucket.com/albums/m...t=MVI_0417.mp4

  17. #17
    Senior Member NigelHealy's Avatar
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    Initial observations:
    • The BWR is able to attack a decent long gradient hill, but the issue is the "W" part - big jumps so picking a too-low or too-high gear, the net result is a slower average speed
    • The stock Brompton saddle is AGONY to me relative to a Brooks saddle, its hard in too many places.
    • The SON hub, why is something so expensive making me fall in love with it, bright when in the dark roads, low-down able to give good road debris definition, and no batteries to charge, and I simply ride it
    • not sure why I bought Ti frames, the new S6L seems light enough to me?

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    jur
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    Yeah I have tried those WTB Rocket saddles and I couldn't endure it for more than 30min.

    On my Swift I have a Tioga Spyder which I can't endure unless I ride hard. No pootling for more than an hour or it becomes agony. Still much better than the WTB though.
    My folding bike photo essays www.dekter.net/

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    Quote Originally Posted by NigelHealy View Post
    ahhh, the same Jerrysimon I take it over in BromptonTalk?
    Yep and on the pedelec and moulton forums

    Jerry
    Last edited by jerrysimon; 12-18-11 at 07:06 AM.

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    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Fizik Vitesse, I got thru Bromton worked well to get the saddle shoved back far enough,
    on a bike I got, which had a zero setback seatpost, where the B17 had me sitting on the
    rivet rails in back.

    and the Plastic top on the Fizik is weather resistant, wont absorb and stay wet
    if the bike has to be locked & left out.

  21. #21
    Senior Member NigelHealy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Fizik Vitesse, I got thru Bromton worked well .
    Mine didn't last, the nose peeled. I'm moving for sure over to Brooks, I own 3, but its just useful to push new kit to their limits to know where they are, you never know when a trip ends up longer than expected. I remember in 2007 I had a Brompton S2L-X, I was in a B&B east of Limerick, Ireland, and my wife was going to be visiting a family member "for an hour". I said I'd head off biking to somewhere west of Cork and ended up doing about 125miles. That is a little of why I'm leaning towards a BWR on a S6L-X, and should end up not needing a M2L-X, because its not that much more weight and you never know when a short trip might end up a long trip

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    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Mine didn't last, the nose peeled
    not unfamiliar with tape for cut repairs to the thin covering..

    The Brompton one went on my Koga, It has a suspension seat post, a Carradice
    Saddle bag keeps it from getting much abuse contact.

    I was thinking of having a cover , made of a sturdy stuff. local rubber Boat truck tarp stuff.

    saw a previous version with a leather cover, but not one to nick it off a customers bike..
    and It was the standard rail bend, which gets close to the shell at the front.
    do have a local leather worker to make a lace on cover as well..


    I put the Pro I got 30 years ago on my Brompton, a Fizik CP3 Vitesse on the Friday PL,
    its add on cover a Bladder from a 5L wine box, my favorite cheap saddle rain cover.

    B17 select did catch my eye, the undyed leather would get a different patina
    when absorbing a decent amount of Proofide, ...the key to my 30 year old saddle still looking good, back when Brooks was not a fashion statement in 7 different colors.

    Obviously IT gigs on the peninsula pay better than the jobs I could secure
    after the war machine manufacturing that My Father did left town, Vallejo,
    for US the southeast...
    Last edited by fietsbob; 12-18-11 at 03:47 PM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member NigelHealy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Obviously IT gigs on the peninsula pay better than the jobs I could secure
    after the war machine manufacturing that My Father did left town, Vallejo,
    for US the southeast...

    There's a hint in your words I'm funding Bromptons from well-paid IT jobs in the Peninsula? Not true. I've not really spent anything net in recent years on bikes.

    So go back to the '60's and to the UK and do your research in the poverty back then, I remember tin bath in front of coal fire, but let's not do the whole Monty Python sketch thing. Up to 1988 I'd been at school and doing manual laboring jobs and owned one bike, made up of parts I'd got in the sales over the previous 5 years. I remember one job, I biked 7 miles pre-rushhour to work in a card factory and getting very sore fingers stuffing greetings cards in boxes coming off a never-ending machine. Once I began work in 1988, which involved sitting at a desk and waiting for a VT100 terminal to come available to program on the IBM mainframe. Living 7 miles from my work, I saved up and bought a Dawes Super Galaxy in 1989 and a road bike in 1990, selling my earlier bike. I commuted daily to work for 7 years so they paid for themselves in lack of car use, then my work changed and more use of driving, so then bought Brompton in 2003 to shift from driving to bike/train/bike. It was a L6 (aka M6L), the folded package tended to fall over so I added a rack to make a M6R. I didn't like the Brompton's M6R weight and the short-wheel-base and upright position so bought a S2L-X in 2006, but then I missed the Touring Pannier so bought a M6R-X in 2007 and swapped the back-ends to make a M2L-X and a S6R-X, which did me fine for 3 years. In 2008 I sold the Dawes and the road bike and bought a Schlumpf, because a Brompton is a better touring bike than a Dawes when you factor the folding inside the tent and ability to use bus and trains, I figured a S6L-X/MD would be a good combination. The Schlumpf was eye-wateringly expensive, I paid about 400ukp for it in April 2008, but its reassuring its now 640ukp and I've hardly done any mileage on it due heavy use of M2L-X and then removing the MD to make a S6L-X for flat-windy commuting.

    I relocated to the Peninsula in 2008.

    In September this year I sold the 2003 Brompton, and then I bought the 2011 S6L/BWR/SON, pre the 2012 price increase, and my current plan is to sell the M2L-X once I confirm a S6L-X/BWR/SON is light enough to do what the M2L-X did. What I'm finding is the M2L-X, the 2speed isn't getting along with the very strong winds we get from the northwest and a S6L-X 6-speed was getting more use.

    My Christmas project is to rebuild the back wheel, have spokes have sprockets, and waiting on chain, it will get the Brompton saddle. When is best time of year to sell a Brompton? I was thinking April? I've got to remove M2R-X rack and wheel, rebuild its wheel, remove S6L/BWR/SON the wheels, rack, BB and crankset, remove the S6L-X wheels. Fit Schlumpf and racks and then wheels, to end up a S6L-X/SON/BWR, S6R/MD, M2L-X.

    When I combine all the bike expense in the last 3 years I've about broken-even, selling stuff from the previous 20 years, my extravagant spending is in 2006 and 2007.

    The Peninsula, its draw is its good climate and scenery, great for cycling and if you want to avoid driving for the commute, a decent train system between San Francisco and San Jose which loves Bromptons. The downside is high property costs and bad state schools which adds cost to get the education. I'm $3K/month worse off in the Peninsula than when back in the UK. The actual IT $ income isn't any higher here. Most of the folks I work with live in places like Dallas, Denver, Chicago, Boston, Philly, where its cheaper to live. Some hate where they live due to the climate, and some express envy to anyone living in the Peninsula. When was the last time the traffic in the Peninsula slowed by snow? Ice? There isn't many jobs here, in the last 42 months I've only worked 6 of those months in the Peninsula. Still, the airmiles let me visit UK where I can usually have a suitcase of bike parts going in either direction.
    Last edited by NigelHealy; 12-18-11 at 06:32 PM.

  24. #24
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    the self described "geek"label, thing in the yahoo brompton,
    had me guess , only a guess.

    A + ... folders don't need a spare bedroom rental to park several bikes in.
    makes tiny low(relatively) rent apartments work.

    I never got a job with air miles, McJobs don't do that .

    the boomers get to compete against each other, for 65 years,
    then poof! Their retirement funds get looted.

    small wonder more Vets are suicides than die in battle, Nam , and this recent fiasco..
    they come back then figure out it was all a Fraud.

    http://veteransforpeace.org
    Last edited by fietsbob; 12-27-11 at 12:23 PM.

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    Well finally got round to fitting my new Brooks B17 Special that santa gave me







    It certainly looks the business. Adds about 200grms over stock but I think it is worth it. I smothered top and bottom with proofide and left it over night before buffing the top. I could tell it had softened up a little afterwards. Just been out for a four mile ride and so far so good. I found I slipped back and forward on it a little but overall it felt ok especially if I put my weight on the back part of the saddle.

    Hopefully my daily five mile each way commute will break it in with not too much pain.

    Regards

    Jerry

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