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Old 02-02-12, 09:52 PM   #1
Lord Farkward
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Please help: 20" vs 26", C-brake vs disc brakes (ie Dash P18/X20 vs Cadenza)

Hello all,

Long time reader, finally registered so I can ask a few q's to pick your brains.

Very simply put, the folder bug has caught me when I was looking to buy a bike (small apartment, and I need foldable so that I can bring the bike on trains), and now I can't decide if I should go for a Dash or Cadenza.

Pro's
Dash: Small (though doesn't fold as small as other folders), light, fast
Cadenza: Full sized, flexible, disc brakes

Con's
Dash: Can only use 406 wheels, C-brakes
Cadenza: Not as good looking, heavier

I'm actually already KIND OF leaning towards the Dash since it's faster and lighter (although I must say 12kg for Cadenza is very impressive also), but I'm still quite worried that its smaller wheels will not be as comfortable. They're already definitely not as flexible as the Cadenza as I can only use thin tires for the Dash, while I can use fatter tyres for Cadenza for when I do a little off-road and touring.

So basically what I'm asking is:
1) Is 20" really that big of a problem, especially for a little off-roading? The fact that I should avoid potholes with the Dash already puts me off a bit, whereas with the Cadenza's 26" wheels it's going to be "safer"... or is it not?
2) Are disc brakes that much better than C-brakes? They look cool, for sure, but is it more of a personal preference rather than real statistical benefits when people prefer disc brakes over C-brakes?

Your helpful answers will assist me in deciding if I will pull the tigger on the Dash, which is my first choice, or that I should just forget about it and go for the more flexible (and cheaper) Cadenza.

Appreciate all replies in advance!!
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Old 02-02-12, 10:34 PM   #2
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Since you mentioned train commute, then I would say the 20" wheels would be better due to fold size.

As for brakes, in my opinion, disc brakes are better than "V" brakes, but the problem with it for folders that I can think of, is that you might bend the rotors during the folding process. Otherwise, I think it's better in everyway.
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Old 02-02-12, 10:42 PM   #3
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What about a tool-less folding 20"? Like a Dahon Mu or Tern Link/Verge. I think you'll find that lockjaw system annoying if you're routinely folding the bike.
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Old 02-02-12, 10:46 PM   #4
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What about a tool-less folding 20"? Like a Dahon Mu or Tern Link/Verge. I think you'll find that lockjaw system annoying if you're routinely folding the bike.
I agree.
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Old 02-03-12, 12:41 AM   #5
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Thanks for the suggestions so far. I chose the jawlock models because 1) they seem to be lighter and 2) reviews thus far seem to be quite good, especially the one on the P18/X20 where the reviews say they're as good as being fixed frames. Plus I don't think I'll be folding THAT often, probably will only need to fold 20% of my trips.

Is it possible to add disc brake on the Dash?
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Old 02-03-12, 12:50 AM   #6
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Is it possible to add disc brake on the Dash?
There is this.
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Old 02-03-12, 03:11 AM   #7
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There is this.
Awesome, thanks!

Then I guess I have the disc brake "issue" sorted.

So... is 20" (with thin tyres to boot) a bad idea for overseas cycling trips (but with minimal off-road)?
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Old 02-03-12, 09:56 AM   #8
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where in the world do you find a Cadenza or even more rare a Dash18 ?
Both models never got imported into the US in 2011 and most Cadenza got sold out in 2010 .....
there asre a few Matrix left from 2010 ....
http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/current/matrix.htm
but not many and not in all sizes ( albeit for a very good deal money wise )

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Old 02-03-12, 10:06 AM   #9
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I got a Cadenza 8 in 2008 and have ridden it almost every day since. I think I have folded it twice.
Cadenza is a nice city bike, a bit on the heavy side but smooth and comfortable. I have fitted snow studs and used it in all weathers. The versatile transmission and brake options mean that there are very few comparable bikes (but more now than in 2008).
It folds quite wide so I dont think it works as a space saver unless your space is short and wide.
Lockjaw is good if you set it up well but needs a tool. It may wear out with twice-daily commuter use; I wore out one of the tightening eccentic bolts just from occasional checking but was able to fit a replacement (of higher quality) very easily.

I would not chose it as a rail commute bike or to store inside an office or tiny apartment.
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Old 02-03-12, 11:13 AM   #10
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where in the world do you find a Cadenza or even more rare a Dash18 ?
Both models never got imported into the US in 2011 and most Cadenza got sold out in 2010 .....
Since the OP used kg in their first post, I'm gonna guess they aren't in the US.
Did any Dash models come into the US Thor?
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Old 02-03-12, 11:52 PM   #11
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Hi Thor and Nightdiver - I'm from Hong Kong, and we have a China's version of the Cadenza here (called Bravo). It's also relatively easy to find a Dash

Thanks Michael for your first hand accounts of the Cadenza. You have confirmed my worries about it being too big still despite being a foldable, thanks. But regarding the lockjaw mechanism - is it really wearable? I was under the impression that it's so robust and stiff that it's pretty much as good as a fixed frame. Hmm maybe I should do more research there

Thanks for all the input thus far, keep them coming
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Old 02-04-12, 01:13 AM   #12
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The issues with the lockjaw aren't when it is closed, but rather the opening and closing of the mechanism. It is also a rather fickle mechanism that needs periodic adjustments. If you were to adjust it properly, close it, then just ride the bike like a non-folding bike (never opening and closing) it would be fantastic. But then you defeat the purpose of having a folder. I think the lockjaw tech just never made it past the beta stage.
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Old 02-04-12, 03:16 AM   #13
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The issues with the lockjaw aren't when it is closed, but rather the opening and closing of the mechanism. It is also a rather fickle mechanism that needs periodic adjustments. If you were to adjust it properly, close it, then just ride the bike like a non-folding bike (never opening and closing) it would be fantastic. But then you defeat the purpose of having a folder. I think the lockjaw tech just never made it past the beta stage.

Interesting. Is that your personal experience, or are there also articles/reviews suggesting the same? Thanks!
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Old 02-04-12, 11:07 AM   #14
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For reviews of hard use of the Cadenza see Chris Bell and and Velovison.
Neither of these is a daily fold use, just lots of hard riding with occasional fold.
Chris does corrections and alignment of poorly manufactured lockjaws.
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Old 02-05-12, 05:28 PM   #15
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For reviews of hard use of the Cadenza see Chris Bell and and Velovison.
Neither of these is a daily fold use, just lots of hard riding with occasional fold.
Chris does corrections and alignment of poorly manufactured lockjaws.
Thanks for the links!
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