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  1. #1
    Fat Guy on a Little Bike KonAaron Snake's Avatar
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    Moulton Question

    Hi folks - my first post to this section. I request your advice, I've been casually checking out Moultons and don't have a sense of their value. I want to make sure the asking price is reasonable and that I can recoup the losses should this not work out. Your advice and evaluations are appreciated.

    I'm new to Moultons and their pricing...this seems high, but I don't really know. What do these typically sell for?

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/2914975646.html

    Alex Moulton Spaceframe Beauty - $1900 (petaluma)
    Date: 2012-03-24, 5:38PM PDT
    Reply to: rf3j8-2914975646@sale.craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]


    As the pictures document, this is a pretty damn-near pristine Moulton APB 9-speed.

    I bought it about five years ago from the original owner; he purchased it in the U.K., to his specifications.
    I forget the exact year of manufacture (2000, I think) , but I'll root around in my papers. . .

    This is not the "separable" model, nor the AM model which uses arcane 17" wheels, or some such. These are common 20"
    sized wheels and tires (406) which are used by Dahon, Bike Friday, recumbents. . . The wheelset is however, pretty trick:
    Aerospoke--I'll let you google/price what these wheels alone cost!

    I had another Moulton which I rode; I bought this one for my wife. . . but she never rides it, hence the sale.

    Specifics:
    --"One size fits (nearly) all." It is adjusted now for my six feet. . . My wife is 5'-0" and she can comfortably ride it too.
    --Reynolds 531 "Designer Select" tubing.
    --9-speed SRAM derailleur with twist grip shifting. (Front derailleur is only there as a 'chain keeper': to prevent the chain from falling off.)
    --Titanium flat--well, they do have a very slight (made that way) bend in them--handlebars.
    --Jeffrey Richman fillet brazed stem.
    --Brand new Brooks B17 black saddle.
    --Front and rear racks (the front has a little wear since it came off my older Moulton).
    --The matching rear bag shown in some of the pics is not included in the base price (We can talk about it, but I know this would fetch a pretty penny on eBay).
    --Front and rear suspension, of course.
    --Beautiful deep purplish-blue paint job.
    --Tektro V-brakes and levers.
    --Cane Creek barends.
    --Kickstand.
    --Flat pedals (not pictured).
    --A bell!
























    * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

    image 0

  2. #2
    jur
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    $1900 for all that seems a bargain!
    My folding bike photo essays www.dekter.net/

  3. #3
    Eschew Obfuscation SesameCrunch's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure it's a great deal. I think BruceMetras on these forums has been selling new 9 speed Moulton TSRs for low $2k. Won't have the racks and cool wheels, but won't be 15 years old either. You may want to send him a private MSG to check.

  4. #4
    Fat Guy on a Little Bike KonAaron Snake's Avatar
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    I've done a little reading and these APBs seem to be considered lower end Moultons and worth a lot less.

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    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    I would think that being non separable is a major drawback.

    BTW, anybody knows anything about these wheels? Are they significantly lighter? Are they as strong and safe as the stock wheels?
    Happier than a camel on wednesday.

  6. #6
    jur
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    I was once interested in these wheels and tried to get something out of these guys, but never got a response. My current take on them is when the rim is worn you have some very expensive junk on your hands. Unless they can refurbish them, but I don't know if they do.

    I bought my and Connie's APBs (which were new old stock) for about $1600 each. I think these APBs, which are the later ones, are much nicer than the earlier ones (such as my green one). Reynolds tubing, much better quality brazing and welding, some frame refinements... The separability is only worth a small extra amount if you buy one new. This particular example has, besides front and rear rack (worth several $100), Ti bars, upgraded brakes and gearing and drivetrain, Brooks saddle... the list is rather long; effectively it is an APB frame only plus all the standard entry bits replaced with high end stuff. Most certainly worth the $1900 and then some. The TSR does not have Reynolds tubing and the stainless steel suspension links. The only (debatable) advantage of the TSR is that the rear suspension joint includes the bottom bracket. I haven't ridden a TSR so can't say from experience it would be a significant difference.

    [correction: brakes appear to be standard]
    Last edited by jur; 03-26-12 at 01:04 AM.
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  7. #7
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    My TSR30 uses Reynolds 525 tubing and appears to have SS suspension links on the forks.

  8. #8
    jur
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    OK, I stand corrected... I was merely repeating what the local Moulton once told me... but I am told the inner disc parts which are welded to the fork stirrup are not stainless, that they tend to rust... again I am repeating what I read/heard...
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  9. #9
    Fat Guy on a Little Bike KonAaron Snake's Avatar
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    Jur - thanks for your valuable input, it is a lot to think about. My gut says a 12 year old used bike, even with significant upgrades, is worth less than one new and the bottom line is that I just don't know enough to feel comfortable without a lot more feedback. I'm also not especially impressed by using Reynolds 531 in the year 2000...steels have come a long way since 531, though the small size of this bike means the flex probably wouldn't be as bad.

    I'm also nervous about the sizing...and think it might be the kind of bike you try before the buy.
    Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 03-26-12 at 06:34 AM.

  10. #10
    tcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamtsa View Post
    I would think that being non separable is a major drawback.
    Of course the vast majority of bikes in the world don't fold or separate. In 27 years of Moulton ownership I think I've taken my apart maybe a half-dozen times, so it's very much a case of YMMV.

    Moultons are probably the worst "folding" bikes ever, since they don't, in fact, fold, or come apart that quickly, or leave one with particularly small pieces. Remember here that Dr. Moulton didn't set out to make a folding bike, he didn't want his bike to be a folder and in fact has lamented the compromises necessary to create a good folding bike. Far more non-separable Moultons have been made than demountable ones over the last 50 years.

    If I just wanted a separable bike, I'd probably go with a std. bike with S&S couplers or a Ritchey Breakaway. The Moulton is about something different.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  11. #11
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    It seems a decent deal for a specific person that wants something that looks cool, is comfortable to ride, and doesn't care about weight.
    Those Aerospokes look cool but they weigh a lot http://www.whenbigboystri.com/wheel_weights.htm
    The saddle is very comfy from what I read online, but again heavy.

    Not sure what this bike cost when new but an APB14 was around $2000 in 1997.
    http://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/B...Plus&Type=bike
    Personally, I don't think those extra parts are worth over a decade of depreciation.
    I'd put my $2000 into a new TSR2 and then mod it with more modern and lighter parts.

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    I use and fold/split my TSR2 every time I cycle it to work, mostly in the summer months.

    I decided to go for a new one as not much more expensive than second hand APBs and the latest ones tend to have all the wringles ironed out of them now. The early APBs where not 531 and quite heavy.



    Shown split in my office with a light weight electric assist fitted.



    Not a Brompton but with full suspension it is more comfortable to ride. Brompton shown again in my office also with a light weight electric assist fitted.



    Regards

    Jerry
    Last edited by jerrysimon; 03-26-12 at 08:05 AM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jur View Post
    OK, I stand corrected... I was merely repeating what the local Moulton once told me... but I am told the inner disc parts which are welded to the fork stirrup are not stainless, that they tend to rust... again I am repeating what I read/heard...
    If you are referring to the tips of the fork, yes, they are not stainless (TSR 27) and tend to rust. Regardless of the material, I found that I need to open the links and clean once in a while, otherwise the bike develop squeak because of dust dirt that gets in.

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrysimon View Post
    I use and fold/split my TSR2 every time I cycle it to work, mostly in the summer months.
    Same here. Unsplit/Split on each ride. Otherwise they would not fit in my car.
    Happier than a camel on wednesday.

  14. #14
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    CL list in Cal, and OP on other coast, does create a need to ship, too..
    before the test ride.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
    I'm also not especially impressed by using Reynolds 531 in the year 2000...steels have come a long way since 531, though the small size of this bike means the flex probably wouldn't be as bad.
    With a spaceframe, flex is non-existent in any case.

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    Considering a TSR-27 goes for 1,400 British Pound/2,200 USD in the UK and if you find someone going over the pond to bring it back for you there is also VAT (15%?) refunded... I think $1,900 is a bit much to ask.

  17. #17
    Fat Guy on a Little Bike KonAaron Snake's Avatar
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    Thanks folks...

    What do people think is a fair offer? I'm thinking along the lines of $1200.

  18. #18
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Price haggling it's between seller and buyer ..
    maybe you would like ordering a New
    one for trans atlantic shipping, rather than transcontinental..

    may already be sold to a local buyer.. who picked it up, at the house and paid cash.

  19. #19
    jur
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    That Moulton clearly demonstrates the problem with upgrades - I have seen it with cars too - upgrades do not confer extra value to a basic sale item. Such as in this bike, the extra value added due to extensive upgrades seems to count for nought in the opinions expressed here. That seller would be far better off parting it out, putting on the most basic crap and selling that as a Moulton APB, and then selling the wheels, saddle, drivetrain etc off separately.
    My folding bike photo essays www.dekter.net/

  20. #20
    Fat Guy on a Little Bike KonAaron Snake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jur View Post
    That Moulton clearly demonstrates the problem with upgrades - I have seen it with cars too - upgrades do not confer extra value to a basic sale item. Such as in this bike, the extra value added due to extensive upgrades seems to count for nought in the opinions expressed here. That seller would be far better off parting it out, putting on the most basic crap and selling that as a Moulton APB, and then selling the wheels, saddle, drivetrain etc off separately.
    Parting out almost always results in more cash.

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    Speed Uno
    Dawes Kingpin 2speed

  22. #22
    Fat Guy on a Little Bike KonAaron Snake's Avatar
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    Thanks for the help all. I think I have to just acclimate myself to these going for high prices. I keep hoping a deal will come up, but that might be a fantasy for a Spaceframe. There's an APB on UK eBay now, and I'm hoping the price stays low...at worst it might set a value for me to negotiate more confidently on the one in LA.

    I really appreciate how helpful you've all been.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jur View Post
    OK, I stand corrected... I was merely repeating what the local Moulton once told me
    And how is the good Mr Kater?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
    Thanks for the help all. I think I have to just acclimate myself to these going for high prices. I keep hoping a deal will come up, but that might be a fantasy for a Spaceframe. There's an APB on UK eBay now, and I'm hoping the price stays low...at worst it might set a value for me to negotiate more confidently on the one in LA.

    I really appreciate how helpful you've all been.
    If you're shopping worldwide, there is a 7speed 2006 TSR that just came up with a sale price set at $750 on the Moulton Yahoo list...

  25. #25
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    A large proportion of classic Moulton's that come onto the market worldwide get snapped up by the mighty yen to supply the insatiable Moulton market in Japan.
    Jetstream P11 ; iXi

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