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  1. #1
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    ISO 406 v. ISO 451

    I just bought a standard English BB equipped Hercules folder with "85-02" stamped on the 28 hole Sturmey AW rear hub, bike is very good cosmetically and nearly complete save for the fenders, which if I had to guess, were removed to accommodate large diameter BMX tires. Given the current lack of clearance issues, would any of you care to share your experiences with attempting to mount larger diameter recumbent wheels on similar low-end folders (Auto-Mini, Raleigh, Hawk, etc.?) I'm interested in improving ride quality, weight savings, lower rolling resistance...info much appreciated, probably should be a sticky.

  2. #2
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Good luck on that , you will be the expert on that , soon enough.

    451 is the Pocket Rocket BiFri wheel..
    Brompton also uses the 28 hole sturmey hub
    though yours may use a wider axle.. IDK.

  3. #3
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    I just put a mini BMX wheel set on a Dawes Kingpin. It is a 451 wheels so I could still use the stock brakes. I like the 451 because they are lighter and seem to be quicker. I had a Raleigh that had a SA 2 speed kickback hub with 451 rims. I plan to have my Sram Automatix 2 speed built up on a 451 rim.

    Speed Uno
    Dawes Kingpin 2speed

  4. #4
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    406 is easier to find tires and rims for, 451 is typically narrower and you don't have as many rim or tire choices.

    I run both depending on the bike.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

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  5. #5
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    well, not really, but

    Quote Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
    406 is easier to find tires and rims for, 451 is typically narrower and you don't have as many rim or tire choices.
    I am finding at least 6 good rim options via Google, one of which is readily available in 28 hole drilling if I want to keep my old steel-body AW hub. What I'm curious about is for those of you have fitted both sizes on the same frame, how different is the rolling diameter of the mounted tires? I have some really nice short-reach brakes that are reversible for rear mounting, bottom pull, and I could just as easily scab together some old Schwinn alloy calipers of just about any imaginable length from an old parts bin, if I end up with a need for longer brake reach...keep in mind I have already considered the lightweight BMX wheel option, but again, I do want a multi-speed hub.

    While on the subject of multi-speeds, has anyone tried an E-type compact derailleur successfully on a frame that was designed for a single front ring? The thought crossed my mind when I pepped out the chainguard mounting bracket...

  6. #6
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Since I use my folders for commuting/touring I opt for the more common size (406, 32 or 36 hole) to increase my chances of being able to fix/replace my tires/spokes/rims in an emergency. If your Hercules is going to be used for pleasure rides, then go the simpler route and get a 451 28-hole rim.
    Last edited by BassNotBass; 05-29-12 at 09:58 PM.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  7. #7
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    Kingpin002.jpg

    Here's mine with 451 tyres and a few modern parts.

  8. #8
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    When I built my folding bike 30 yrs. ago, I based it loosely on the Raleigh 20. I used the 406 rims because the BMX tires seemed to be readily available and a couple looked pretty good. I originally used a caliper brake. After fooling around with it for a while and not being able to get much braking action out of it, I broke out the torch and mounted cantilever brakes. They work fine. Since I was interested in riding it as a substitute road bike, I originally put 10 spds on it. That has been expanded over the years. It has gone from a 120 mm rear hub to a 135, from 5 rear to 9 and from 2 front to 3. It weighs a ton because I built it with tubing left over from tandem and triple projects, but it has a very low c.g. and is stiff as he!!. These days it gets used when I take a car into the shop. I pull it out of the trunk and reassemble it and ride home.

    These days the smallest, fastest tires available in 406 that I have are Conti SportContact 20x1.25. I am currently using some Haro 20x1.5. The 451 rims have narrower, probably faster tires available, but at my weight, I need a little give somewhere, and the tires are the only place I can get it.

  9. #9
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    If thin is your thing then you could opt for Schwalbe 23-406 (.90" X 20") which are very high quality tires with 127 tpi casing and pressure range of 100-160 psi. But at that size and pressure I'm sure the ride would be harsh enough to really wear on you over long distances.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  10. #10
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    All very good tips, thank you for your responses; still looking for rolling diameters and before and after fitment pics. I guess I'll start with the tire swap, and post my own. 23x406 is gonna lower the bike another inch to begin with, and I doubt the tire is wide enough for the existing hoops, so I'm gonna shop a bit wider, ride it for a while, then maybe build up some 451's if I'm still into the bike at that point. If I do keep the current setup, I can probably fetch a good price for the short-reach bottom-pull calipers in the FS thread...

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    Starting out with Maxxis Overdrive Elites from UCW, 20x1.15, before & after pics and ride reviews coming soon...

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