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Old 06-29-12, 10:57 PM   #1
Aquakitty
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Chromoly multi-speed folders for under 1k?

There seems to be very few if any high quality new steel folders out there in this price range (I know they can be had used). The market is swamped with low priced aluminium folders. I can't even find any cheap hi-ten models (not counting the Raleigh Twenty). I am curious as to what might be out there NEW in the under $1000 price range, and not a single speed . I saw a sale on Dahon Speed TR's at one point for around $800. I don't know if they make them any more as the selection seems non-existant and at least according to their forum they are now Tern (who seems to also only make aluminium bikes). Anyone know of any? So far I have found...

Bike Friday Companion 16 - $995 MSRP


Big selection!

Thanks for any info.
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Old 06-29-12, 11:19 PM   #2
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Dahon is still around, and they offer a couple cro-mo bikes, the Speed P8 and Speed TR. Go to dahonbikes.com.
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Old 06-30-12, 06:40 AM   #3
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The current USA (and Canada?) Dahon Speed series (Uno, D7 & P8) are 4130 chromoly. I believe all Speed models have been 4130 chromoly except the 2009 and later Speed Pro. The current Boardwalk S1 is high tensile steel. But other Boardwalk models are 4130 chromoly.

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Old 06-30-12, 06:47 AM   #4
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There are two Speed TR on ebay right now.
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Old 06-30-12, 07:50 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Aquakitty View Post
I can't even find any cheap hi-ten models...
Dahon Eco C6

Quote:
I don't know if they make them any more as the selection seems non-existant and at least according to their forum they are now Tern (who seems to also only make aluminium bikes).
They're still Dahon and they still make steel framed folders. Due to some stuff that doesn't need to be rehashed here, you want:

www.dahonbikes.com
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Old 07-01-12, 03:27 AM   #6
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Thanks all, ya that sums up what I have found pretty much. The huge post on the forum confused me a bit.

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Dahon Eco C6



They're still Dahon and they still make steel framed folders. Due to some stuff that doesn't need to be rehashed here, you want:

www.dahonbikes.com
Ah that explains it, I was wondering what the heck was up with their website!
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Old 07-01-12, 07:08 PM   #7
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The Bike Friday is a very nice bike. Also, it comes in three different frame
sizes - the Dahon's just one - and is likely more adjustable within each size.

I know, I know, we own four Fridays, but we have also owned three Dahon's.

Lou
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Old 07-01-12, 07:36 PM   #8
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Where are you located in BC?
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Old 07-01-12, 10:07 PM   #9
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The Bike Friday is a very nice bike. Also, it comes in three different frame
sizes - the Dahon's just one - and is likely more adjustable within each size.
Lou
... and more color choices, customization options and spare part availability.
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Old 07-02-12, 01:50 AM   #10
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Since BiFri uses standard parts , later upgrades are possible..
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Old 07-03-12, 01:44 AM   #11
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Where are you located in BC?

Vernon.

I think I am just going ahead with my R20 custom builds. Bike Fridays won't work for me. They are too long when they fold. I have a trailer for touring that doubles as a shipping crate. The Bike Friday suitcase is wider than what I am using. However, a Raleigh Twenty fits perfectly in it, and from doing the math the Dahons would fit as well. Long story but I have been going back and forth on which way to go with my folder touring projects. Time is going too fast!
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Old 07-03-12, 10:18 AM   #12
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Vernon.

I think I am just going ahead with my R20 custom builds. Bike Fridays won't work for me. They are too long when they fold. I have a trailer for touring that doubles as a shipping crate. The Bike Friday suitcase is wider than what I am using. However, a Raleigh Twenty fits perfectly in it, and from doing the math the Dahons would fit as well. Long story but I have been going back and forth on which way to go with my folder touring projects. Time is going too fast!
If I remember correctly, you have welding and other framebuilding skills.

One thing you might consider with the R20 + trailer is its weight with the suitcase. The ubiquitous 50-pound luggage limit -- some low-cost European airlines might use 20 KGs! -- could be an issue.

Good luck with the project!
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Old 07-03-12, 10:51 AM   #13
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dont want to start a religious war here, but why steel ? Cause some QPB employees in the subcategory Surly .. are having cute stickers : STeel is real ? ... Nothing against the guys :-) They just follow a interesting marketing plan to sell their wares.

Interested why ?

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Old 07-03-12, 11:10 AM   #14
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I got 2 second hand Bromptons , sequentially, for that, resold one, [95?] Mk2 T3
and so now I have 1 M3L .. nearly new, bought for under a K$
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Old 07-03-12, 11:24 AM   #15
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dont want to start a religious war here, but why steel ? Cause some QPB employees in the subcategory Surly .. are having cute stickers : STeel is real ? ... Nothing against the guys :-) They just follow a interesting marketing plan to sell their wares.

Interested why ?

Thor
From another thread, she has some framebuilding skills and she wants to make modifications that lend itself to steel frames. But my memory is (always) fuzzy.
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Old 07-03-12, 08:21 PM   #16
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From another thread, she has some framebuilding skills and she wants to make modifications that lend itself to steel frames. But my memory is (always) fuzzy.
ohh ... ok that would indeed be a reason .... valid than ..lol
of course it would be cool to find the perfect bike without needed mods ....lol
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Old 07-04-12, 10:34 PM   #17
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dont want to start a religious war here, but why steel ? Cause some QPB employees in the subcategory Surly .. are having cute stickers : STeel is real ? ... Nothing against the guys :-) They just follow a interesting marketing plan to sell their wares.

Interested why ?

Thor
For me it's the more forgiving ride in most steel...my Xtracycle not-with-standing (it's longer wheelbase makes the harsher aluminum frame I used more bearable),and the difference between the slightly more flexy steel and the uberly harshness of most aluminum means the difference between being physically able to ride or not,having semi-serious spinal injuries...maybe that's why lots of people feel-"steel is real"? More forgiving ride,plus steel generally lets you know much sooner if there's a major problem coming,plus one can generally get weld repair work done cheaper and many more places,then there's the whole time frame thing...how long has man been working with steel (especially for bikes) vs the short time we've meddled (pun intended ) with aluminum? I'll take my steel anyday,thankyouverymuch (unless riding my Xtracycle,which is like a sode can...aluminum ) My 2 cents,doesn't make it right,wrong or definitive,just my 2 cents
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Old 07-05-12, 06:38 AM   #18
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then there's the whole time frame thing...how long has man been working with steel (especially for bikes) vs the short time we've meddled (pun intended ) with aluminum?
Pfffft. Steel is a new-comer. Think of the experience humans have with wood.
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Old 07-05-12, 12:06 PM   #19
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Bike friday may even sell you a Frame and fork, etc, bare steel ,
bypassing the powdercoat booth..

as they jig their braze ons, for efficiency,
If you want to add something elsewhere, that may be the way to go..

I have a PocketLlama, not a Tikit.. [the Brommy fills that niche]

both steel..

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Old 07-05-12, 12:56 PM   #20
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Pfffft. Steel is a new-comer. Think of the experience humans have with wood.
The wood bike is pretty cool in its fabrication but 11.25mph is a pretty lame speed record.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSEn...eature=related
Heck, maybe I should make a concrete and gummy bear bicycle and claim the speed record for that.

Anyway, if you don't mind the weight, steel is a great frame to ride.
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Old 07-05-12, 01:52 PM   #21
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Pfffft. Steel is a new-comer. Think of the experience humans have with wood.
LOL,yeah,good point BUT...think of the ramifications of a 5' or bigger drop at speed on a wooden framed bike (not that I would do it on either,being a "disabled cyclist",mind you )
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Old 07-05-12, 04:11 PM   #22
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For me it's the more forgiving ride in most steel...my Xtracycle not-with-standing (it's longer wheelbase makes the harsher aluminum frame I used more bearable),and the difference between the slightly more flexy steel and the uberly harshness of most aluminum means the difference between being physically able to ride or not,having semi-serious spinal injuries...maybe that's why lots of people feel-"steel is real"? More forgiving ride,plus steel generally lets you know much sooner if there's a major problem coming,plus one can generally get weld repair work done cheaper and many more places,then there's the whole time frame thing...how long has man been working with steel (especially for bikes) vs the short time we've meddled (pun intended ) with aluminum? I'll take my steel anyday,thankyouverymuch (unless riding my Xtracycle,which is like a sode can...aluminum ) My 2 cents,doesn't make it right,wrong or definitive,just my 2 cents
In the bike business, you either need special gimmicks or myths to propagate beliefs so you can market a product with the highest asking price that people can justify paying. Since steel bikes aren't new and the process and materials relatively perfected, it's really difficult to ask a premium against other exotic materials like carbon, titanium, wood, bamboo or hydro-formed aluminum unless you have a reason for it. The reason is vertical compliance-- basically what people attribute to what steel bikes today ride like.

First of all, let's be clear that stiffness of the bike frame is not only attributed to the bike material, but rather than what the bike frame is designed to do. But how many people actually buy a bike designed specifically to do the job you actually use it for? Let's be really honest. A lot of people bought a lot of high performance bikes which happened to be made of aluminum. The premise of a high performance racing or go fast bike makes performance a high priority. How's that achieved? More stiffness to transfer the pedal power to the wheel and since most races don't last very long, comfort in terms of vertical compliance isn't always in the minds of the designer. What comfort when some races don't even last more than 90 mins. But then, the same frames are then used by mortal people like us as commuter, touring and errands bikes. Mountain bikes share the same cause too as they are designed to be stiff and tough to meet the demands of off-road trail riding, drops etc.. Mountain bikes are comfortable to ride on trails as most of the cushioning are done with the soft ground. It's a akin to running as well. There is a good reason why running on the trails is "softer and more comfortable" compared to running on asphalt. But then, some people took their mountain bikes and turn into an xtracycles, commuter and errands bikes. Most of these bikes were made with aluminum. So the blame then goes to the frame material. Some companies I believe exploit these myths then and come back to sell new wares under a special sticker name. What's important is buying a bicycle designed specifically for the job you want to it to do for you, and not based solely on frame material. But it's hard when people these days buy based on brand and then myth.

Did you know that hydro-forming, a relatively new process that shapes aluminum tubes so the designer can tailor vertical compliance (the comfort level) and lateral stiffness with better finesse these days? Some of these hydro-formed aluminum frames not only ride smooth and well, they are also light or lighter than the bling bling cutie sticker carbon frame that is heavier. But you know, people then buy into myths about carbon frames too.

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Old 07-05-12, 05:52 PM   #23
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"Steel is real cutie" sticker is no different than a coach bag bought at an outlet mall that is priced at a premium but were made with lesser quality materials compared to a Coach bag bought at a high end retail shop -- in the name of maximizing profit margins!
In the bike business, you either need special gimmicks or myths to propagate beliefs so you can market a product with the highest asking price that people can justify paying. Since steel bikes aren't new and the process and materials relatively perfected, it's really difficult to ask a premium against other exotic materials like carbon, titanium, wood, bamboo or hydro-formed aluminum unless you have a reason for it. The reason is vertical compliance-- basically what people attribute to what steel bikes today ride like.

First of all, let's be clear that stiffness of the bike frame is not only attributed to the bike material, but rather than what the bike frame is designed to do. But how many people actually buy a bike designed specifically to do the job you actually use it for? Let's be really honest. A lot of people bought a lot of high performance bikes which happened to be made of aluminum. The premise of a high performance racing or go fast bike makes performance a high priority. How's that achieved? More stiffness to transfer the pedal power to the wheel and since most races don't last very long, comfort in terms of vertical compliance isn't always in the minds of the designer. What comfort when some races don't even last more than 90 mins. But then, the same frames are then used by mortal people like us as commuter, touring and errands bikes. Mountain bikes share the same cause too as they are designed to be stiff and tough to meet the demands of off-road trail riding, drops etc.. Mountain bikes are comfortable to ride on trails as most of the cushioning are done with the soft ground. It's a akin to running as well. There is a good reason why running on the trails is "softer and more comfortable" compared to running on asphalt. But then, some people took their mountain bikes and turn into an xtracycles, commuter and errands bikes. Most of these bikes were made with aluminum. So the blame then goes to the frame material. Some companies I believe exploit these myths then and come back to sell new wares under a special sticker name. What's important is buying a bicycle designed specifically for the job you want to it to do for you. But it's hard when people these days buy based on Brand and then myth.

Did you know that hydro-forming, a relatively new process that shapes aluminum tubes so the designer can tailor vertical compliance (the comfort level) and lateral stiffness with better finesse these days? Some of these hydro-formed aluminum frames not only ride smooth and well, they are also light or ligher than the bling bling cutie sticker carbon frame that is heavier. But you know, people then buy into myths about carbon frames too.

You should buy a bike solely based on

1, What purpose you are going to be using it mainly for
2, Price range you can afford
3, Bike fit
4, Dealer support
5, Frame quality and construction level and components level

As you know, I have 2 steel bikes, 1 carbon and 1 stiff aluminum. All bikes fit me perfectly, but each ride differently of course but really nothing special. In the end, they are ride relatively comfortable because of the perfect fit.
Not everyone is made to work with all frames, but do not discount the new aluminum frames. As you know, Cannondale is one company that makes both aluminum and carbon frames. If aluminum is so bad, why are their AL bikes selling with the exception of their touring model. In this case, I think the Steel is real movement made the difference here mainly in the marketing race.
Sigh...here we go again There's one in every damn group,isn't there? OK,lets straighten this out before you give yourself a coranary,Brother...

For the record: I simply stated my opnion,which is based soley on my personaly experience,which only includes the bikes/frames that I have ever personally ridden for myself,and even then,I did not insinuate whether or not they rode good or like crap for anyone other than for my ownself and person. OF THE BIKES I HAVE PERSONALLY RIDDEN: I have ridden cheap steel bikes that rode more harshly than the aluminum framed bikes THAT I HAVE PERSONALLY RIDDEN-or at least they felt so to my personal bum as I myself rode them,but I have never PERSONALLY ridden an aluminum framed bike that was as forgiving on the rough trails/roads as a quality steel bike (read: dept store bike or sub-budget priced bike). I did not at any time say or insinuate that they do not exist,just that I have not personally ridden them. I have ridden more than my fair share of different bikes-this being an opinion soley of and from myself and nothing more or less,both belonging to myself and to others in my riding years (about 35 short years now),but certainly not anything that anyone would consider an excessive amount,or an amount that would quantify myself an expert by any measure of the word in anyones vocabulary. The only thing I consider myself an expert in,as it pertains to bicycles,is what works best for ME personally myself,and I.

I did not at any time here,present or past,give indication that anything that I was saying was right or wrong for anyone other than myself (actually,I said "my 2 cents,doesn't make it right or wrong...",if you had actually read it...),nor have I ever,anywhere online or in person or by mail (snail or e) tell anyone at any time that they should ride this or that-of any frame material-because it was better than any other material. I have not,nor have I ever claimed to be an end-all/be-all expert on frame design,material or construction by any intent or understanding,nor will I ever,as stated,I simply stated the facts of what works for me personally myeslf and I,and fully admit and disclaim that it's entirely possible that there are other frame materials that would work for myself,I,because I have not sampled every bike on the market,here or abroad by any means or understanding of the word. I also have never said,hinted at,or otherwise insinuated to be knowledgable by any standards on the brand of Cannondale or why,if or why not their products sell,do not sell,or otherwise ride harshly as compared to any other bicycle or not.

Furthermore and most assuredly,I add to this that I will most likely never be considered an expert on many subjects at any time anywhere,and I can most certainly say that I will never pretend,act,or assume to portray one on TV. I am a simple country man,living in the city for now,I have ridden lots of bibcyles (again,I profess that this term,"lots of bicycles" is a relative term and subject to opinion) considering the number and amount that I have owned personally,myself,that didn't belong to anyone other than myself,except those that are here-to and from refered to as "bicycles belonging to others".

I care not one bit how many,or what type,genre' or style of bicycles you own-you did not pay,by any measure or condition,my house payment last month,nor did,or will you ever be allowed or invited by any insinuation to perform oral sexual favors for me,myself,personally,so there is no reason,fashion,or concern that I myself personally should care,worry or give a hoot whether or not you care,concern for,or otherwie give a hoot about what I may or may not have said,insinuated or otherwise hinted at,whether in actuality or in spirit. It is my God Given right to care or to not care,and I do not care if you care or do not care. This is an open internet forum where that NORMALLY,reasonably minded folks come to EXPRESS THEIR OPNIONS,get advice,information or other such reasons,and they are not subject to your personal code of thoughts,rationalizations,or expectations.

YOU are by no means considered to be an expert by any stretch of any words meaning such by myself,I,personally on any subject that I would care to discuss here or anywhere else with you. Your opinions are appreciated as such and will be respected with a similar amount of respect as you have shown,nothing more,nothing less. You do not know it all,nor does anyone believe that you do,should,or ever will. You are simply another brick in the wall full of similar bricks,just as I,myself,personally am,as well as is everyone else here. While I do concede that I myself personally consider some individuals here to be knowledgable and expert on certain specific subjects of matter,this by no means makes them such,again,it is an opinion,belonging to me,myself,I,personally. You sir,are not one of those individuals,but I will neither call you retarted nor stupid,here,anywhere,now or ever...I may think it,but until the Creator of the universe tells me otherwise,that would be my right to do so,if I so choose or had so chosen to do so,though I have not nor will I ever at any time in any fashion here or elsewhere disclaim or express whether this has now,ever or in the future take place,as it may,but it just as easily may not,thoughts are fleeting things.

As a person who is an individual who by no means of statement or insinuation of anykind here nor anywhere else at anytime is even reasonably expected to ever,have ever,or ever be considered by anyone at any time anywhere any kind of an expert on any subject other than that of what works for himself,I,personally,let me say,strongly insinuate and wish a a happy weekend despite all f thiese issues or answers whether they apply to you or not.

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Old 07-05-12, 10:37 PM   #24
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get a steel bike .....

we usually dont need popcorn around here. PC opion is well founded and your opion is also well accepted. No need for this ...ok

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Old 07-06-12, 01:47 AM   #25
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Personally I like steel since it is easy to modify. I am in the process of changing two older detatchable bikes adding braze ons to be able to add several gears (instead of the original two speed kickback) and still keep it easily detatchable and also I am adding the Brompton luggagesystem to all my small wheel bikes. Just got the two back from the welder, now what to do with the alu folder..

I guess if you are into modifying or if you worry about frame breaking "in the middle of no where" you would want steel. Look at sixtys folders, looks like great fun and mine for sure are. If you just want to ride alu should be fine. If you are worryed about a harsh ride just make sure there is room for BA tyres. It should be possible to ask for advice on what bikes are available without having peopel start a war.
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