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  1. #26
    Senior Member badmother's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrysimon View Post
    That's an interesting twist, thanks for posting.

    The potential problem I see is that the Dahon bracket is just bolted to the Brompton lug and not supported i.e. the bolts are taking all the load. The shearing forces with a lot of weight may break the bolts.

    As I am sure you realise, the Brompton block has a recess that fits snugly over the welded lug which provides support with the downward shearing force so it is not taken by the bolts which just keep it secured flush to the lug.

    PS hmm looking at the later pictures I am not sure what he/she is doing with the DIY resin block ? It still looks like all the downward shearing forces are on the bolts ?



    Regards

    Jerry
    I am not thinking of doing this myself but if I did I think I would re drill and tap the holes to 6mm (that Dahon would use) instead of the Brompton 5mm screws.

    Maybe that strange looking plasticy looking substance is solid- and maybe it is atatched to the truss in some way. That would give the support you ask for and you could still keep the 5mm holes.

    I found a "lowrider thingy" that you mount on the luggage block also. Allowed to use two paniers in the front, but since it is mounted on the luggageblock there is a limit to how much you can load on it. Was not sure if it was interesting so I did not keep the link. Now I must look back..

    @ ilynne: Take some time, take a deep breath and do some research. There is plenty good DIY solutions out there. If you want that frame I suggest you find a different way to mount it than the luggagetruss.
    ░Empty drums make a lot of noice... (Old Hungarian proverb).

  2. #27
    Senior Member badmother's Avatar
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    http://www.flickr.com/photos/plooifi...-68401638@N00/ Brompton / Klickfix adapter.

    The adaptor on the right bike here is a better solution than the lugagetruss (if you want to use it on a Brompton) IMHO.

    Edit: Here is a B frame mod, several pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/blank67...-68401638@N00/


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/blank67...omptonfolders/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/3330855...n/photostream/ Brompton / Klickfix adapter.

    http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=brompton+bags Brompton / Klickfix adapter.


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/plooifi...in/photostream Brompton / Klickfix adapter


    http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=brompton+bags Brompton bags


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/guuwatanabe/5499149919/ Look at the frame in his right hand.



    http://www.flickr.com/photos/13134503@N08/2903986245/ "Lowriders" on Brompton.


    http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=brompton+bags


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/wildmoreway/7236920982/ dahon with Brompton luggageblock.


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/7265463@N08/2835378585/ Brompton-like bagframe with clickfix fittings.
    Last edited by badmother; 03-03-13 at 04:49 AM.
    ░Empty drums make a lot of noice... (Old Hungarian proverb).

  3. #28
    Free and Self-Reliant
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    Quote Originally Posted by badmother View Post
    @ ilynne: Take some time, take a deep breath and do some research. There is plenty good DIY solutions out there. If you want that frame I suggest you find a different way to mount it than the luggagetruss.
    Honestly, mounting the Arkel Shoppers to the Brompton(s) is a solution without a problem. The t bag already does everything that I need. If I absolutely HAD to carry more, I have THREE Timbuk2 bags and a SealLine backpack. I have had one situation in the past year and a half where I needed to move a bunch of stuff quickly and using the Arkels was one solution, but not my only solution. ZipCar, Car2Go, and my brother-in-law are also viable resources. I am likely to expend a great deal of energy and/or money coming up with a frame for the Arkel -- only to NEVER actually use it because I have my t bag with me and it will hold that bag of apples and half gallon of almondmilk. The Arkel Shoppers don't hold more than the t bag -- they hold less.

    What I actually need to do is post the Arkels on CL. Someone can use them. They were a gift and they served well. I could keep them and hang them off the Retrovelo, but that bike has a sturdy frame-mounted front rack. I can put a couple of bags of groceries on that rack. I don't even have a rack on Penelope and that bike may stay a "backpack only" bike. Let's say I go ahead and mount one of my racks on it. I'll NEVER ride the damn thing to the grocery store because it's two blocks away and I can walk there with my rolley cart. It's not worth the effort to drag the bike downstairs, ride it, lock it, etc.

    I'm better off that the Arkels don't fit. I don't need them and now I have no good reason to keep them.

  4. #29
    Senior Member badmother's Avatar
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    Sooo:

    Bought the clickfix basket I`ve been eying for some time. Got the cheapest option (as I can be cheap when I want). I am not too keen on the drawstring top on the more expensive one, I think I`ll make a rolltop instead, like I did on our Brompton baskets.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/7783618...in/photostream

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/7783618...n/photostream/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/7783618...n/photostream/

    Also planning a raincower (on the clickfix one) in the future. Quick job.


    This is the clickfix basket, atatched with a Caddy to my sons folder:


    Clickfixbasket3 by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr


    clickfixbasket2 by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr


    Clickfix basket 1 by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr


    It is actually bigger than I expected. I want to use it mainly for light loads- like a jacket, dog leash, water bottle and so on. If I want to load it up more I`ll make something like this: http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=brompton+bags Brompton / Klickfix adapter.
    Last edited by badmother; 03-05-13 at 05:49 PM.
    ░Empty drums make a lot of noice... (Old Hungarian proverb).

  5. #30
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    your son is a lucky kid...

  6. #31
    Senior Member badmother's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    your son is a lucky kid...
    I am a lucky mother. He is the best!
    ░Empty drums make a lot of noice... (Old Hungarian proverb).

  7. #32
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    mutual admiration society i'm sure...

  8. #33
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badmother View Post
    ... This is the clickfix basket, atatched with a Caddy to my sons folder...
    I'm up for adoption... just putting that out there in case you're interested.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  9. #34
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassNotBass View Post
    I'm up for adoption... just putting that out there in case you're interested.


  10. #35
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    Yep badmother I have one too as posted over on the Swift thread




    The bag is not bad for the money and mine came with a elastic rain cover. The fitting works well though I still dislike adding all the weight to the steering when the bag is full preferring a frame mounting system like Brompton/Dahon use. The bag also sits slightly back at an angle rather than vertical like the Brompton one, a function of the mounting block. As you say the bag is a good size but again I think the Brompton open bag still wins certainly in terms of carrying it off the bike when full. The Brompton one also seems to carry a little bit more shopping, though they have the same volume specs so again it might be the shape that makes it better for packing more compactly.

    Brompton shopping bag for comparison. Sorry the image is a little large.




    Jerry
    Last edited by jerrysimon; 03-06-13 at 01:53 AM.
    Brompton M2L (SRAM A2), Brompton M2L(X), Dahon Uno (SRAM A2), Both Swift Xootr & Moulton TSR2 now gone

  11. #36
    Senior Member badmother's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassNotBass View Post
    I'm up for adoption... just putting that out there in case you're interested.
    Adoption- son or Caddybasket?
    ░Empty drums make a lot of noice... (Old Hungarian proverb).

  12. #37
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badmother View Post
    Adoption- son or Caddybasket?
    From what I've read you buy and make your son some neat stuff... I just want in on the action.

    Looks like smallwheeler's jealous that he didn't think of it first.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  13. #38
    Senior Member badmother's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassNotBass View Post
    From what I've read you buy and make your son some neat stuff... I just want in on the action.

    Looks like smallwheeler's jealous that he didn't think of it first.
    Maybe he is just shy, or maybe he is working quietly behind your back, what do you know really..

    Good boys recive good treatment on this adress.

    Like I said, Brompton luggage block:

    Should have worked on a model to post about how I think I would do it on Alu bikes like I promised jerrysimon. Instead I`ve been out riding with my dog. That is going to be a shock for my doctor since I am atatched to some devices to measure my bloodpreassure for 24 hrs and I am told to keep calm and do no heavy work. I`ll give him something to worry about..

    Starting on a model now, finishing and posting tomorrow.

    @jerrysimon: Great pix, thanks for posting. I`ll hurry with the model.
    Last edited by badmother; 03-06-13 at 12:47 PM.
    ░Empty drums make a lot of noice... (Old Hungarian proverb).

  14. #39
    Senior Member badmother's Avatar
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    Suggestion on how to mount a Brompton luggage bracket (for luggageblock) on an alu bike.

    Made a model of how I suggest it should be done on alu bikes- like jerrysimons Swift and my sons black folder.

    This is what It looked like on the steel frame before welding


    Brompton luggage mod by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr

    This is what the model of the alu version should look like before adding the luggageblock:


    Finished, before adding lugageblock by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr

    On an alu bike you can of course use a steel bracket like the ones I made for the steel bikes (first photo), but steel is harder to work with so I suggest a similar massive piece of alu or maybe you can find an U profile rod like I did or a square tube. All three should work v\but plse do comment if you think one solution is better than the other.


    The biggest difference is that it is difficult to find somebody who can weld alu, and do it without damage. Therefor I have decided to try to use T nuts http://t-nut.com/node-16410131-B0002..._T_Nuts_50_Pcs on the innside of the headtube, and sticking out trough two holes in the tube. The flange on the nut is on the innside of the headtube, ensuring nothing is deformed and plenty of hold and threads solid enough to hold the load of the Brompton type luggage.

    After some thinking I have decided that keeping the 5mm screws that Brompton uses may be enough so we need T-nuts for 5mm screws. My T-nuts:


    T-nuts 5, 5 and 4mm by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr

    The two to the left is for 5mm screws. The one to the right is for 4mm. You can see on the nut to the right the "hooks" is flattened. You need to do this to two 5mm nuts.
    ░Empty drums make a lot of noice... (Old Hungarian proverb).

  15. #40
    Senior Member badmother's Avatar
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    Start with finding the exact center front on the headtube of the bike. Draw a line down the center with a fine marker pen.

    Decide where the first hole is going to be. Use a sharp tool to make a small dent in the tube where you want to drill:


    tools for marking by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr

    Drill the first hole. First a small hole, then bigger. I stopped at 4mm for a start.


    Mark where to drill by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr

    Insert a 4mm screw trough the ready made bracket (more about making it later), trough the hole in the headtube and secure with a nut (T or regular) innside the headtube. Tighten with fingers only. Align the bracket along the sharpie line in center of the headtube. Insert a sharp nail, darning needle or similar into the second hole in the bracket and make a small o shaped mark exactely on the line.


    One 4mm screw in place. Mark for the next hole by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr

    Drill another hole in the same way as the first one. If the holes is not in perfect center adjust the hole by using a small round file.

    Then drill the holes out again to be bigger. The "neck" on the T-nut should fit exactely innside the holes so measure them and use the right drillbit- or use a slightly smaller one and adjust with a small round file.
    ░Empty drums make a lot of noice... (Old Hungarian proverb).

  16. #41
    Senior Member badmother's Avatar
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    When the whole project is finished the flanges of the T-nut is going to follow the curwe innside the headtube, so now is the time to shape them. Best is if you have a piece of pipe of same size as the headtube that is split in half. Drill a hole to fit the "neck" of the nut trough and hit with a small hammer on the flange until it has got the same curve as the innside of the tube. Since i just made a model I used a slightly rougher method. I placed the nut here and hit it with a small hammer in the center:


    Untitled by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr

    Also tested out putting a narrow object in the center (a file here but NEWER hit a file with a hammer..).


    Untitled by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr

    The flanges of the nuts came out with curwes good enough for this project:


    Curved profile on T-nut by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr

    Insert the "neck" of the nut from the innside of the headtube out trough the hole, ad readymad bracket with holes just over the necks of the nuts. Screw a 5mm screw from the outside trough the bracket and into the neck of the nuts. Make sure the curve on the nuts flanges is lined up exactely with the curve innside the headtube. Tighten carefully. Sidewiew:


    Finished side view by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr


    Finished 2 by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr

    Not 100% finished yet but this is where there may be different opinions on what is best to do:

    I am thinking that when you have done it right so far and it all looks good it is best to use some epoxy to keep things in place and add to the strenght. The headtube is weaker now that it is drilled trough, but if you glue the flanges of the T-nuts to the innside of the headtube they are now stronger than before you drilled.

    One more thing. Since this is alu and since we are adding quite a lot of weight on the block the screws are holding maybe it is smart to support the tube some more if therhe is space enough. Use a thin sheet of steel and make a rectangel of approx 1 1/2" by 2 1/2". Glue it to the innside of the headtube. Drill trough the sheets where the holes in the headtube is before inserting the neck of the nuts trough the holes and gluing the flanges in place. This way a bigger part of the headtube is strenghtened, not just the area around the holes strenghtened by the flanges. PIX TOMORROW of this part.

    Also: The bracket should also be glued in place on the outside of the headtube and held in place by the two 5mm screws until cured. Then remove the two screws, add the Brompton plastic luggageblock and screw two 5mm screws of the exact right lenght in place and the project is finished- unless you also want to paint it first.
    ░Empty drums make a lot of noice... (Old Hungarian proverb).

  17. #42
    Senior Member badmother's Avatar
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    The ready made bracket: Made to fit snug innside the slot on the backside of the Brompton luggageblock.

    The solid steel one looks like this:

    One 4mm screw in place. Mark for the next hole by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr

    You can make it exactely similar but in solid alu, much easyer to work with. After some thinking I got hold of a 1meter U shaped (square U) and decided to use it. Theis way it is not nescesary to drill holes big enough for the neck of the T nut to slide in there, the hollow space innside the U shape is almost big enough for them, just adjust it slightly with a drillbit of the right size.


    Finished side view by bad.mother@ymail.com, on Flickr

    The hollow space innside the bracket in this type bracket I would fill with epoxy and thereby make it more stable and glued to the headtube.

    Make sure you cower the area around the bracket wit cellotape or similar so you avoid getting epoxy on the frame.

    Any comments or suggestions?

    Do you think it matters what type of bracket is used, hullow U shaped or solid?

    Need more pix or drawings?

    Sorry for the crappy pix but had to do it this way or it would have been delayed or forgotten.
    ░Empty drums make a lot of noice... (Old Hungarian proverb).

  18. #43
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Very cool badmother.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  19. #44
    Senior Member badmother's Avatar
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    thank you. I`ll wait and see if I get any comments on this and then go ahead and do it. I agree with jerrysimon that it is scary to start drilling holes in frames but it should work.

    I know gluing (epoxy) the flanges of the nuts innside the tube is important but do you think gluing the bracket to the headtube is equally important?

    At least with a solid bracket the shearing forces would be between the headtube and bracket. Since the "neck" of the nut is sticking out approx 5mm the effective size of the screw is actually 5mm+ the neck of the nut I think.. Am I right?

    Been toying with using 6mm srews like Dahon/Clickfix do and just the bigger 6mm nuts, no bracket. Is that going to be less stable and therefor weaker? What is the weakest point with that solution?

    Should i just stop thinking, do the 5mm version and take my dog out for a ride in the sun?

    Comments plse.

    Edit: On Epoxy. Strong stuff but important with right mix and inportant with clean surfaces. Several years ago when uppgrading for use some old detatchable bikes with oversized faubercrank shells (heavy stuff, do`nt want it) I decided to cut out modern BB shells from donor bikes. Glued them in the Fauber shells with epoxy. Still holding up . Still that is different since the new shell is trapped innside a bigger shell with epoxy added. The flanges would be helped by tight screws (important) but still I think it should work.
    Last edited by badmother; 03-08-13 at 02:09 AM.
    ░Empty drums make a lot of noice... (Old Hungarian proverb).

  20. #45
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    badmother, i dont know what you do for a living, but you could surely open a weekend shop installing brompton brackets! i think you could streamline the process using something like JB Weld Stick. its an epoxy putty that is designed for metal. i used it at uni when i was building models:



    J-B SteelStik

    Steel Reinforced Epoxy Putty

    • Strength 900 PSI
    • Set Time 5 Minutes
    • Cure Time 1 Hour
    • Cure Color Dark Grey


    Great For:

    • Automotive & Machine Parts
    • Exhaust Systems
    • Plumbing
    • Stripped Threads
    • Rust Damage
    • Household Repairs


    SteelStik is a hand-mixable, steel-reinforced, non-rusting epoxy putty that quickly repairs or rebuilds anything made of metal. After mixing, it forms an industrial-strength polymer compound that can be molded into shapes or used to build up, patch and repair steel components. SteelStik sets in 3-5 minutes and after 60 minutes, can be drilled, tapped, machined, ground, filed and painted. SteelStik cures to a dark grey color, is rated at a tensile strength of 900 PSI and will withstand temperatures up to 300║F.
    INSTRUCTIONS
    Cut: Remove required amount of putty.
    Mix: Thoroughly knead putty with fingers to a uniform color.
    Apply: Press putty firmly to the surface to be repaired.

    * For best results use a detergent or degreaser to first clean the surface, then roughen surface with file or coarse sandpaper to provide the best repair.

  21. #46
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    Agreed this is so impressive badmother and thank you SO MUCH for taking the lead and showing us your work with the great detailed pics

    I like the idea of using T Nuts. I would definitely glue the block to the head tube as well as the T nuts. My concern with not doing this would be the T nut flanges would tear out or worse still tear the hole in the aluminum head tube. To my mind the solid block seems better than the U piece although as you say you then need to drill it out to accommodate the T nut.

    As an aside I assume the welded lugs on the Dahon aluminum frame/head tube are made of aluminum ?





    Interesting that this arrangement seems to have all the shearing force on the bolts over the brompton where the mounting block has a cutout that fits over the lug ?

    I notice from the Tern web site though that it has a 7kg limit over the Brompton 10kg limit.

    Regards

    Jerry
    Last edited by jerrysimon; 03-08-13 at 05:10 PM.
    Brompton M2L (SRAM A2), Brompton M2L(X), Dahon Uno (SRAM A2), Both Swift Xootr & Moulton TSR2 now gone

  22. #47
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Now that I'll soon have a Brompton as my commuter I was looking into luggage/bag options. I ordered my Brommie with the carrier block but didn't opt for any of the luggage because it's very expensive and being a DIY kinda guy I'm sure I could come up with a cheaper solution that would suit my needs better. My solution was to design and make a front mount bag that could be multi-purposed but would primarily be used with the Brompton front carrier frame. I came across this wonderful idea of how to make a nice clean looking panel that would mount the bag securely to the frame yet would still look good if used for another purpose sans frame. There are several pictures of what a bag looks like on and off the frame... a very slick and clean solution IMHO. In fact it also gives me an idea of how I can make my own frame with a little more bottom bag support than what the Brompton carrier frame provides.

    http://www.din.or.jp/~wsho/brompton-e.html
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  23. #48
    Banned. folder fanatic's Avatar
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    I always just love these very creative ideas about what to do about carrying your precious possession on a little bikes such as folders are. Though my own ideas involve as little work as I can get away with!

  24. #49
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by folder fanatic View Post
    Though my own ideas involve as little work as I can get away with!
    "Work" is a matter of perspective. When I was self employed I didn't have a great deal of "disposable" income yet I had the time to make things that I felt were too expensive to pay for. Then I worked as an IT contractor and made obscene amounts of money and had quite a bit of disposable income but worked so much I didn't have the time to make things so I just bought them. I have since found a happy medium.

    Some people just work hard at what they love doing and get paid well so they can purchase what they don't have the time or inclination to make.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  25. #50
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Pencilled out a Modification to my steel Brompton Front rack to extend the load shelf out 9"

    and add a place off the bars for a battery headlight.

    The building materials and the torch(friend's shop in WA) are distant& shipping hookups.

    Or ship it to a bike builder with both..

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