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  1. #1
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    Could use help deciding between citizen and Origami

    We are looking to get two folders for when we are traveling in our RV or Chevy HHR. We think we should get one with gears. Because we will not be using them all that much (on trips a couple times a year ranging from a week to a month), we want to keep the costs down. On the other hand we don't want to buy crap that we can't enjoy. This morning we test rode a Dahon Speed and were highly impressed, but I just can't bring myself to spend $600 each. Unfortunately, the lower cost brands all get either bad reviews, or pretty good reviews. But we can't test ride them. So, here are the three finalists:

    1. The Citzen Gothem II @ $319 plus $20 for fenders and a rack
    2. The Citizen Miami @ $199 - has fenders but rack would be about $20 and bring it up over 30 lbs
    3. The Origami Crane - now on sale in white for $250.

    I LOVE the look and colors of the Gothem. I LOVE the price, look and colors of the Miami. And I LOVE that the Origami (more Dahon looking) is on sale, lightest even with fenders and a rack (included in the price, also.) Actually, I am now leaning most towards the Origami, but it's the company I can find the least amount of info on.

    I'd appreciate your feedback to help make up our minds. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartjanet View Post
    Actually, I am now leaning most towards the Origami, but it's the company I can find the least amount of info on.
    FYI, the owner is active here (Pinigis). He may answer your questions. Both Citizen and Origami have a fair return policy.

    Since you liked the Dahon, another option you have is to wait for good deals on Craigslist.
    Happier than a camel on wednesday.

  3. #3
    HTown
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    Gotham II

    Quote Originally Posted by hartjanet View Post
    We are looking to get two folders for when we are traveling in our RV or Chevy HHR. We think we should get one with gears. Because we will not be using them all that much (on trips a couple times a year ranging from a week to a month), we want to keep the costs down. On the other hand we don't want to buy crap that we can't enjoy. This morning we test rode a Dahon Speed and were highly impressed, but I just can't bring myself to spend $600 each. Unfortunately, the lower cost brands all get either bad reviews, or pretty good reviews. But we can't test ride them. So, here are the three finalists:

    1. The Citzen Gothem II @ $319 plus $20 for fenders and a rack
    2. The Citizen Miami @ $199 - has fenders but rack would be about $20 and bring it up over 30 lbs
    3. The Origami Crane - now on sale in white for $250.

    I LOVE the look and colors of the Gothem. I LOVE the price, look and colors of the Miami. And I LOVE that the Origami (more Dahon looking) is on sale, lightest even with fenders and a rack (included in the price, also.) Actually, I am now leaning most towards the Origami, but it's the company I can find the least amount of info on.

    I'd appreciate your feedback to help make up our minds. Thanks!
    If you live near Houston, I will sell you a brand new Graphite Citizen Gotham II (w/ fenders, rack, bottle, and bag) at discount. I have two Downtubes and would prefer to stick with that brand.

  4. #4
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    Not near Houston but possibly interested

    Quote Originally Posted by HTown View Post
    If you live near Houston, I will sell you a brand new Graphite Citizen Gotham II (w/ fenders, rack, bottle, and bag) at discount. I have two Downtubes and would prefer to stick with that brand.
    I live in Tucson. What are you asking?

  5. #5
    HTown
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartjanet View Post
    I live in Tucson. What are you asking?
    $250. It was delivered 6/27/12 for $431.

    I don't have the box, though. And I'm not really interested in shipping it. If anybody in Houston wants to come over, ride it, and buy it: let me know.

  6. #6
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    Generally speaking, single speed folders are made for short commutes where someone (often in Europe where public transportation is utilized by a much larger segment of the population) rides the bike for a mile to the bus/train, folds it up and takes the bus/train, and then exits and rides the bike for another mile until they reach their destination.

    Although you are probably going to take your bikes for short rides after reaching the campground that might be OK, but only if those areas are going to be flat. If you are going to ride in hilly areas, you'll want geared bikes. Plus, there may be areas just outside the campgrounds that you may want to go, and those could be places where you don't want to drive to, but could be longer or "hilly-er" than what you would want ride on a single speed folder. Unless you know exactly the distances and changes of elevation of every place you will be camping, a geared folding bike will allow for those types of variables without sacrificing the ride like it may on a single speed.

    Single speeds tend to be lighter in weight and fold flatter than geared folding bikes, but the benefits of a geared bike may outweigh those factors, no pun intended.

    Between the Gotham and the Miami, I'd buy the Miami because it has fenders. If you've ever ridden a bike right after it rains, or there are puddles in the road, you'd know why this is important.
    Last edited by MadCityCyclist; 07-14-12 at 10:51 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Pinigis's Avatar
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    Hello, I am the owner of the Origami Bicycle Company, and I am happy to address any questions that you have.

    The Crane is currently on sale for two reasons. First, the white color proved to be in lower demand than our yellow, and second, we have a new 2013 model coming out in a few weeks. The 2013 has several improvements and I believe that we have also made it more aesthetically pleasing, but we have added a few ounces in the process (adjustable height handlebar stem and a steel front fork).

    I want all of our customers to be happy with their bikes, and with their experience with us. So I want you to be fully informed. Here a few photos of our newest products (some are not 100% assembled in the photos). The yellow one is the 2013 Crane.
    F2000-1.jpgf2019.jpgF2021.jpg

  8. #8
    Senior Member JosephLMonti's Avatar
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    Are there other colors for the 2013 Crane?

  9. #9
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    Pinigis,
    Thanks for your prompt response (always bodes well for a company) and the update on your new models. Can you provide the cost per model and also is the "few weeks" due to production and import?

  10. #10
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    Also,Pinigis... for the average sized person in average riding conditions - are the improvements in the steel fork and adjustable handlebar significant? What are the benefits of the Origami over the the Citizen models? It looks like the third picture you posted is a crane with a smaller suspension component - is that right or is it a new model?

  11. #11
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    Sorry, HTown... no Houston connections. If you change your mind about shipping please let me know. Sounds like a good buy for someone.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Pinigis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JosephLMonti View Post
    Are there other colors for the 2013 Crane?
    The 2013 Crane will be abailable in black or yellow.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Pinigis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartjanet View Post
    Pinigis,
    Thanks for your prompt response (always bodes well for a company) and the update on your new models. Can you provide the cost per model and also is the "few weeks" due to production and import?
    Costs are: Crane $289.00, Cricket $339.00, and Mantis $324.00 (those are in the same order as the photos above).
    The time delay was due to changes in production. I felt that it was better to make some improvements and delay production rather than wait and istitute the improvements later.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Pinigis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartjanet View Post
    Also,Pinigis... for the average sized person in average riding conditions - are the improvements in the steel fork and adjustable handlebar significant? What are the benefits of the Origami over the the Citizen models? It looks like the third picture you posted is a crane with a smaller suspension component - is that right or is it a new model?
    Benefits to Origami over Citizen? Hmmm? I do not have anything negative to say about Citizen; I believe that they also offer a quality product. The Origami products differ in that they are all hand-made in relatively small batches. This gives us the flexibility to continually improve our products since we do not have high capital investment in fixed-purpose machinery (such as automated welders and robotic forming equipment). I prefer to have that agility.

    The steel fork just added strength without adding thickness to the fork (it was more of an aesthetic choice than and engineering decision because we could have achieved the same functional results with aluminum but I wanted the more slender look of the steel fork).

    The new model show above is our Mantis. It uses a different suspension geometry that allows the seat to be lowered into a more compact package, but does not work well with a rack or fenders. We decided to compromise and forego the rack and fenders on this model.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Pinigis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartjanet View Post
    for the average sized person in average riding conditions - are the improvements in the steel fork and adjustable handlebar significant?
    The significance of the adjustable handlebar is more for smaller riders who want a lower handlebar position.

  16. #16
    Senior Member JosephLMonti's Avatar
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    @Pinigis - Based on the pix, it doesn't look like any of the 2013 bikes have quick-release hubs. Why did you decide not to spec them on the new models?
    Last edited by JosephLMonti; 07-16-12 at 07:24 PM.

  17. #17
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    Pinigis - I noticed the "folded" measurements of the Crane on your Gallery page. I also see the folded Cricket but no measurements. Are they the same?

    Thanks, Paul

  18. #18
    Lover of ALL things Bike Singlespeed92's Avatar
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    While I don't hav any personal experience with Origami,I've had nothing but pleasant surprises at bang for the buck with my Citizen Miami this year. A bit on the heavy side (relatively speaking,I only have one other folder to compare it too,a cheap Scwhinn,LOL),especially how comfy to ride it is. When we recently (ie: this past weekend) moved into a much smaller space,the Miami was the only bike (aside from my son's 20"er) that came with (others are in sotrage until I buy/build a shed/workshop here). I wouldn't hesitate to buy another,nor to recommend one...I eevn like the colors (which never have much impact on bike decision making for me),LOL! Happy shopping,looking forward to reading what y'all buy and how you lik em
    Surly Troll,Origin 8 CX'er,enough parts to build a few

  19. #19
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    Decided on the origami cranes and will post our experience. They should arrive on Wednesday. The deciding facors were the weight, price and personal customer service via this forum by the owner.

  20. #20
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    We were very pleased with the prompt response and service from Paul at Origami Bikes and elected to purchase two Crane's. The bikes shipped last Thursday (7/19) and arrived here in Tucson this morning (7/24) via FedEx. After the bikes were unpacked we reviewed the fold/unfold video on the Origami website and were soon test riding each. A little tweek here and there and we're ready to go. We always enjoy having bikes along when we travel, but our new vehicles really don't lend themselves to rear racks or rooftop carriers (Chevy HHRSS or Nissan JUKE) so the "folders" seemed like a fun way to go. We'll be doing an extended cross-country roadtrip in the HHR late summer/early fall and will look forward to using the bikes in the various cities and towns we visit. As you can see, the bikes fit with no problem, are easily accessible and leave plenty of room for our other toys, inflatable kayaks and R/C planes. Think a bag or two of clothing will also be onboard. Happy and looking forward to our adventure.
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