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  1. #1
    Cool Guy Training.Wheels's Avatar
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    Citizen Gotham1 or Citizen Miami?

    I'm having trouble choosing between the two for my girlfriend. We'll be riding on flat roads, so I was wondering is there was a big difference in comfort, speed, and overall quality between the two. Weight and portability is not an issue. Also not looking for used Dahon/other brand recommendations, but I appreciate the thought. Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Senior Member badmother's Avatar
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    This place is quiet at the moment, peopel are holydaying I guess. Have not seen or tested any of the bikes so can not tell. A lot of peopel have so search the forums and read what they said.

    http://www.bikeforums.net/search.php?searchid=5969623
    °Empty drums make a lot of noice... (Old Hungarian proverb).

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    between the 2 i will pick a used dahon anytime of the day. citizen bikes are heavy and slow. just nice in looks but quality wise - you decide. just my 2 cents. been there done that.

  4. #4
    Cool Guy Training.Wheels's Avatar
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    Haha. What did I say about recommending me other brands? I'm just kidding. You're right. I just bought 2011 Dahon Speed P8 today as an extra bike so she can just borrow that instead of getting a cheapie.

  5. #5
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmaniqui View Post
    ... citizen bikes are heavy and slow...
    Care to expound on that inaccurate sweeping generalization?

    I chose the Miami over either of the Gotham models because I prefer steel frames and IMHO the Miami offered me more bang for my buck. It's certainly not in the same league as BF or Brompton but it's easily one of the better low to mid range folders I've ridden and it's inexpensive. I've gotten mixed up in impromptu group rides and have never longed for any of my other bikes despite having been the only rider on a small wheeled bike.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  6. #6
    Lover of ALL things Bike Singlespeed92's Avatar
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    I LOVE my Miami It is a bit portly(heavy),but slow? Methinks tht has more to do with the person pushing the pedals (no offense,vmaniqui ,but if the shoe fits... ).

    I bought it earlier this year,folds easily (under 30 seconds folding or unfolding),and everythng works as it should,every time. It's easily one of the most comfy bikes I own out of several genre's of bikes (mtn bike,CX/road,folders,cargo bike,etc) whether short 3 mile rides to the grocery or 30 mile lap around town*,takes up little space** folded...GREAT bang for the buck,I wouldn't hesitate to buy another,or to recommend them-just my 2 cents worth too

    *While I lived in town and rode my bikes EVERYwherethis past year,we were forced to move recently,and now live a bit further out (not quite "in the sticks",but utility,or even safe daily riding doesn't look promising).
    ** See "*",plus we moved into a much smaller place,all the other bikes are currently in a mini-storage rental (until I buy or build a shed/workshop here),but the Miami takes up little room,it's here
    Surly Troll,Origin 8 CX'er,enough parts to build a few

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassNotBass View Post
    Care to expound on that inaccurate sweeping generalization?

    I chose the Miami over either of the Gotham models because I prefer steel frames and IMHO the Miami offered me more bang for my buck. It's certainly not in the same league as BF or Brompton but it's easily one of the better low to mid range folders I've ridden and it's inexpensive. I've gotten mixed up in impromptu group rides and have never longed for any of my other bikes despite having been the only rider on a small wheeled bike.
    what's so inaccurate about my statement. everyone knows how heavy citizen bikes are. i used to have a citizen tokyo. tokyo is the smallest bike they have yet it is so heavy. i decided to sell it and bought myself a used Dahon Boardwalk from CL for $120. the best decision. difference is night and day. dahon boardwalk is also steel yet it is lighter than miami. yet it is faster. between a used $120 dahon boardwalk and a $199 brand new miami - i will pick the boardwalk. just my personal taste.

  8. #8
    hubgears BB49's Avatar
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    Neither, Citizen bikes manage to be overpriced even at a low level.
    For new cheap folders, see Camping World. For used, try a Dahon or Downtube.

  9. #9
    Senior Member edwong3's Avatar
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    Well the OP has long resolved his inquiry but just to chine in, I think a couple of the commentators failed to realize that their alternative choices is not comparing "apples to apples" but "apples to oranges" but I'll leave it at that.

    Happy trails
    Edward Wong III
    2008 Qile Duo VSTII Single Speed 20" Folder (Converted from a 5 speed)

  10. #10
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmaniqui View Post
    what's so inaccurate about my statement...
    You're presenting your opinion as fact not to mention attempting to support your opinion with nonsensical comments such as "everyone knows how heavy citizen bikes are". If you want to be taken seriously at least provide some form of argument based on fact that supports your comment "citizen bikes are heavy and slow". BTW, the Tokyo is not the entire Citizen lineup so please, enlighten us as to why you think the Gotham 2 is heavy and slow.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassNotBass View Post
    You're presenting your opinion as fact not to mention attempting to support your opinion with nonsensical comments such as "everyone knows how heavy citizen bikes are". If you want to be taken seriously at least provide some form of argument based on fact that supports your comment "citizen bikes are heavy and slow". BTW, the Tokyo is not the entire Citizen lineup so please, enlighten us as to why you think the Gotham 2 is heavy and slow.
    The Citizen Gotham 2 appears to be a very nice folder and with it's alloy construction is likely reasonably light as well. I was very close to purchasing this very bike as an upgrade from the Tokyo I purchased a year earlier. I ended up finding a Downtube 9 Silver on Craigslist for $380 - Considering the price of the Gotham 2, rack/fender kit & shipping it would have been nearly what I paid for the Downtube - which appears to be of marginally better quality.
    1955 Green 3 Speed Schwinn Tiger
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  12. #12
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassNotBass View Post
    You're presenting your opinion as fact not to mention attempting to support your opinion with nonsensical comments such as "everyone knows how heavy citizen bikes are". If you want to be taken seriously at least provide some form of argument based on fact that supports your comment "citizen bikes are heavy and slow". BTW, the Tokyo is not the entire Citizen lineup so please, enlighten us as to why you think the Gotham 2 is heavy and slow.
    from CitizenBike.com:
    GOTHAM1 - Weight 26 lbs / 29 lbs w/rack. Frame 20" hand-welded alloy folding frame
    GOTHAM2 - Weight 28 lbs / 30 lbs w/rack Frame 20" hand-welded alloy folding frame
    MIAMI - Weight 32 lbs / 34 lbs w/ rack Frame 20" steel folding frame
    BARCELONA Weight 31 lbs / 32.5 lbs w/front rack 20" curved alloy folding frame with low step-over design
    TOKYO - Weight 30 lbs / 32 lbs w/rack Frame 16" steel foldable frame

  13. #13
    Cool Guy Training.Wheels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmaniqui View Post
    from CitizenBike.com:
    GOTHAM1 - Weight 26 lbs / 29 lbs w/rack. Frame 20" hand-welded alloy folding frame
    GOTHAM2 - Weight 28 lbs / 30 lbs w/rack Frame 20" hand-welded alloy folding frame
    MIAMI - Weight 32 lbs / 34 lbs w/ rack Frame 20" steel folding frame
    BARCELONA Weight 31 lbs / 32.5 lbs w/front rack 20" curved alloy folding frame with low step-over design
    TOKYO - Weight 30 lbs / 32 lbs w/rack Frame 16" steel foldable frame
    Ok, so the Gotham2 is relatively heavy... but is it slow too? Just an honest question.
    http://www.pedalroom.com/member/J-Dogg

  14. #14
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Training.Wheels View Post
    Ok, so the Gotham2 is relatively heavy... but is it slow too? Just an honest question.
    the reason i mentioned that it was slow was because i used to have a citizen bike. i went CL and found a used Boardwalk D6. as soon as i tried it, i could tell the difference in speed. before i sold my citizen bike i checked if i could upgrade the parts. not so easy. so i just sold my Citizenbike. on my first reply, i did mention that it is just my 2 cents since i already had a citizen bike, a boardwalk d6, a boardwalk d7, an A bike, a bike friday tikit, a dahon mu xl, a dahon speed tr and a dahon curve sl. and i will keep my dahon than my citizen bike anytime of the day. here's a picture of my current 21 lbs Dahon Speed TR and my Curve SL:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by vmaniqui; 08-08-12 at 03:09 PM.

  15. #15
    Cool Guy Training.Wheels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmaniqui View Post
    the reason i mentioned that it was slow was because i used to have a citizen bike. i went CL and found a used Boardwalk D6. as soon as i tried it, i could tell the difference in speed. before i sold my citizen bike i checked if i could upgrade the parts. not so easy. so i just sold my Citizenbike. on my first reply, i did mention that it is just my 2 cents since i already had a citizen bike, a boardwalk d6, a boardwalk d7, an A bike, a bike friday tikit, a dahon mu xl, a dahon speed tr and a dahon curve sl. and i will keep my dahon than my citizen bike anytime of the day. here's a picture of my current 21 lbs Dahon Speed TR and my Curve SL:
    OOh. How is that Speed TR of yours? I always see them on Craigslist. Actually, can you make a quick comparison of all your bikes? I'm pretty big on Dahon as well but would like to see how they compare to your Tikit. Thanks in advance.
    http://www.pedalroom.com/member/J-Dogg

  16. #16
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmaniqui View Post
    from CitizenBike.com:
    GOTHAM1 - Weight 26 lbs / 29 lbs w/rack. Frame 20" hand-welded alloy folding frame
    GOTHAM2 - Weight 28 lbs / 30 lbs w/rack Frame 20" hand-welded alloy folding frame
    MIAMI - Weight 32 lbs / 34 lbs w/ rack Frame 20" steel folding frame
    BARCELONA Weight 31 lbs / 32.5 lbs w/front rack 20" curved alloy folding frame with low step-over design
    TOKYO - Weight 30 lbs / 32 lbs w/rack Frame 16" steel foldable frame
    OK, so they weigh at least 10 lbs less than my mountain bike which is far from being slow... so what's your point? Hint, use descriptive sentences... maybe you can include the weights of other folding bikes of various model ranges for comparison to support your opinion.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Training.Wheels View Post
    OOh. How is that Speed TR of yours? I always see them on Craigslist. Actually, can you make a quick comparison of all your bikes? I'm pretty big on Dahon as well but would like to see how they compare to your Tikit. Thanks in advance.
    i love my speed tr. it's just awesome (to me anyway). speed is sufficient (21 speed) and no cross gearings as all speeds are useable. wheels is 20", steel frame and parts can be upgraded easily. i changed the original tires to a kojak and i love how the tire is faster now. i did quite a lot of upgrades on this bike to make it a 21lb bike. i removed front and rear racks, i changed tires to a 1.10 kojaks, i changed seat post to an aluminum post (the original one has the built in pump), i changed the seat to a selle italia, changed the front rim to a kinetix pro (16 spokes), changed handle bar, changed handle grip, changed crankset to a shimano, changed chain.

    dahon - no proprietory parts, can be easily upgraded. can be wheeled easily when folded. magnet may be a challenged as it might come loose. trick is to put a velcro to keep the body together. i always have velcros on my bikes. made in china. steel frame.

    bike friday - no proprietory parts, can be upgraded. advantage to all other bikes - 5 second fold. wide when folded and ok to wheel but quite challenging as you need to balance when rolling since only one wheel can be rolled. made is usa. steel frame.

    dahon mu xl. internal gear. no gear maintenance. when folded it is quite big as it has bigger body and 20" wheels. aluminum frame.

    dahon curve sl - the smallest fold amongst the dahons. 8 speed internal gears and aluminum frame. this is my wife's bike. if i need to do a multi modal commute this is the bike that i will always use as it is small and will not give me any problem inside the bus.

    dahon curve d3 (i forgot to add that i used to have this). fold the same way as the curve sl and frame is the same. lacking in speed as this is only 3 speeds. maybe good for flat terrains.

    dahon boardwalk d6 and d7 - good for someone who is just starting with folding bikes as it got all the basic criteria - enough speed, quite fast, can be rolled when folded, not so heavy, parts can be upgraded. (see my pics below with some upgrades i did to my boardwalk. i changed the RD, cables, crankset).

    honestly, between tikit and tr, i like my tr better.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  18. #18
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassNotBass View Post
    OK, so they weigh at least 10 lbs less than my mountain bike which is far from being slow... so what's your point? Hint, use descriptive sentences... maybe you can include the weights of other folding bikes of various model ranges for comparison to support your opinion.
    folding bike shouldn't be compared to a mountain bike. they are 2 different beasts.

    my Dahon Speed TR weighs 21 lbs.

    on my original reply - i said JUST MY 2 CENTS. my advise was based on my experience with the 2 bikes. i think that is enough and no need to elaborate. i had a citizen tokyo for awhile and had a boardwalk d6/d7. i compared them both on my body's ability to crank up the pedal. i went on the same route. and at the end of the day i can tell based on my assumption that dahon is faster than citizen. we had a speed checker on our street. on my boardwalk i clocked at 20mph and on my citizen i can't even reached 15mph even if i pedaled the same way and even if i pedaled harder. so i guess it has to do with the gearings.
    Last edited by vmaniqui; 08-08-12 at 04:02 PM.

  19. #19
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmaniqui View Post
    ... i said JUST MY 2 CENTS...
    This was correct, you gave your 2˘ worth. Thank you.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  20. #20
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    Citizen Tokyo - cassette/freewheel 14-28T
    Dahon Boardwalk - cassette/freewheel 11-30T

  21. #21
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Training.Wheels View Post
    Ok, so the Gotham2 is relatively heavy... but is it slow too? Just an honest question.

    I don't have the Gotham2 but my Miami is one of the bikes I use to commute to work and ride on a weekly 53 mile ride. My commute time varies slightly but is pretty much the same whether I ride either of my folders (Miami and KHS Mocha), mountain bike, fixie or road bike. However I do the 53 miler in anywhere between ~2hrs 25 min and ~2hrs 35min on my road bike and fixie (depending on weather and traffic conditions)and anywhere between about ~2hrs 45min to ~3 hours on my folders and mountain bike... again, depending on weather and traffic conditions. So is my Miami heavy and slow? No. It may be slightly heavier than even a lot of folding bikes and slower than my road bike and fixie, But it's certainly not heavy and slow.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  22. #22
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmaniqui View Post
    Citizen Tokyo - cassette/freewheel 14-28T
    Dahon Boardwalk - cassette/freewheel 11-30T
    The freewheel/cassette tooth count doesn't mean much alone. You should include the chainring size(s) and true wheel diameters to at least get an indication of gear inches. Add crank arm length if you want to go further and obtain gain ratios.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  23. #23
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmaniqui View Post
    ...here's a picture of my current 21 lbs Dahon Speed TR...
    BTW... Dahon indicates a 33.2 lb weight for the Dahon Speed TR. Maybe it should have been called the Dahon Heavy/Slow TR?
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  24. #24
    Cool Guy Training.Wheels's Avatar
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    That Speed TR is a beauty! You were really able to cute 12 lbs out of that thing? That's impressive, you should make a tutorial, haha - I'd like get my Speed P8 even lighter than it is someday. Thanks for the reviews; how would you say the Curve compared to the Miami?
    http://www.pedalroom.com/member/J-Dogg

  25. #25
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassNotBass View Post
    The freewheel/cassette tooth count doesn't mean much alone. You should include the chainring size(s) and true wheel diameters to at least get an indication of gear inches. Add crank arm length if you want to go further and obtain gain ratios.
    It indicates the gear ratio range 200% vs 273%.
    Happier than a camel on wednesday.

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