I hope no one minds me switching gears here, but I was wondering if anyone has any information on the Steel framed Swift? Are there any differences between the aluminum and steel ones, besides the obvious materials? Anything major that should steer me away from trying to pick up the steel one? I don't mind about the weight differences. I like the idea that the aluminum one has mostly "normal" parts that are not proprietary to the bike only, so I was hoping that the steel one is along the same lines. Any information, and pictures (if available) would be awesome.
Thanks.

You know I just thought of something. At MTBR in the 29er forum, there is a test ride thread, for people that are thinking about buying a 29er bike, but want to feel how it rides. So people post what bike they have, where they are located, and then other member can contact them for a test ride. It's all in the interest of getting more people on a "new" kind of bike. Seems like a nice idea, and it could open up opportunities for new ride buddies. Anyway, is there any interest in doing something like that here for Folders? I am sure that there are other people like me that don't have many or any folder friendly shops that they can test ride one at. Well, its just an idea. I know I would love to get a test ride on a couple of different bikes.

Well, a mis-aligned wheel can't be a good thing. Let's hope that James is right and that a simple truing will address the issue. If the rear triangle is mis-aligned, I don't know if you can do anything about it given Sheldon Brown's comments on frame spacing (and aluminum frames).

http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

-G

There is a post by Stargazer48 where he briefly discusses the steel Swift folder. Perhaps we can get him to pass along some more details.

As you mention above, I recall that the bike is about two pounds heavier--approximately 28 pounds with an internal 7 speed hub or SRAM 3x9 Dual Drive. Other than that, here are specifications available on Jan's website ...

http://www.catoregon.org/hpm/HPM2005.pdf

Good luck.

-G

[QUOTE=flyhi46c] I noticed that even when the wheel is pushed as far as it will go into the drop outs, that the rear wheel is not perfectly aligned with the seat tube. It is slightly cocked. I corrected this by pulling the wheel out of the right dropout by about 1/4 inch and retightening.
[QUOTE]

I don't think you're being fussy at all in being concerned about this, but I want to make sure I understand--is the issue that essentially one of the drop out slots sits further back than the other, such that you can eyeball-align the wheel correctly relative to the chainstays and seatube by having on axle side sit further forward than the other? If that's the case, I wouldn't be thrilled about it, but I could live with it. If instead you're having trouble getting the wheel parallel w/ the seat tube, that's a different story. It may be less of a problem when riding, but it can't be easily fixed.

Right now I'm planning on buying a Xootr next month, so I'm disappointed to hear about this issue. I've also corresponded with someone who discovered a crack in theirs around the seat clamp (top clamp, I think). Are there any other quality control issues people know about?

Thanks,
Jack

I don't think you're being fussy at all in being concerned about this, but I want to make sure I understand--is the issue that essentially one of the drop out slots sits further back than the other, such that you can eyeball-align the wheel correctly relative to the chainstays and seatube by having on axle side sit further forward than the other? If that's the case, I wouldn't be thrilled about it, but I could live with it. If instead you're having trouble getting the wheel parallel w/ the seat tube, that's a different story. It may be less of a problem when riding, but it can't be easily fixed.

Right now I'm planning on buying a Xootr next month, so I'm disappointed to hear about this issue. I've also corresponded with someone who discovered a crack in theirs around the seat clamp (top clamp, I think). Are there any other quality control issues people know about?

Thanks,
Jack[/QUOTE]
Good questions Jack, I just checked it again and I need to pull back the left axle a bit (just over 1/8 inch perhaps) in order to get the tire centered...I CAN get the wheel aligned properly when this is done. And the bike rides true and straight no matter which position I seat the wheel in. It is just annoying to be told this is 'cosmetic' by the owner. Maybe the tolerances are considered within limit, I don't know.

I could insist this is a manufacturing defect, and ask for an exchange, but they told me that they have not sold many of the new batch of Swifts, and don't know if the others are the same as mine. It's a hassle

I test rode one of the new xtoor swift folders here in NYC. The new ones have a different shifter and rear derailleur. I also test rode the older model about a week ago. The old components seemed to "click" between the gears better. The new shifter seems to be a little "mushy" like my dahon jack. I did like the extra room on the grips though. The old model had very little room, and my hand would hang off a little on the twist grip side. As far as the drop outs, I didn't check. The next test ride I go on I'll let you know.

Has anyone else ridden the new version that has a swift now?

I emailed the guy I talked to at the shop and he said:

"They aren't better, just newer. Apparently it's the design for the new stock, and they've replaced the older style."

I also noticed a ticking felt through the pedals in the 3 highest gears when standing out of the seat. I'm not sure if the derailer just needed adjusting or something else was. Anyone have any ideas on that?

Could the wheels be dished wrong?

After a LONG hiatus I just re-entered the biking world with a Xootr Swift (new model) and may be able to comment on a few of these issues. Please keep in mind that I am also a novice with respect to bike mechanics (I'm trying to learn as I go). More disclaimers/disclosures: I'm just a customer (so far, satisfied). I have no affiliation with Xootr or Swift, though I did meet Peter last weekend at the NYC Folding Bike Festival and he struck me as a good guy.

First, the gear shifting. Despite a "tune-up" from my LBS when I first got the bike, I also found the gear shift to be soft and imprecise. Turns out, the tune-up was a waste of money. Last night, I put the bike up on a stand and tinkered with the barrel adjuster (which, BTW, on the SRAM is located near the gear shifter on the handlebars, NOT the rear derailleur) until the shifting became more precise. Now there's both audible and tactile feedback when I change gears (at least, when the bike is on the stand; I still need to take it out for a test ride post-adjustment).

Second, the rear wheel alignment. Yes, my bike has this issue as well, but as flyhi46c noted it's easily managed by pulling the wheel back slightly from the right drop-out slot. Post adjustment, my rear wheel is properly aligned and centered in the frame (not to mention locked on tight; it was a reall PITA getting it off to change tires), so I'm not concerned. In fact, the adjustment was so minor that you cannot tell the wheel isn't sitting against the drop-out just by looking at it because the axel bolts cover the gap.

The use of the non-standard large diameter seatpost is a real pain, because I really like the Performance Bike seatpost rack with panniers than Wavshrdr linked to earlier (I think it was on page 10), but that only works with seatposts up to 31.6" in diameter. I think I can still make it work by using a longer set of screws to attach the clamp to the seatpost. Plan B would be the Dahon-made QR seatpost, but if I use the panniers that come with it I don't think I'd be able to fold the bike. :( Plan C is to use the Gaerlan rack mount adapter (toward the bottom of the Upgrades page) and a standard Blackburn or equivalent rack, though again I'd be concerned about still being able to fold the bike. Hopefully, I'll be able to figure out a workable solution soon.

Mike

On a bike stand, it is easier to pull your wheel into alignment; on the road, it's a PITA. A chain tensioner on each side of the wheel seems to be the most precise (though slowest) way of achieving center alignment. But it's all a matter of what you're willing to put up with.

Since I've never had a bike with rear-facing horizontal dropouts, let me make this a more general question. Is this ( having to center the wheel by putting it further forward in one dropout than in the other ) a common occurrence? Is it something you would see only with lower end bikes? I'm wondering if it's more noticeable here because the Swift uses a derailleur, rather than hub gears or a fixed gear.

As Spambait notes, this sounds like the kind of thing that would make changing a flat on the road a bit more annoying. Other than that, don't know if it's a problem or not. Of course, with vertical dropouts, it would mean that the frame was misaligned, but this seems like it might be different. No matter what bike you get, there's always some little thing that doesn't seem quite right after you've had it for a while.

I plan to drill my rear dropouts (DT) to insert a track style set screw. I'm tired of eyeballing it every time I unbag the bike.

Agreed, some info would be cool..........difference Steel SWIFT vs. aluminum XOOTR, anyone?

A few follow up comments on the Xootr Swift:

The bike is supposedly set up, adjusted, and tested in Scranton PA. before shipping to the customer.
However, I found some problems with the brake adjustment. Also the a brake cable was not properly seated in the shifter housing. The gears did not need adjustment. When you call Xootr, there is only one technician, and although he has been helpful, he probably has less knowledge and experience than the mechanics in your local bike store. This has given me the opportunity to start learning the craft for myself! I purchased a good book on bike maintenance, and found several web sites with excellent 'how-to' advice. I was able to fine tune the derailer/gear system, and upgrade to an 11-32. I got the brakes correctly set too. Unexpected fun.

Going from the 11-28 to the 11-32 is quite a difference. The 11-32 is a much more useful combination for my purposes. The only differences are in the two largest cogs: 24/28 becomes 26/32. This extends the low gear to about 30 gear inches. By the way, I did not need to replace the chain...it is actually a bit TOO LONG for the 11/28 cassette. SRAM recommends 3 chain rivets between the largest cog and the upper derailer wheel...with the 32 cog it is perfect! After replacing the cassette I had eyeballed the rear wheel and observed the slight alignment fault. I decided to not tweek this out...if I get a flat and try to put the wheel back in the same place, it will cause brake shoe alignment problems.

Rode the bike today hands off, trying to feel if there is any tendency to pull left or right...there isn't. So I'm not going to worry about this anymore.

By the way, you can purchase two 50 cent pipe clamps and some rubber strips and clamp your water bottle cage to your handlebar stem...it's rock solid and easy to install.

I still havn't added the bar ends (thanks JSwift for your offer!). Trying to decide what kind..long, short, curved, l-shaped, etc. Having fun, flyhi46c

Here are the actual bar ends, in case you ever change your mind. http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...tegory_ID=5252

My Swift has been out of commission since Monday. The bottom bracket appears to be seized in the bottom bracket shell. Liberal soakings in WD-40 and persistent banging on the wrench with a hammer to try to crack the lockring free have been futile. As a last resort, I will take the bike to my dad's house and have at it with a 350 ft/lb impact gun, which will either rip the lockring cleanly out (preferred), or rip the teeth of the lockring/tool to shreds. I don't know if the bottom bracket seized-up in the shell because of all the wet-wether riding I had been doing, or because the person who installed the bottom bracket forgot to use anti-seize on the threads. Either way, this sucks. I hope to have a shiny, new bottom bracket installed by the end of this weekend. Wish me luck.

Good luck, James. Are you going to use a torch in addition to the air tools?

I had the same problem with my BB on my normal sized fixed conversion. I assume you've tried an extension bar such as a long piece of pipe at the end of your wrench? That always seems to help me with seized/hard to loosen bolts and such.

Good luck.

progre-ss aka James

Ouch, hope you get it fixed. Sorry I don't have any great ideas to contribute on fixing it though.

I spent much of my mis-spent youth biking around offroad, including some VERY wet terrain indeed. I never had any trouble with the bottom bracket at all, so supposing your BB is of decent quality it probably isn't that.

Magnus

You can also use zip ties. This is what I've done. The zip ties are also solid and easy.
Jonathan

Bottom bracket R & R
 

Damn...what a pain removing the bottom bracket on my Swift was! The 350 ft/lb impact gun struggled before almost totally ripping apart the teeth on the lockring, but it still wouldn't budge! So I went at it on the drive-side of the bottom bracket, which came right out without complaint. Once I removed the bottom bracket assembly, I hit the lockring again several times with the imapct gun, and slowly, but painfully, the lockring started to turn, emmiting this really weird ear-splitting low-pitched squeek, which sounded like a cork bing twisted from a bottle, only much more metallic. The imapct gun chugged and hammered-away, while the lockring slowly submitted , turn by turn. Finally it popped out, to my relief, as the tool kept chewing-off bits of the lockring teeth. Whew!

Ok, so what was up with the bottom bracket. Have a look at the pics. 2 things: rust, and dry threads. No anti-sieze compound...not even a trace of grease on the threads. Umm, did someone at the Xootr plant forget to properly prep the bottom bracket threads before installing? I did notice that the lockring was tighter than hell, and wouldn't go-on by hand, while the fixed flange was totally the opposite. Was the lockring intentionally oversized, then the bottom bracket shell heated before installing to give a pressed fit? Whatever it was, it sure didn't seem like it was intended to be removed.

My friend at Xootr quoted the bottom bracket size as 68x107, but warned me to measure it for myself, as the assemblers can and do change specs on bottom brackets to get a proper chainline. The actual size of the bb on my bike is 68x116. So back to Nashbar the UN-53 bottom bracket goes, and in it's place a shiny, new UN-73 68x115 from my local Performance bike shop (Shimano doesn't make a 116mm spindle). The difference betwen the UN-53 and the UN-73 is that the 73 has a hollow spindle (less weight) and a (get this) plastic lockring (less weight, but more importantly, to perhaps prevent corrosion, rust, and siezing in the bb shell).
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/images/shimano%20un73.jpg

The stock bb feels like a stone compared to the UN-73. Quality Shimano stuff...the top-of-the-line model as fas as square-tapered bb's go (and I do mean "go", as they seem to be left-over technology replaced by the Octalink and Isis systems).

To insure a less nightmarish removal in the future, I prepped the fixed flange threads with anti-sieze ($3.79 at Kragen), and water-proof grease on the plastic lockring (anti-sieze might melt it, as it contains petroleum distillates and other nasty stuff).

The new bb spins like the bearings are packed in butter...smoooooth. Oh yeah, now that's more like it. :D

Go is right. I bought a couple of UN-73s for another bike (not my Swift) when Nashbar was selling them cheap. It will get me a longer time before I either have to change cranksets (something I don't want to do, as I like Suginos) to something new or get a Phil Wood BB.

I have noticed something perculiar on the right side of my steel Swift folder. Over the last 5 weeks, the computer sensor that is connected to the fork eventually shifts towards the spoke and begins to rub the magnetic part attached to the spoke. When it happened the 1st and 2nd time, I ignored it. 2 weeks ago, I installed the planet bike fenders and at least 3 times the sleeve unscrewed itself from the fender clip, on the front right side fender stay . This also happened a couple of times on the rear right side as well.
So can I assume that there might more vibrations on the right side causing these parts to move or loosen.

The the bike seems to ride normal. Could there be a frame problem?

Anyone have any idea?

Thanks

Mis-aligned rear wheel
 

I sent an e-mail to Peter Reich about the rear-wheel alignment problem discussed earlier in this thread. Here is his reply

After inspecting a new bike yesterday, I found that while the current batch of frames have a little wider rear dropout spacing than the first run, the rear wheel on the bike I checked was still fitted with a 130mm rear axle, but no spacers. When the rear QR is closed, the dropouts are compressed together a bit, causing the axle to shift if you're not carefull. A 2mm spacer on either side seems to make everything happy again- I passed my finding on to Karl and the factory in Scranton.

-G

Huh? A 2mm spacer on each side or one side or the other? The former makes a huge difference.

I read it as meaning a 2mm spacer on one side. But after reading it again, I'm right back where I started before I read it the first time... hungry!;)