Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Folding Bikes Discuss the unique features and issues of folding bikes. Also a great place to learn what folding bike will work best for your needs.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-16-08, 07:19 PM   #1601
noteon 
Drops small screws
 
noteon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NYC
Bikes: Heavily modified Xootr Swift, Trek 1000SL that's been turned into a brevet bike, two 20" Torker Interurbans
Posts: 2,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, for whatever this is worth, I sort of doubt Peter would go to the trouble of making a steel version if he didn't think it had some benefits.

That being said, I like my aluminum Swift. But I already have two-piece-seatpost envy.
__________________
RIDE: Short fiction about bicycles • RUSA #5538
Learning to wrench better this year—current project: Fixie from build kit
noteon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-08, 07:44 PM   #1602
jur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 6,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The Swift was developed in steel originally, and that is still ongoing. Xootr bought a license to mass-produce it and their material of choice was aluminium due to easier mass manufacturability. Peter verified the frame parameters in the aluminium to make sure it would still work. Some things were modified to suit aluminium, such as seat post diameter and fork legs diameter.

Italics are me filling in the blanks in my knowledge, ie speculation.
jur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-08, 07:58 PM   #1603
noteon 
Drops small screws
 
noteon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NYC
Bikes: Heavily modified Xootr Swift, Trek 1000SL that's been turned into a brevet bike, two 20" Torker Interurbans
Posts: 2,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I really wish it were easier to figure out which Swift is what before buying one.
__________________
RIDE: Short fiction about bicycles • RUSA #5538
Learning to wrench better this year—current project: Fixie from build kit
noteon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-08, 08:01 PM   #1604
BruceMetras
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Rafael, California
Bikes:
Posts: 1,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jur View Post
The Swift was developed in steel originally, and that is still ongoing. Xootr bought a license to mass-produce it and their material of choice was aluminium due to easier mass manufacturability. Peter verified the frame parameters in the aluminium to make sure it would still work. Some things were modified to suit aluminium, such as seat post diameter and fork legs diameter.

Italics are me filling in the blanks in my knowledge, ie speculation.
By 'fork legs' do you mean the front forks? Mine Xootr front forks are steel...
BruceMetras is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-08, 08:01 PM   #1605
poboxnyc
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New York
Bikes: Brompton
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jur View Post
I don't buy any of this alloy vs steel stuff - I have posted a link abbout this before, I'll see if I can find it again. In the above example, the guy is comparing 2 completely different bikes, finds one nicer, and concludes it must be the frame material. But what about all the other stuff? A bike doen't consist of a frame alone. It's like eating an apple and an orange, and concluding the apple is nicer because it has a different skin.
That is an excellent point-- as design exists in a holistic context and not separate from the sum of it's parts. I liked the ride of the aluminum Swift a lot and found it very comfortable-- and the lighter weight is definitely an advantage for a folding bike.

Just to put things in perspective--it's my quoting him that came out too one dimensional--- Jim Langely understands this-- he knows his bikes --- he did say that generally speaking he prefers steel frames and that there are no absolutes as the total design has everything to do with how a bike rides --- even though the Airnmal had 24" tires, the Pocket Rocket Pro with it's 20" tires and steel frame rode more comfortably for him ---and that had more to do with total design than just aluminum vs steel or larger vs smaller tires.

Last edited by poboxnyc; 07-16-08 at 08:09 PM.
poboxnyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-08, 08:23 PM   #1606
jur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 6,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceMetras View Post
By 'fork legs' do you mean the front forks? Mine Xootr front forks are steel...
Oops you're right...
jur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-08, 08:46 PM   #1607
jur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 6,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by poboxnyc View Post
Just to put things in perspective--it's my quoting him that came out too one dimensional--- Jim Langely understands this-- he knows his bikes --- he did say that generally speaking he prefers steel frames and that there are no absolutes as the total design has everything to do with how a bike rides --- even though the Airnmal had 24" tires, the Pocket Rocket Pro with it's 20" tires and steel frame rode more comfortably for him ---and that had more to do with total design than just aluminum vs steel or larger vs smaller tires.
Thanks for the clarification.

As far as I can see, the Airnimal has quite a stiff frame while the BF has a stalky seat tube and handlepost; the latter give a large amount of vertical compliance which the Airnimal with its structural triangles doesn't give. I wonder which Airnimal he was referring to - the roadie has suspension which the Joey doesn't have.

I also find my Xootr Swift very comfortable. It seems quite a remarkable design achievement to have something compliant vertically but stiff torsionally.

But comfort also seems very subjective; Bacciagalupe (sp?) thinks his Swift was too harsh and got rid of it.
jur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-08, 09:25 AM   #1608
xootr swift
Green Party Member gp.org
 
xootr swift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Bikes: http://www.brompton.co.uk/ S12L-X Rotor
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by noteon View Post
Excellent information on the Rotor cranks, thank you. I'll study further and will most likely have more questions.

One question now, though: I can't see past the chainguard. Is that a Q-ring? The RS series doesn't come as a single, right?
The oval Q rings don't fit on the RS4X series because the RS4X has unique 114 BCD round chainrings. My RS4X double set came with a standard 53t non-aero chainring outer ring and a 39t inner. My inner 39t ring is sitting in the oem box in the garage waiting for another project/crankset. My single 53t is on the inner position and my cut to match custom made chainguard on the outer.

I'm certain Rotor can answer technical questions better than I http://www.rotorusa.com/i1-rs4x.shtml or try customer service http://www.rotorusa.com/contact.shtml. Enjoy the happy knees, extra power, lower heart stress, reduced fatigue, spending an extra 5 minutes explaining what the cranks are after you fold/unfold your Swift frameset a couple times and how you have 27 gears not 9 with the SRAM DualDrive the next time you stop at the market.

For more info http://www.myspace.com/xootrswift.

Last edited by xootr swift; 04-03-09 at 08:11 PM.
xootr swift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-08, 10:32 PM   #1609
bikinbob
Cycling Hack
 
bikinbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Bikes: Swift 8 Shimano Hub, Downtube VIII FS, Raleigh SC40, Generic MTN Bike, K2 Cruiser 24
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I BECAME A SWIFT OWNER LAST WEEK!

All it took was a post begging for a bike, and a few weeks later a reasonable offer for a low mileage bike was presented.

I'm thrilled to have made it.

Many thanks to Jur, wavershrdr, and all you modders and reviewers out there.
bikinbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-08, 05:58 AM   #1610
noteon 
Drops small screws
 
noteon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NYC
Bikes: Heavily modified Xootr Swift, Trek 1000SL that's been turned into a brevet bike, two 20" Torker Interurbans
Posts: 2,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xootr swift View Post
My inner 39t ring is sitting in the oem box in the garage waiting for another project/crankset. My single 53t is on the inner position and my cut to match custom made chainguard on the outer.
Aha! I get it. Thanks again.
__________________
RIDE: Short fiction about bicycles • RUSA #5538
Learning to wrench better this year—current project: Fixie from build kit
noteon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-08, 09:31 AM   #1611
timo888
...poet...
 
timo888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic USA
Bikes: bikes
Posts: 624
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am considering the Swift and the Dahon Cadenza. Haven't ridden either bike. The Xootr shop had no Swifts on hand, and I didn't see a Cadenza there or at other Dahon dealers I've visited.

If only Xootr offered a Shimano Alfine hub on a stock model, with the Shimano roller brake, priced competitively vs the Dahon Cadenza, I would go for it.

The internal hub would be more robust when the bike is being transported, and the roller brake would offer better stopping in rain. It could overheat going down a long hill, though, so perhaps a better apples-to-apples scenario would be if the Xootr Swift had disk brakes like the Cadenza.

Last edited by timo888; 07-23-08 at 09:34 AM. Reason: add explanation for preference
timo888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-08, 09:47 PM   #1612
zbicyclist
Dilettante
 
zbicyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago
Bikes:
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Longer rides

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuffydog View Post
I rode a Swift today for the first time, and while I found the handlebars a bit too miniature, the ride was nice...on the flats. I live in the mountains, and found that I ran out of gears going uphill. Is this common, and is there a way around it. My overall sense was that this would be a good bike for short distances, but not so great for a 30 or 50 mile jaunt. Am I not getting something?
I've had mine for a week, and took it up to Michigan last weekend. I did rides of 57 and 52 miles with no problem. It rides like a hybrid, not a road bike or mountain bike.

I got up the dune roads fine in low gear, but these are short and not to be confused with mountains. On the site, they say they can provide lower gears; I believe it's by using a smaller chainring (so you lose higher gears).
__________________
--
Oldest bike: 1970 Schwinn Twinn Tanndem
zbicyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-08, 09:35 PM   #1613
jagatron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jur View Post
The Swift was developed in steel originally, and that is still ongoing. Xootr bought a license to mass-produce it and their material of choice was aluminium [I]due to easier mass
But he must have liked this design, correct? The frameset I bought directly from him was definitely Aluminum. Wish I would have waited for steel and the smaller fold, but that one is going to be much more $, no?
jagatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-08, 10:16 PM   #1614
jur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 6,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagatron View Post
But he must have liked this design, correct? The frameset I bought directly from him was definitely Aluminum. Wish I would have waited for steel and the smaller fold, but that one is going to be much more $, no?
Mine was also aluminium, from Peter, but he gets those from Xootr. Mine was originally intended to be recoated for another person, but that fell through, so I got it in the Xootr livery.
jur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-08, 01:26 PM   #1615
noteon 
Drops small screws
 
noteon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NYC
Bikes: Heavily modified Xootr Swift, Trek 1000SL that's been turned into a brevet bike, two 20" Torker Interurbans
Posts: 2,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Anybody ever solve the bottle cage problem? Since I do out-of-the-saddle climbing, I don't want it on the back of the stem riser. I was thinking of doing something similar to what BruceMetras did with his (image link), only with a side-entry cage.

What I imagine I'd prefer is something slung under the main tube, like I had on my Matrix, only with a quick-release or Velcro mounting of some kind so I wouldn't have to unbolt it every time I wanted to fold the bike.
__________________
RIDE: Short fiction about bicycles • RUSA #5538
Learning to wrench better this year—current project: Fixie from build kit
noteon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-08, 04:15 PM   #1616
Paul Braithwait
Senior Member
 
Paul Braithwait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Carlisle, in England's Lake District, just a few miles south of the border with Scotland.
Bikes: A Bianchi C2C road bike, a steel framed touring bike and a Xootr Swift folder which has made the rest redundant!
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


I am currently using a Rixen/Kaul KlickFix bottle cage adaptor to hold a bottle on the front of the stem riser. This puts it out of the way but I have never had a problem of hitting the cage with my knees (when it was located behind the riser) as I do not ride the Swift out of the saddle. I lowered the gearing, but if the hill gets too steep, I get off and walk - what's the rush? I once overtook a cyclist who was using very low gears to climb a hill but he was travelling slower than I could walk!

The UK agents for Rixen Kaul have ordered a couple of new bar bag brackets that fit directly onto the long stem risers of folding bikes - without the need to use a 'T' bar (pictured in previous photos of my bike). When they arrive I will swing the bottle cage back behind the stem riser.
Paul Braithwait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-08, 04:23 PM   #1617
Dynocoaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pacific Northwest
Bikes: Too many....................
Posts: 3,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Camping World has a water bottle holder that clamps onto the handlebars, stem, seat post and is about $ 6.
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...e-holder/37767
Dynocoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-08, 05:20 PM   #1618
noteon 
Drops small screws
 
noteon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NYC
Bikes: Heavily modified Xootr Swift, Trek 1000SL that's been turned into a brevet bike, two 20" Torker Interurbans
Posts: 2,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Braithwait View Post
I lowered the gearing, but if the hill gets too steep, I get off and walk - what's the rush? I once overtook a cyclist who was using very low gears to climb a hill but he was travelling slower than I could walk!
The spirit agrees, but the body can't tow my kids uphill without standing. When it's just me, I stay seated as a matter of principle (I've had it lowered to 21 or so gear-inches), but I simply can't do it when the trailer and children are back there--and walking the whole rig up is almost impossible at the steepest part.

That Rixen Kaul bottle cage adaptor sounds interesting. A cursory search didn't turn up any online dealers, but I'll come back to it after the kids are asleep--and look more closely at the Camping World gadget, too. Thanks.
__________________
RIDE: Short fiction about bicycles • RUSA #5538
Learning to wrench better this year—current project: Fixie from build kit

Last edited by noteon; 08-03-08 at 05:33 PM.
noteon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-08, 08:55 AM   #1619
noteon 
Drops small screws
 
noteon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NYC
Bikes: Heavily modified Xootr Swift, Trek 1000SL that's been turned into a brevet bike, two 20" Torker Interurbans
Posts: 2,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Anybody else notice this on the Xootr front page?
July 21, 2008 - Coming soon...Front derailleur mounts for the Swift. Stay tuned!
__________________
RIDE: Short fiction about bicycles • RUSA #5538
Learning to wrench better this year—current project: Fixie from build kit
noteon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-08, 09:07 AM   #1620
werewolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Arizona
Bikes: Swift folder, single speed
Posts: 857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Beautiful photo, Paul.

Front dearilleurs - I always favored rear derailleurs only, even on big bikes.

"I lowered the gearing, but if the hill gets too steep, I get off and walk - what's the rush? I once overtook a cyclist who was using very low gears to climb a hill but he was travelling slower than I could walk!"

I'm with you. I think very low gears are stoopid.
werewolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-08, 12:47 PM   #1621
bendembroski
My legs hurt
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Farther behind you than I'd like to be
Bikes: Vaya, Brompton, '73 Schwinn Super Sport, Cresswell Fold-it, '81 Trek 610
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by noteon View Post
Anybody else notice this on the Xootr front page?
July 21, 2008 - Coming soon...Front derailleur mounts for the Swift. Stay tuned!
Yup. I'll be one of the first in line for this, if the solution is reasonable.
bendembroski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-08, 12:55 PM   #1622
jimi8
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
price went up too...
jimi8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-08, 01:54 PM   #1623
Paul Braithwait
Senior Member
 
Paul Braithwait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Carlisle, in England's Lake District, just a few miles south of the border with Scotland.
Bikes: A Bianchi C2C road bike, a steel framed touring bike and a Xootr Swift folder which has made the rest redundant!
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I do think that we tend to get a bit obsessed with gears sometimes. When I bought my Swift, I was not sure if I could cope with only eight cogs and one chainwheel as my touring bike had ten cogs and three chainwheels. In practise I have had no problem with eight gears. I did lower the gearing by fitting larger cogs on the rear wheel (a straight SRAM replacement cassette) but I have never used the top two cogs (7 & 8) on the road - even downhill. The Swift is a great bike and, if you browse previous postings you will see that I have played about with my bike as much as anyone on this forum. However, the Swift is a great riding bike that happens to fold and at some point you have to accept that it will not be able to do all the things a large wheeled (700c) bike can do. It's my favourite bike by far and is always first choice when the open road calls but there is a limit to what you may expect of it - even with all kinds of mods.
Paul Braithwait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-08, 02:01 PM   #1624
Paul Braithwait
Senior Member
 
Paul Braithwait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Carlisle, in England's Lake District, just a few miles south of the border with Scotland.
Bikes: A Bianchi C2C road bike, a steel framed touring bike and a Xootr Swift folder which has made the rest redundant!
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynocoaster View Post
Camping World has a water bottle holder that clamps onto the handlebars, stem, seat post and is about $ 6.
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...e-holder/37767
I bought one of these from a bike shop in the UK about 18 months ago. I no longer use it as it is very bulky and does nothing for the clean looks of the Swift. It does work though.
Paul Braithwait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-08, 02:17 PM   #1625
itsmoot
in cog neato
 
itsmoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Missouri
Bikes:
Posts: 357
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by werewolf View Post
Beautiful photo, Paul.

Front dearilleurs - I always favored rear derailleurs only, even on big bikes.

"I lowered the gearing, but if the hill gets too steep, I get off and walk - what's the rush? I once overtook a cyclist who was using very low gears to climb a hill but he was travelling slower than I could walk!"

I'm with you. I think very low gears are stoopid.
But you could get higher gears too with a front der. Like, say, a 60/48 crankset, which would give you a higher range closer to a fullsize road bike, and give a lower range than the stock Swift for cruizing and uphill. Myself, I intensly dislike adjusting front+rear der combos and in a flat world I'd choose the single der for the rear wheel. But my world isn't flat and has large wrinkles (my world, not me - yet). So I often wish I had a wider range on my Swift. I say bring on the front derailleur mount and thank you very much to Xootr. I'll probably use an old Suntour Pro friction lever for the front, easier to dial out cage rub. Once you get used to it anyway.

YMMV, just my $0.02, I'm just sayin', etc.
itsmoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:07 PM.